Credit to Ainge?

[Celtics2021]

Ainge gets full credit for the Jays.

Do we really think our head coach had no say in the matter? I’d love folks to name some comparable draft selections by Danny (even someone comparable to Timelord) when Doc was coach…

Here’s a thought: Perhaps the reason why ownership was so confident having Brad as GM is because Wyc knows who really nailed it with the draft selections behind the scenes? And knows who was right about it being a mistake to not keep Horford and Theis?

Ainge never had a top-3 pick in the Doc era, much less two, so it’s really not a fair comparison.  Even so, the second best player Ainge ever drafted is still Rondo at this point.

[droopdog7]

Ainge gets full credit for the Jays.

Do we really think our head coach had no say in the matter? I’d love folks to name some comparable draft selections by Danny (even someone comparable to Timelord) when Doc was coach…

Here’s a thought: Perhaps the reason why ownership was so confident having Brad as GM is because Wyc knows who really nailed it with the draft selections behind the scenes? And knows who was right about it being a mistake to not keep Horford and Theis?

Ainge (alongside the boneheads in Brooklyn) gets full credit for fleecing the Nets, which brought us the Jays. He also gets full credit for getting extremely lucky in acquiring KG, which was the most consequential thing to happen to the franchise in the past 35 years (otherwise, Danny would have been out of a job by the late 2000s…). Finally, he gets credit for bringing Brad here, although if it wasn’t Danny bringing him into the NBA, it would have been the GM of the Pacers sooner or later, at the very least.

We are extremely fortunate to have Brad Stevens leading this organization. It’s ultimately why we are feeling invincible and on top for the first time since 2008.

I don’t know, are we just going to speculate about things we don’t know or give guys credit for playing their role?  Me, I give the coach credit for coaching, the players for playing, and the GM credit for GM’ing.  To answer the first question, I’m sure they talk.  I’m sure most gm’s talk to lots of people.  But the GM is on the line and credit good or bad.

[Roy H.]

Ainge gets full credit for the Jays.

Do we really think our head coach had no say in the matter? I’d love folks to name some comparable draft selections by Danny (even someone comparable to Timelord) when Doc was coach…

Big Al, Perk, Tony Allen, Bradley, Jared Sullinger, BBD, Powe, Gomes

Obviously he didn't draft the equivalent of JT and JB, because we didn't end up with the #3 and #1 pick in the draft.

[gift]

One of the biggest mistakes made by Danny, and possibly the move that cost him the job, was letting Horford walk over money. All we did was win with Horford in 2016-2019, our first major free agent signing in forever back in 2016, and presently. Horford does all the little things that help us win, including mentorship and tremendous defensive leadership. He’s Captain Intangible. It’s telling that Brad’s very first move as GM was bringing back Horford. There’s absolutely zero evidence Ainge had anything to do with that, and when I repeatedly suggested the idea of bringing back Horford by dumping Kemba about a year ago, many folks told me there’s “no way” Danny would do that and admit an error quite like that.

For people thinking there's "no way" Danny would do that, he once re-acquired Antoine Walker about a year and half after Walker called him "a snake". I don't think he's motivated by insecurity in that way.

At the time Horford left, it hurt but made sense. His first two years of that contract looked bad. It's only back in Boston after taking a half year off that he looks rejuvenated. He might not be who he is now if he had stayed the whole time.

There's no direct evidence that Ainge influenced the Horford deal in the same way that there's no direct evidence that Brad had to be talked into it by Mike Zarren. It just makes sense that the deal was talked about before the end of the season, and Ainge hadn't even fully cut ties by the time the deal was made, and it was made quickly. I don't credit the move to Ainge, but I can't say he wasn't part of it. In any case, Ainge got Horford to sign in 2016 and if he hadn't, it's fair to say Al wouldn't be on the team today. So cumulatively, I give Ainge partial credit there.

[tonydelk]

I'll say this.  I was always a Danny Supporter but and he has definitely left us with our core.  Brad is the one who built the team to what it is.  Danny missed on a lot of picks.  Made us go through the Kryme debacle, losing Hayward for almost nothing that Brad turned into something.  I'm glad Danny didn't leave us with garbage.  He deserves a little credit but Ime, Brad, Ownership and the players deserve 80% of it.

[Roy H.]

One of the biggest mistakes made by Danny, and possibly the move that cost him the job, was letting Horford walk over money. All we did was win with Horford in 2016-2019, our first major free agent signing in forever back in 2016, and presently. Horford does all the little things that help us win, including mentorship and tremendous defensive leadership. He’s Captain Intangible. It’s telling that Brad’s very first move as GM was bringing back Horford. There’s absolutely zero evidence Ainge had anything to do with that, and when I repeatedly suggested the idea of bringing back Horford by dumping Kemba about a year ago, many folks told me there’s “no way” Danny would do that and admit an error quite like that.

For people thinking there's "no way" Danny would do that, he once re-acquired Antoine Walker about a year and half after Walker called him "a snake". I don't think he's motivated by insecurity in that way.

