What went wrong last year?

[liam]

Kemba was like Kyrie this year in and out of the lineup.

[Roy H.]

Our line up continuity was not great this season, we still had injuries, but it was way better.  A. Horford, .M. Smart, .J. Brown, .J. Tatum, .R. Williams III played 443 minutes in 34 games. A lot of this came at the end of the season which helped.  It allowed the core team to come together, to "click".  Last season that never happened.

This surprises me.  There were 48 games when one of our starters was missing this season?

It makes sense, I guess.  Timelord missed 21 games, Jaylen 16, Horford 13, Smart 11, and Tatum 6.  Looking back at the season, though, the team has played so well that it's easy to overlook those missed games.

[sgrogan]

Roster construction and talent was by far the greatest factor.  The team not only has more talent this year, but the roster is set up a lot better.

Having Horford is a big addition, but I think more could have been done with our roster last year.

Why didn't Brad use Timelord / Theis together, or go with another two-big lineup?  Why wasn't Kemba brought off the bench?

Our best lineup might have been:  Smart - Brown - Tatum - Theis - Timelord

We saw that starting lineup exactly zero times during the season.  In fact, I'm not sure if Brad tried that lineup at all; if he did, it was for fewer than 17 minutes throughout the entire season.  And, it's not like it would have been obviously ineffective:  in Timelord's starts we went 10-3.

I think that Ime saw something that a burnt out Brad Stevens just didn't.

I think heath was #1 and the players tuning out Brad was #2.

Its not like Brad didn't preach defense and ball movement. We had some pretty good defenses under his tenure.
The difference was the roster. Under Brad we had to continually hide a shoot first PG. Under the PBS/Ime regime it was defense and ball movement or else. The whole roster was constructed defense first. If you don't play defense we loose. After that was made clear with no IT/Kyrie/Kemba bailouts the offense needs to play together to contend.

I think, as painful as it was, last year was good for the J's. They could go off and score as much as they wanted and loose.
Previously they had played well when the "stars" we're out. I think they learned what being a star and winning really means.

Or I could just be giddy after a BKN sweep.

It's impossible to know for sure, but I think that if Ime had last year's roster, we would have seen some differences.  Perhaps not enough to make us into a contender, but I do think he would have coached the team like he has this year's version.  I think we would have seen Kemba off the bench, I think we would have gone to a Theis / Timelord lineup.  I'm not quite sure how he would have handled Tristan Thompson, but I can't imagine he would have played a ton without an attitude adjustment.

I also think Ime might have been more critical of the Fournier trade. Brad wanted shooters; it was a constant refrain.  Danny wanted shooters, as well.  Ime?  He doesn't really care all that much.  I think he would have told Danny not to bother bringing in Fournier, because he wouldn't see time.  At the same time, I can see him being a lot more "all-in" on Aaron Gordon.

I think its related to the change in voice. Brad needed a shooter to make Danny's roster work. Ime was a new voice. Defense first, ball movement, everything else be [dang]ed. Brad can't do that 5+ years in. IMe can and PBS complied/facilitated with the roster.
But your right, we are down scorers so trade Shroeder (3rd leading scorer) for White (Smart clone).

[Vermont Green]

Roster construction and talent was by far the greatest factor.  The team not only has more talent this year, but the roster is set up a lot better.

Having Horford is a big addition, but I think more could have been done with our roster last year.

Why didn't Brad use Timelord / Theis together, or go with another two-big lineup?  Why wasn't Kemba brought off the bench?

Our best lineup might have been:  Smart - Brown - Tatum - Theis - Timelord

We saw that starting lineup exactly zero times during the season.  In fact, I'm not sure if Brad tried that lineup at all; if he did, it was for fewer than 17 minutes throughout the entire season.  And, it's not like it would have been obviously ineffective:  in Timelord's starts we went 10-3.

I think that Ime saw something that a burnt out Brad Stevens just didn't.

That line up played a total of 4 minutes and was -2.  Robert Williams did start 13 games but never the exact line up you state.  In fact, the Celtics used 37 different starting line ups through the season.  They just couldn't keep people on the court.  Langford started two games in the playoffs which is never a good sign.

I don't think Brad Stevens was the problem.  The team was poorly constructed and could keep the core players on the court.  I don't think by playing Walker less and Theis more, it makes the team any better.  Smart started 45 games, more than Kemba.  Or you could say more RWilliams and less Thompson but that doesn't change things enough either.

[jambr380]

People bringing up roster construction aren't taking into account the fact that the team had just gone to the ECF in 2020 and probably would have at least gone to the Finals with a healthy Hayward. It's fun to discredit and Kemba and hold Al on a pedestal, but it's a little disingenuous to say that the roster simply wasn't good enough. In 2020, we swept Al and the Sixers in the 1st round.

I believe Bubble burnout was definitely a thing, especially with all of the back-to-backs we had last year in the condensed season. This especially didn't help Kemba since he always sat on b-2-bs. Tristan Thompson sucked, but it's not like he single-handedly brought down our franchise. I also would love to have a player like Fournier on this roster right now. We essentially have no viable back-up wings.

I think there is something to the players needing a new voice and Ime has been able to get through to the players. Credit to Brad for hiring the right guy. No longer really having to deal with [serious] Covid has also been helpful. Didn't we have [by far] the most games lost to Covid last season?

[colincb]

How did a team that made the ECF Finals in 2020, and which is a co-favorite for the title this year, flounder so much last season?  We started 8-3, and then concluded the season on a 28-33 run, including 4-9 in our last 13.

Almost all poor seasons can be attributed to one or more of the following:

Personnel
Coaching
Health
Effort
Chemistry

I don't have a good sense on where I'd attribute the most fault. 

Certainly, our roster is better this year.  The upgrade from Tristan Thompson to Al Horford is huge, and Pritchard has been able to replace a lot of what Kemba gave us in terms of outside shooting combined with better defense.  Still, the personnel wasn't terrible last year.  We still had JB, JT, Smart, Timelord, Grant, Pritchard.  We started the year with Theis, Teague and Javonte Greene.  On paper, our team was certainly better than a .500 squad.

Health is seemingly a big one.  We missed more Covid games than any other team, and we know that both Tatum and Fournier were physically affected by lingering symptoms.  We used 37 different starting lineups, in 72 total games.  The Jays only started together something like 51 times, meaning there were 21 times when one or both were out.  But, even with Tatum and Brown, we struggled to reach much above .500.

Coaching, chemistry and effort all seem tied together to some degree.  Brad admitted that he was feeling burnout.  How much did that impact the team?  There were reports of locker room discord, particularly centered around Tristan Thompson.  Players weren't playing as hard as we've seen this year, particularly Marcus Smart; even his defense was often mediocre.

So, how do we allocate the "pie chart of blame"?  Very roughly, I'd estimate:

Personnel - 15%
Coaching - 25%
Health - 35%
Effort -15%
Chemistry - 10%

60% health, 30% personnel, and 10% chemistry & effort with TT being the chief culprit. Stevens was a very good coach and has been a very good GM (although I think Danny had something to do with Al's return).

[slamtheking]

my hot take:
- part of it was roster construction --> players that were not contributing at the level we needed.  that was pretty much everyone.  Thompson and Teague looked like solid signings but were busts.  Kemba provided nothing.  Fournier was a bust.  all of the young players regressed - Tatum, Brown, Smart.  Langford couldn't stay healthy again.  GWill was hideous last year.  only thing that wasn't a disappointment was Pritchard.
- Team looked like it had tuned out Brad.  nothing he did made a difference to get better play out of anyone.  couldn't play effective offense or defense.

the change to the second half this year is the roster changes and EVERYONE playing at a much better level.  everyone seems to be really dialed in.  even JRich, Schroder and Romeo were playing in the system before they were traded.   only issues with the team right now are playable depth on the bench and White having a horrible shooting season.

[Moranis]

People bringing up roster construction aren't taking into account the fact that the team had just gone to the ECF in 2020 and probably would have at least gone to the Finals with a healthy Hayward. It's fun to discredit and Kemba and hold Al on a pedestal, but it's a little disingenuous to say that the roster simply wasn't good enough. In 2020, we swept Al and the Sixers in the 1st round.

I believe Bubble burnout was definitely a thing, especially with all of the back-to-backs we had last year in the condensed season. This especially didn't help Kemba since he always sat on b-2-bs. Tristan Thompson sucked, but it's not like he single-handedly brought down our franchise. I also would love to have a player like Fournier on this roster right now. We essentially have no viable back-up wings.

I think there is something to the players needing a new voice and Ime has been able to get through to the players. Credit to Brad for hiring the right guy. No longer really having to deal with [serious] Covid has also been helpful. Didn't we have [by far] the most games lost to Covid last season?

The current team has a lot more talent than the team in 2021 had.  The Nets were also a much better team last year than they were this year, which also helps. 

[Roy H.]

Stevens was a very good coach and has been a very good GM (although I think Danny had something to do with Al's return).

I agree that Stevens was a very good coach for most of his tenure here, and to date has been effective as a GM.  He deserves credit for both.

But, I think last year was different.  At the very least, he didn't get the most out of his team.  Even our most energetic guys -- like Smart -- were dogging it, and Brad never seemed to make any effective adjustments.  It seemed like there were some fairly obvious adjustments that he could have made (i.e., making Kemba a sixth man and focusing on defense, like Ime did).

[jambr380]

People bringing up roster construction aren't taking into account the fact that the team had just gone to the ECF in 2020 and probably would have at least gone to the Finals with a healthy Hayward. It's fun to discredit and Kemba and hold Al on a pedestal, but it's a little disingenuous to say that the roster simply wasn't good enough. In 2020, we swept Al and the Sixers in the 1st round.

I believe Bubble burnout was definitely a thing, especially with all of the back-to-backs we had last year in the condensed season. This especially didn't help Kemba since he always sat on b-2-bs. Tristan Thompson sucked, but it's not like he single-handedly brought down our franchise. I also would love to have a player like Fournier on this roster right now. We essentially have no viable back-up wings.

I think there is something to the players needing a new voice and Ime has been able to get through to the players. Credit to Brad for hiring the right guy. No longer really having to deal with [serious] Covid has also been helpful. Didn't we have [by far] the most games lost to Covid last season?

The current team has a lot more talent than the team in 2021 had.  The Nets were also a much better team last year than they were this year, which also helps.

Yeah, the Nets for sure were much better - it's not even close - but I don't know about our overall talent. Seems to me it was more a matter of getting the pieces to fit. I think Kemba's time in Boston is criminally underrated around here and Fournier was easily as 'valuable' as White. Perhaps you can say that our current players are finally taking it to the next level, but Jaylen was an All-Star and Tatum started the All-Star game in 2021.

We were limping into the playoffs, so I don't think a comparison can be made there. We were giving huge minutes to Langford, Nesmith, Pritchard, and Jabari Parker. It's too bad Ime hasn't been able to do a better job at incorporating our young players into the rotation this year. Other than Grant, it almost seems like they've gone backwards.

[libermaniac]

With Kemba in the lineup everybody had to move up a slot. So instead of having size/length at each position we were undersized. With Al allowing us to play a 2 big lineup, everybody moved back down to their normal slots and now we have length.

[moiso]

People bringing up roster construction aren't taking into account the fact that the team had just gone to the ECF in 2020 and probably would have at least gone to the Finals with a healthy Hayward. It's fun to discredit and Kemba and hold Al on a pedestal, but it's a little disingenuous to say that the roster simply wasn't good enough. In 2020, we swept Al and the Sixers in the 1st round.

I believe Bubble burnout was definitely a thing, especially with all of the back-to-backs we had last year in the condensed season. This especially didn't help Kemba since he always sat on b-2-bs. Tristan Thompson sucked, but it's not like he single-handedly brought down our franchise. I also would love to have a player like Fournier on this roster right now. We essentially have no viable back-up wings.

I think there is something to the players needing a new voice and Ime has been able to get through to the players. Credit to Brad for hiring the right guy. No longer really having to deal with [serious] Covid has also been helpful. Didn't we have [by far] the most games lost to Covid last season?

The current team has a lot more talent than the team in 2021 had.  The Nets were also a much better team last year than they were this year, which also helps.

Yeah, the Nets for sure were much better - it's not even close - but I don't know about our overall talent. Seems to me it was more a matter of getting the pieces to fit. I think Kemba's time in Boston is criminally underrated around here and Fournier was easily as 'valuable' as White. Perhaps you can say that our current players are finally taking it to the next level, but Jaylen was an All-Star and Tatum started the All-Star game in 2021.

We were limping into the playoffs, so I don't think a comparison can be made there. We were giving huge minutes to Langford, Nesmith, Pritchard, and Jabari Parker. It's too bad Ime hasn't been able to do a better job at incorporating our young players into the rotation this year. Other than Grant, it almost seems like they've gone backwards.

I agree with you in that I think it's mostly intangible factors that have caused the improvement.  We're still built around a lot of the same core.  The bubble burnout was a definite factor, even for Stevens.

There are a lot of factors that have improved us, but I'm going to give the biggest chunk of the credit to the players, especially Tatum and Smart.  It seems like after that players only meeting, all of our players started playing exactly the way we could only dream that they would play.  Everyone's effort has stayed elevated.  It was obvious after Smart called out the Jays for not passing the entire team suddenly became very unselfish.  Tatum started looking to share the ball and has since become an excellent passer.  This to me is the biggest factor because Tatum didn't have to buy in to the extent that he has.  He's setting the example for the rest of the team.  Smart has been the best version of himself since that meeting.  Everyone has been 100% accountable.  Guys like Horford and Udoka have added a lot, but we wouldn't be nearly this good if the guys from last year didn't start playing their ideal games.

[liam]

I think the biggest factor was the Horford for Kemba trade. It changed us from an offensive focus to a defensive focus and the defense is more steady. The offense comes and goes but the defense is steady. We beat the Nets with steals in the first 3 games.

[Vermont Green]

Our line up continuity was not great this season, we still had injuries, but it was way better.  A. Horford, .M. Smart, .J. Brown, .J. Tatum, .R. Williams III played 443 minutes in 34 games. A lot of this came at the end of the season which helped.  It allowed the core team to come together, to "click".  Last season that never happened.

This surprises me.  There were 48 games when one of our starters was missing this season?

It makes sense, I guess.  Timelord missed 21 games, Jaylen 16, Horford 13, Smart 11, and Tatum 6.  Looking back at the season, though, the team has played so well that it's easy to overlook those missed games.

I think part of the key to this was that 26 of those 34 starts for this line up came after 1 Jan 2022.  The continuity was late but it finally did come and clearly corresponded to the Celtics playing by for their best basketball.  Schroder started 25 games and GWill started 21 games.  6 others started at least on game.  In 2020-21, 19 different players started at least 1 game.

[Phantom255x]

The defense last year was IMO not great, and our bench just wasn't providing much help. G-Will had a down year. And it was kind of hard to just hide/mask those deficiencies especially against great teams.

But look this year. Horford has been a huge help, G-Will has become Batman, Pritchard is balling off the bench, and the overall team just looks so much more engaged and better on the defensive end in particular.

Here's a clip of Tatum's defense in 2021 against BKN in the playoff series. Contrast that to how he looked this year. That's another massive improvement.

https://twitter.com/JoeGiza/status/1519120297000980481?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet