Tatum Has Entered the MVP Race

[Moranis]

And to be clear, Booker is no where near the defender Tatum is so even if the statistical numbers were close, Tatum is just better than Booker. 

If the season ended today my MVP vote would be:

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid
Tatum
Doncic
DeRozan

[Vermont Green]

Does CP3 get too much credit for what is happening in PHO? Does Booker get too little? Does Bridges (14ppg 63% TS% All-Defense) and Ayton (17ppg 10reb) get too little? Does their bench (Payne, C.Johnson, McGee) get too little?

I say yes to each one of those.

Agreed.  CP3 makes a difference, but every one of those players is integral.  If anything, they just showed that they're an elite team even without Paul.

There are parallels between the Suns/Booker and the Celtics/Tatum.  I view Tatum as a better overall player than Booker and a more "valuable" player, but I am a Celtics fan.  I suspect the rest of the world of fans sees them more on par and both behind the upper tier of stars that includes (in no particular order):

Durant
Harden
Embiid
Giannis
Jokic
James

I think a major changing of the guard is eminent though.  Harden and James in particular may be starting to wear out.  Durant has had persistent durability issues.  Embiid could break at any point it seems.  Giannis and Jokic are likely not going anywhere anytime soon but there is still room for the likes of Tatum, Doncic, and Booker (and a few others) to move up into some of those upper elite top spots.  Just not right now or for this round of the MVP.

The numbers don't bear that out.  Bridges has by FAR the best on/off differential per 100 on the Suns at +9.0.  Booker is just +2.9 and Paul is only slightly better at +3.0.  Tatum on the oth is an elite +13.6.  He has only missed 4 games and Boston went 2-2 (which is actually better than Boston historically does when Tatum sits).  Of the rest of the starters for the C's, Smart is +5.6, Rob is +5.5, Brown is +5.5, and Horford is +3.1.  Tatum is not only unquestioned as Boston's best player, the team also plays its best when he is on the floor, and does poorly when he sits. 

So the numbers absolutely support that Tatum is a more valuable to Boston than Booker is to the Suns, and Tatum has better numbers and has played more games.  Tatum should clearly be ahead of Booker for post season awards and on the all nba team.  It isn't really close.

I am not sure I understand what you are disagreeing with.  I said I thought Tatum was the better player but that a casual fan in Nebraska may see Tatum as less of a star than I do.

Booker is the leading scorer on the winningest team in the league.  I don't think he is better than Tatum, but I think he is good.  I see all your on/off stats and I don't ignore those but they are only 1 indicator.  Booker is a star player on a good team.

I actually wonder if PHO as a team is even as good as MIL, PHI, BKN, and BOS, but PHO is a good team, very balanced, very deep.  And until Paul got hurt, they had their core team together a lot (PHO starters 638 min vs BOS starters 443 min), which helps the team record a lot.

[LilRip]

He’s definitely in the MVP race. But he can’t win it.

Call me old fashioned but when it comes to an award like MVP, I value winning a lot more than in the other categories. I think the MVP should come from a team with like, at least a top 3 record or something. Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis are having terrific seasons but I kinda hate that they’re front runners for MVP because their teams are “middle of the pack” among winning teams.

I haven’t followed the NBA closely enough this year but I would prefer someone from the Suns wins it, like a Devin Booker or even a CP3 (assuming he plays enough games).

[smokeablount]

The NBA.com MVP Ladder just moved Tatum up to 4th and you can’t really ask for more than that. Even if the Celts moved up to first in the East, 4th behind Jokic, Embiid and Giannis might be as good as it gets.

I’m very pleased with this development. Hopefully this translates to All NBA 1st or 2nd team.

[gouki88]

The NBA.com MVP Ladder just moved Tatum up to 4th and you can’t really ask for more than that. Even if the Celts moved up to first in the East, 4th behind Jokic, Embiid and Giannis might be as good as it gets.

I’m very pleased with this development. Hopefully this translates to All NBA 1st or 2nd team.

4th is a very good spot all things considered.

[Donoghus]

The NBA.com MVP Ladder just moved Tatum up to 4th and you can’t really ask for more than that. Even if the Celts moved up to first in the East, 4th behind Jokic, Embiid and Giannis might be as good as it gets.

I’m very pleased with this development. Hopefully this translates to All NBA 1st or 2nd team.

4th is a very good spot all things considered.

Absolutely.  Especially when you consider what pre January 1, 2022 was like.

[gouki88]

The NBA.com MVP Ladder just moved Tatum up to 4th and you can’t really ask for more than that. Even if the Celts moved up to first in the East, 4th behind Jokic, Embiid and Giannis might be as good as it gets.

I’m very pleased with this development. Hopefully this translates to All NBA 1st or 2nd team.

4th is a very good spot all things considered.

Absolutely.  Especially when you consider what pre January 1, 2022 was like.

Pretty sure some around here were openly wondering whether he was even an All-NBA 3rd team guy

[footey]

The NBA.com MVP Ladder just moved Tatum up to 4th and you can’t really ask for more than that. Even if the Celts moved up to first in the East, 4th behind Jokic, Embiid and Giannis might be as good as it gets.

I’m very pleased with this development. Hopefully this translates to All NBA 1st or 2nd team.

4th is a very good spot all things considered.

Absolutely.  Especially when you consider what pre January 1, 2022 was like.

Pretty sure some around here were openly wondering whether he was even an All-NBA 3rd team guy

He wasn’t first half of season. Shows how far he has come since.

[SHAQATTACK]

If he can lead his team to top of the East cof. In 3 months time , he dang well should be in the conversation.

[Csfan1984]

He needs a big finish and for the C's to get the 1 seed. So more 36/7/6 type games on great shooting. Maybe one more 50 pt game. No more loses for the team. That's how he can grab the MVP.

[dannyboy35]

Okay hear me out

I think perhaps he has less of a chance, because he's on a TEAM team.

We're kicking the snot outta people because we've played gorgeous team basketball. Yes Tatum has been the best player on our team. Yes you could make a case that right now he's the best player, on the best team. By a mile too. Not even close.

But I can sure imagine people not voting for him because he'd be in content "because the Celtics are winning".

8th in points per game. 45th in assists. 31st in rebounds.

Someone like Luka is above him in every single category ... on a bad team ... and has them in virtually the same position as the C's.

Arguably, that makes Luka a better player; he's making a "bigger difference" than Tatum is.

Does that make sense?

So, I'd say he's in the discussion, but probably not in it.

  This exactly. If you think Tatum could do with that squad that Luka does otherwise he’s not winning mvp. But it’s awesome how he’s playing and he’s getting better and better. I can’t believe Luka is doing what he does at that weight. Scary.

[nickagneta]

Thought this as good a place as any to post.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33691939/lowe-10-nba-things-joel-embiid-dimes-ridiculous-lobs-luka-doncic-truth-nikola-jokic-defense

4. Jayson Tatum is toying with the game
Tatum has reached that nirvana where every one of his skills is peaking at once, amplifying each other in ways he might never have imagined.

Since Dec. 1, Tatum ranks as one of the league's most efficient pick-and-roll ball handlers and post-up players, per Second Spectrum. In that stretch, the Boston Celtics has poured in 1.14 points per chance when Tatum sets a ball screen -- fourth among 242 players who have set at least 100 picks over that span.

Tatum has leaned into two-man games with Derrick White and Marcus Smart -- the Celtics most often defended by opposing point guards. Switch, and he bullies that mismatch. Double, and you're unleashing Tatum's playmaking. Drop back, and Tatum rains pull-up fire. Overplay that pull-up, and Tatum dusts you off the bounce. He has answers for any scheme.

Apex players use the breadth of their skill to manipulate defenses, almost toying with them. When you are an all-consuming threat, defenses react to every move -- every cut, glance, shoulder fake. Such power.

But the best defenses don't just wait for you to dictate terms. They adjust on the fly, spring traps, blitz, zone up. The rare players at Tatum's level have the luxury of knowing they can react to whatever they see. What a comfort that must be: Throw whatever you want at me; I'll think of the answer on the spot, because I have them all.

The most meaningful leap has been in Tatum's passing. He is getting off the ball earlier when he should, confident he'll get it back if the Celtics keep swinging it. He is rifling passes to shooters when their defenders are still lurching in his direction.

When Tatum maintains his dribble, it is with purpose:


Tatum sees Daniel Gafford clogging the lane, and Ish Smith underneath the rim. Tatum could hit Daniel Theis for a trey, or swing to Payton Pritchard -- scorching for months -- in the right corner. Tatum could flick that pass anytime, but anticipates Theis' cut -- and how that cut will occupy Smith. As soon as Theis hits the foul line, the ball is gone.

That is the perfect combination of patience and urgency -- slow until the second Tatum needs to go fast.

Tatum has flashed this vision for years -- one quarter here, another five-minute segment there. It's constant now, and Tatum will be a constant first-team All-NBA contender.

Had Tatum made All-NBA last season, his max extension -- signed before last season, but kicking in for this one -- would have included an additional $32.6 million. He barely missed. He's a lock to make it this season -- the first year in that mega extension. Why shouldn't he remain eligible for that bonus? Why should criteria be backward-looking only for players entering their primes?

Every cap fix is complex, but this seems worthy ground for negotiation.

[celticsclay]

Thought this as good a place as any to post.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33691939/lowe-10-nba-things-joel-embiid-dimes-ridiculous-lobs-luka-doncic-truth-nikola-jokic-defense

4. Jayson Tatum is toying with the game
Tatum has reached that nirvana where every one of his skills is peaking at once, amplifying each other in ways he might never have imagined.

Since Dec. 1, Tatum ranks as one of the league's most efficient pick-and-roll ball handlers and post-up players, per Second Spectrum. In that stretch, the Boston Celtics has poured in 1.14 points per chance when Tatum sets a ball screen -- fourth among 242 players who have set at least 100 picks over that span.

Tatum has leaned into two-man games with Derrick White and Marcus Smart -- the Celtics most often defended by opposing point guards. Switch, and he bullies that mismatch. Double, and you're unleashing Tatum's playmaking. Drop back, and Tatum rains pull-up fire. Overplay that pull-up, and Tatum dusts you off the bounce. He has answers for any scheme.

Apex players use the breadth of their skill to manipulate defenses, almost toying with them. When you are an all-consuming threat, defenses react to every move -- every cut, glance, shoulder fake. Such power.

But the best defenses don't just wait for you to dictate terms. They adjust on the fly, spring traps, blitz, zone up. The rare players at Tatum's level have the luxury of knowing they can react to whatever they see. What a comfort that must be: Throw whatever you want at me; I'll think of the answer on the spot, because I have them all.

The most meaningful leap has been in Tatum's passing. He is getting off the ball earlier when he should, confident he'll get it back if the Celtics keep swinging it. He is rifling passes to shooters when their defenders are still lurching in his direction.

When Tatum maintains his dribble, it is with purpose:


Tatum sees Daniel Gafford clogging the lane, and Ish Smith underneath the rim. Tatum could hit Daniel Theis for a trey, or swing to Payton Pritchard -- scorching for months -- in the right corner. Tatum could flick that pass anytime, but anticipates Theis' cut -- and how that cut will occupy Smith. As soon as Theis hits the foul line, the ball is gone.

That is the perfect combination of patience and urgency -- slow until the second Tatum needs to go fast.

Tatum has flashed this vision for years -- one quarter here, another five-minute segment there. It's constant now, and Tatum will be a constant first-team All-NBA contender.

Had Tatum made All-NBA last season, his max extension -- signed before last season, but kicking in for this one -- would have included an additional $32.6 million. He barely missed. He's a lock to make it this season -- the first year in that mega extension. Why shouldn't he remain eligible for that bonus? Why should criteria be backward-looking only for players entering their primes?

Every cap fix is complex, but this seems worthy ground for negotiation.

He should definitely make first team.

[nickagneta]

Thought this as good a place as any to post.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33691939/lowe-10-nba-things-joel-embiid-dimes-ridiculous-lobs-luka-doncic-truth-nikola-jokic-defense

4. Jayson Tatum is toying with the game
Tatum has reached that nirvana where every one of his skills is peaking at once, amplifying each other in ways he might never have imagined.

Since Dec. 1, Tatum ranks as one of the league's most efficient pick-and-roll ball handlers and post-up players, per Second Spectrum. In that stretch, the Boston Celtics has poured in 1.14 points per chance when Tatum sets a ball screen -- fourth among 242 players who have set at least 100 picks over that span.

Tatum has leaned into two-man games with Derrick White and Marcus Smart -- the Celtics most often defended by opposing point guards. Switch, and he bullies that mismatch. Double, and you're unleashing Tatum's playmaking. Drop back, and Tatum rains pull-up fire. Overplay that pull-up, and Tatum dusts you off the bounce. He has answers for any scheme.

Apex players use the breadth of their skill to manipulate defenses, almost toying with them. When you are an all-consuming threat, defenses react to every move -- every cut, glance, shoulder fake. Such power.

But the best defenses don't just wait for you to dictate terms. They adjust on the fly, spring traps, blitz, zone up. The rare players at Tatum's level have the luxury of knowing they can react to whatever they see. What a comfort that must be: Throw whatever you want at me; I'll think of the answer on the spot, because I have them all.

The most meaningful leap has been in Tatum's passing. He is getting off the ball earlier when he should, confident he'll get it back if the Celtics keep swinging it. He is rifling passes to shooters when their defenders are still lurching in his direction.

When Tatum maintains his dribble, it is with purpose:


Tatum sees Daniel Gafford clogging the lane, and Ish Smith underneath the rim. Tatum could hit Daniel Theis for a trey, or swing to Payton Pritchard -- scorching for months -- in the right corner. Tatum could flick that pass anytime, but anticipates Theis' cut -- and how that cut will occupy Smith. As soon as Theis hits the foul line, the ball is gone.

That is the perfect combination of patience and urgency -- slow until the second Tatum needs to go fast.

Tatum has flashed this vision for years -- one quarter here, another five-minute segment there. It's constant now, and Tatum will be a constant first-team All-NBA contender.

Had Tatum made All-NBA last season, his max extension -- signed before last season, but kicking in for this one -- would have included an additional $32.6 million. He barely missed. He's a lock to make it this season -- the first year in that mega extension. Why shouldn't he remain eligible for that bonus? Why should criteria be backward-looking only for players entering their primes?

Every cap fix is complex, but this seems worthy ground for negotiation.

He should definitely make first team.

I thought Lowe's idea of possibly renegotiating contracts intriguing. It would never happen, but yeah, if there is a player that needs his 2nd contract renegotiated, Tatum is close to the top of the list

[gouki88]

Thought this as good a place as any to post.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33691939/lowe-10-nba-things-joel-embiid-dimes-ridiculous-lobs-luka-doncic-truth-nikola-jokic-defense

4. Jayson Tatum is toying with the game
Tatum has reached that nirvana where every one of his skills is peaking at once, amplifying each other in ways he might never have imagined.

Since Dec. 1, Tatum ranks as one of the league's most efficient pick-and-roll ball handlers and post-up players, per Second Spectrum. In that stretch, the Boston Celtics has poured in 1.14 points per chance when Tatum sets a ball screen -- fourth among 242 players who have set at least 100 picks over that span.

Tatum has leaned into two-man games with Derrick White and Marcus Smart -- the Celtics most often defended by opposing point guards. Switch, and he bullies that mismatch. Double, and you're unleashing Tatum's playmaking. Drop back, and Tatum rains pull-up fire. Overplay that pull-up, and Tatum dusts you off the bounce. He has answers for any scheme.

Apex players use the breadth of their skill to manipulate defenses, almost toying with them. When you are an all-consuming threat, defenses react to every move -- every cut, glance, shoulder fake. Such power.

But the best defenses don't just wait for you to dictate terms. They adjust on the fly, spring traps, blitz, zone up. The rare players at Tatum's level have the luxury of knowing they can react to whatever they see. What a comfort that must be: Throw whatever you want at me; I'll think of the answer on the spot, because I have them all.

The most meaningful leap has been in Tatum's passing. He is getting off the ball earlier when he should, confident he'll get it back if the Celtics keep swinging it. He is rifling passes to shooters when their defenders are still lurching in his direction.

When Tatum maintains his dribble, it is with purpose:


Tatum sees Daniel Gafford clogging the lane, and Ish Smith underneath the rim. Tatum could hit Daniel Theis for a trey, or swing to Payton Pritchard -- scorching for months -- in the right corner. Tatum could flick that pass anytime, but anticipates Theis' cut -- and how that cut will occupy Smith. As soon as Theis hits the foul line, the ball is gone.

That is the perfect combination of patience and urgency -- slow until the second Tatum needs to go fast.

Tatum has flashed this vision for years -- one quarter here, another five-minute segment there. It's constant now, and Tatum will be a constant first-team All-NBA contender.

Had Tatum made All-NBA last season, his max extension -- signed before last season, but kicking in for this one -- would have included an additional $32.6 million. He barely missed. He's a lock to make it this season -- the first year in that mega extension. Why shouldn't he remain eligible for that bonus? Why should criteria be backward-looking only for players entering their primes?

Every cap fix is complex, but this seems worthy ground for negotiation.

He should definitely make first team.

I thought Lowe's idea of possibly renegotiating contracts intriguing. It would never happen, but yeah, if there is a player that needs his 2nd contract renegotiated, Tatum is close to the top of the list

Don't give potential DPOY Marcus Smart any ideas!