At the time Horford left, it hurt but made sense. His first two years of that contract looked bad. It's only back in Boston after taking a half year off that he looks rejuvenated. He might not be who he is now if he had stayed the whole time.

There's no direct evidence that Ainge influenced the Horford deal in the same way that there's no direct evidence that Brad had to be talked into it by Mike Zarren. It just makes sense that the deal was talked about before the end of the season, and Ainge hadn't even fully cut ties by the time the deal was made, and it was made quickly. I don't credit the move to Ainge, but I can't say he wasn't part of it. In any case, Ainge got Horford to sign in 2016 and if he hadn't, it's fair to say Al wouldn't be on the team today. So cumulatively, I give Ainge partial credit there.

I'd even dispute the "zero evidence" / "no direct evidence" statements.  The latter is probably accurate, depending on what "direct evidence" means, but there's plenty of reporting that Danny had discussed a very similar trade.  Hell, I discussed a very similar trade.  I'm sure dozens of people on this site proposed a very similar trade. 

[GreenlyGreeny]

One of the biggest mistakes made by Danny, and possibly the move that cost him the job, was letting Horford walk over money. All we did was win with Horford in 2016-2019, our first major free agent signing in forever back in 2016, and presently. Horford does all the little things that help us win, including mentorship and tremendous defensive leadership. He’s Captain Intangible. It’s telling that Brad’s very first move as GM was bringing back Horford. There’s absolutely zero evidence Ainge had anything to do with that, and when I repeatedly suggested the idea of bringing back Horford by dumping Kemba about a year ago, many folks told me there’s “no way” Danny would do that and admit an error quite like that.

For people thinking there's "no way" Danny would do that, he once re-acquired Antoine Walker about a year and half after Walker called him "a snake". I don't think he's motivated by insecurity in that way.

At the time Horford left, it hurt but made sense. His first two years of that contract looked bad.

Only to folks who think all that matters is popular offensive statistics and +/-. Chemistry matters. Defense matters. Horford was and is our heart and soul. Both JT/JB will forever have started their career under Al’s wing (and Smart only had two seasons before elevating his game under Al’s wing). Heck, look at how much Timelord has soared alongside Al. We should have matched whatever the market was willing to offer him. What a disaster Kemba was in comparison.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I'll say this.  I was always a Danny Supporter but and he has definitely left us with our core.  Brad is the one who built the team to what it is.  Danny missed on a lot of picks.  Made us go through the Kryme debacle, losing Hayward for almost nothing that Brad turned into something.  I'm glad Danny didn't leave us with garbage.  He deserves a little credit but Ime, Brad, Ownership and the players deserve 80% of it.

This. I’d even bump it up to 90% given that Danny is now a member of the Utah Jazz.

[gift]

I'm really not trying to take credit away from Stevens. But for people who tend to think Stevens "built this team to what it is" or "put the pieces together", I ask which of his moves are most responsible for the team's success? Roster construction or coaching staff construction?

My personal opinion is that the team is going through natural, but not inevitable, growth that teams with young talent do. When you have the talent that this team has had for a few years now, there's a good chance they eventually put it together. Even if it necessitates auxiliary changes around the core. Assuming that's the case, a great amount of credit goes to the one's responsible for the core (and I actually give Stevens a degree of credit there).

[gift]

One of the biggest mistakes made by Danny, and possibly the move that cost him the job, was letting Horford walk over money. All we did was win with Horford in 2016-2019, our first major free agent signing in forever back in 2016, and presently. Horford does all the little things that help us win, including mentorship and tremendous defensive leadership. He’s Captain Intangible. It’s telling that Brad’s very first move as GM was bringing back Horford. There’s absolutely zero evidence Ainge had anything to do with that, and when I repeatedly suggested the idea of bringing back Horford by dumping Kemba about a year ago, many folks told me there’s “no way” Danny would do that and admit an error quite like that.

For people thinking there's "no way" Danny would do that, he once re-acquired Antoine Walker about a year and half after Walker called him "a snake". I don't think he's motivated by insecurity in that way.

At the time Horford left, it hurt but made sense. His first two years of that contract looked bad.

Only to folks who think all that matters is popular offensive statistics and +/-. Chemistry matters. Defense matters. Horford was and is our heart and soul. Both JT/JB will forever have started their career under Al’s wing (and Smart only had two seasons before elevating his game under Al’s wing). Heck, look at how much Timelord has soared alongside Al. We should have matched whatever the market was willing to offer him. What a disaster Kemba was in comparison.

Al is noticeably quicker and more energized this year. I haven't heard anything about his training or diet, but I'd be willing to bet he tightened it up in the last year or so. He looks leaner and quicker.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I'm really not trying to take credit away from Stevens. But for people who tend to think Stevens "built this team to what it is" or "put the pieces together", I ask which of his moves are most responsible for the team's success? Roster construction or coaching staff construction?

Ime/coaching staff construction, and Horford (who’s a player/assistant coach in function). We’re not a contender without them. In addition to Horford, White and Theis are the defensive/bench pieces we sorely missed last year. Without Brad’s brilliant moves, where he turned our bench from one of the worst into one of the best, we are once again the same first-round exit team we were last year. After being on the treadmill since the Bubble, we are better than we have ever been since 2008. It most certainly did not happen mostly because of Danny. At this point, it’s mostly Brad and Ime.

[GreenlyGreeny]

One of the biggest mistakes made by Danny, and possibly the move that cost him the job, was letting Horford walk over money. All we did was win with Horford in 2016-2019, our first major free agent signing in forever back in 2016, and presently. Horford does all the little things that help us win, including mentorship and tremendous defensive leadership. He’s Captain Intangible. It’s telling that Brad’s very first move as GM was bringing back Horford. There’s absolutely zero evidence Ainge had anything to do with that, and when I repeatedly suggested the idea of bringing back Horford by dumping Kemba about a year ago, many folks told me there’s “no way” Danny would do that and admit an error quite like that.

For people thinking there's "no way" Danny would do that, he once re-acquired Antoine Walker about a year and half after Walker called him "a snake". I don't think he's motivated by insecurity in that way.

At the time Horford left, it hurt but made sense. His first two years of that contract looked bad.

Only to folks who think all that matters is popular offensive statistics and +/-. Chemistry matters. Defense matters. Horford was and is our heart and soul. Both JT/JB will forever have started their career under Al’s wing (and Smart only had two seasons before elevating his game under Al’s wing). Heck, look at how much Timelord has soared alongside Al. We should have matched whatever the market was willing to offer him. What a disaster Kemba was in comparison.

Al is noticeably quicker and more energized this year. I haven't heard anything about his training or diet, but I'd be willing to bet he tightened it up in the last year or so. He looks leaner and quicker.

He’s got the chemistry with JT, JB and Smart. Those guys still look up to him as the all-star leader he was when they joined the league. Instead of winning one for the Gipper, these guys wanna win one for Al.

And perhaps Al’s adopted TB12 or something, too. Whatever he’s doing, we gotta pay the man this off-season. He’s the Colonel’s Secret Ingredient to this whole thing, and the man is hungry for a ring so he can have a shot at the HOF.

[gift]

I'll say this.  I was always a Danny Supporter but and he has definitely left us with our core.  Brad is the one who built the team to what it is.  Danny missed on a lot of picks.  Made us go through the Kryme debacle, losing Hayward for almost nothing that Brad turned into something.  I'm glad Danny didn't leave us with garbage.  He deserves a little credit but Ime, Brad, Ownership and the players deserve 80% of it.

I get docking Ainge for his mistakes if you're grading his overall tenure. And I can understand giving Ime a majority of the credit if you think it's a coaching issue.

But I don't understand how Brad gets a majority of credit when the core of the team is Ainge's. I can even give Brad credit for that because he was in on the decisions with the front office. But then he'd have to get docked for all of those mistakes too.

In any case, the continuity has probably been beneficial to the team and ownership probably does deserve credit for that. Because there were definitely "blow the whole thing up" feelings and they stuck with Stevens who correctly did not blow it up but added to it and hired the right coach.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I'll say this.  I was always a Danny Supporter but and he has definitely left us with our core.  Brad is the one who built the team to what it is.  Danny missed on a lot of picks.  Made us go through the Kryme debacle, losing Hayward for almost nothing that Brad turned into something.  I'm glad Danny didn't leave us with garbage.  He deserves a little credit but Ime, Brad, Ownership and the players deserve 80% of it.

I get docking Ainge for his mistakes if you're grading his overall tenure. And I can understand giving Ime a majority of the credit if you think it's a coaching issue.

But I don't understand how Brad gets a majority of credit when the core of the team is Ainge's. I can even give Brad credit for that because he was in on the decisions with the front office. But then he'd have to get docked for all of those mistakes too.

Do you want to know who knows who gets the credit for the successes and who gets docked for the mistakes? The owners, the boss of the GM. Now guess who really chose Brad as GM over Danny? Here’s a hint if anybody is still having trouble reading between the lines as to what really happened behind the scenes last year: Danny now works for Utah…and we are title contenders under Brad…

[#1P4P]

Credit to Danny Ainge!

He helped build the foundation of this team with 6 of 9 rotation players with Nesmith potentially adding another player to the mix.

Aside from drafting, he made plenty of excellent moves too like declining offers to trade our young then-unproven prospect(s)+assets for oft-injured disgruntled veterans. Then, signing Jaylen to an extension that would’ve cost a $40+M or 10% of the cap.

He groomed and handed the reigns to Brad and BS has completed the vision; even improving upon one of Danny’s shortcomings, which was team building. Instead of Danny’s “I’m acquiring the better asset” approach, Brad has implemented his “I’m building my perfect team” approach.

Which led to the re-acquisition of his favorite veterans like Horford and Theis, and even the Derrick White trade. None of these players have gaudy stats, but they play great, versatile defense and constantly make the right play. These guys play like “Grant is open in the corner, but I don’t have a direct passing lane, so I’ll pass it to Smart on the arch who I do have an open passing lane to and trust he’ll get it to Grant.” Counts for 0 assists on the boxscore, but these guys do it over and over again.

Credit to Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge!