You're Next Ray

[jbpats]

I'm a no to Ray but I was a no to KG.

Now that KG has been retired I am impartial as to what should happen to Ray. I feel Ray is more deserving to be up there then 1/3rd (at least) of the other guys in the rafters but I'm of the mindset that we need to stop retiring numbers as it is discounting the players that deserve to be up there.

[JohnBoy65]

One of the things that struck me this morning as I was watching the number retirement ceremony was how awkward it was with Ray there. The whole ceremony was connected to a culture change and a championship. Which, by the way, of course it was. However, I couldn't help but think Ray did all that too. So in the way they presented KG last night it made me think Ray had to be next. It just seems like it has to happen.

People forget, Ray was a lot like KG in terms of preparation, attention to detail, and success. He just wasn't as vocal or overt about it.

[Who]

It would be nice if only to end all the animosity directed at Ray. Let it go. Cherish the good times he brought.

[angryguy77]

Feels like we're in everyone gets a trophy territory with all these number retirements.

It was a great run while KG was here, but it's a footnote compared to what the franchise had done as a whole before.

Being on the team for a short time and only winning one should DQ any talk of a retirement. Would we have retired Shaq's number had he played one year ant won it all?

[tonydelk]

Ray was vital for the C's championship but he is not deserving of having his number retired.  Same with Rondo and Perk.  Great Celtics.  Vital for the banner but not jersey numbe retirement worthy.

KG only played 5 years for the C's but in those 5 years he completely changed the culture of this team during those years and to this day.  He epitomized Celtic Pride.  Without KG who knows where this franchise would be.  KG was deserving because he did more then help the team win a banner.  He resurrected this team from the hell they were in for years.  KG did more in 5 years for the franchise then most players do for the NBA in their careers.  That's why KG was deserving.  Winning the franchise a championship doesn't automatically qualify their stars for this treatment.

[LilRip]

Pass on Ray Allen getting his jersey retired. KG’s jersey, I was already iffy but he was the heart and soul of the team so fine, I could see it happening. He changed the way the C’s were viewed in the modern era. That’s gotta count for something I suppose.

What did Ray Allen do? And is he more deserving than say, Rondo (who I also don’t think should have his jersey retired)?

[Donoghus]

Ray played 38 less regular season games than KG, but 7 more playoff games. And Ray actually played more regular season minutes by like 500 minutes.  I never really understood the notion that KG was a no brainer and Ray was an afterthought.  I personally wouldn't have retired either number, but since they retired KG, they probably should also retire Ray based on their own standards.

If you don’t understand the difference between what KG brought to this Celtics franchise and Ray, I don’t know what to tell you

Pretty much.

[Moranis]

Pass on Ray Allen getting his jersey retired. KG’s jersey, I was already iffy but he was the heart and soul of the team so fine, I could see it happening. He changed the way the C’s were viewed in the modern era. That’s gotta count for something I suppose.

What did Ray Allen do? And is he more deserving than say, Rondo (who I also don’t think should have his jersey retired)?

Ray Allen changed the Celtics culture and brought the team their first title in over 20 years. 

[Neurotic Guy]

Just to throw in 2 cents in a different direction, I think they should dump the whole number retirement thing and perhaps create a recognition criteria for only elite players with longevity, and elite management  -- the Mount Rushmore -- Russell, Havlicek, Cowens, Bird, Pierce, Red, maybe Cousy, maybe Tommy, maybe Danny.

The rest should have a place in a Celtics museum -- if they want to call it Hall of Fame I suppose, but better to be a museum of memorabilia, stories, videos, etc.  That way Celtics who contributed in small and large ways (including guys like Glen Macdonald and Gerald Henderson and Mike Gorman) are acknowledged without a dividing line that puts a Ray Allen in and leaves a Nate Archibald out. 

[celticsclay]

Pass on Ray Allen getting his jersey retired. KG’s jersey, I was already iffy but he was the heart and soul of the team so fine, I could see it happening. He changed the way the C’s were viewed in the modern era. That’s gotta count for something I suppose.

What did Ray Allen do? And is he more deserving than say, Rondo (who I also don’t think should have his jersey retired)?

Ray Allen changed the Celtics culture and brought the team their first title in over 20 years.

Ray Allen was actually notorious for not being connected to the rest of the Celtics. Multiple players have commented how the whole team would show up for each other’s charity events and ray was the only player that wouldn’t do it.

[Moranis]

Pass on Ray Allen getting his jersey retired. KG’s jersey, I was already iffy but he was the heart and soul of the team so fine, I could see it happening. He changed the way the C’s were viewed in the modern era. That’s gotta count for something I suppose.

What did Ray Allen do? And is he more deserving than say, Rondo (who I also don’t think should have his jersey retired)?

Ray Allen changed the Celtics culture and brought the team their first title in over 20 years.

Ray Allen was actually notorious for not being connected to the rest of the Celtics. Multiple players have commented how the whole team would show up for each other’s charity events and ray was the only player that wouldn’t do it.

Off the court, perhaps, but on the court Allen gets no where near the credit he deserves.  He changed the entire offense with his shooting.  He had the most remarkable shooting run I've ever seen in the Finals in 08 (52.4% on 7 attempts).  He was absolutely Boston's best player in the Finals and they don't win that title without him.  KG rejected overtures from Boston for a very long time until Ray Allen was on the team.  Without Allen, and what he represented, Boston doesn't land KG.  Boston went from basically a 50 win team and a ECF appearance to a game over .500 and getting beaten in the 1st round by a team led by Carmelo Anthony (in which JR Smith or Raymond Felton was the 2nd best player), the season that Ray was not here and KG and PP were.  His impact on the scoreboard was never appreciated (he had the best on/off per 100 possessions in both 09 and 10, yes even better than KG). 

Even while he was here, the fanbase never respected Allen, but when he left for Miami it was like he was a role player his entire tenure.  His place in Celtics history has been badly misremembered by the fanbase.  Without him, there is no title.  The team needed his offensive game to score enough points to beat the good teams.  They don't do that without him.  They don't even land KG without him.  Ray Allen made the Celtics desirable for a guy like KG to waive his no trade clause.  Ray Allen set a tone with his professionalism.  Ray Allen made Boston a good enough offensive team that they could actually win a title. 

That isn't to say KG wasn't important, he absolutely was.  Boston doesn't win a title without him either.  And as I've pretty consistently said, Boston stopped being a true contender when KG stopped being a top 5 player and his injury really accelerated his decline and Boston's true window of contention. 

I don't think either KG or Ray deserved to have their number retired.  That should be the highest honor a franchise can give a player, and I don't think KG or Ray played long enough (or with enough success) to have their number retired.  Pierce is the only guy who should be up there since basically Bird/McHale/Parish (I can understand Lewis, though I wouldn't have retired his number either).  Boston quite simply has retired too many numbers which cheapens it for the players truly deserving.

[KeepBigAl]

In order to get your number retired for just 5 or 6 years of playing time, you must have an immeasurable impact in a variety of ways...only one of these players did that.   

Only one of these players has the heart of a Celtic.

Only one of these players has remained a champion of Celtic Pride past his playing days.

Ray was a great player but a hired gun as far as team allegiance.  As KG himself says of he and PP ""I think we'll always bleed green, as long as we're playing basketball, until we're six feet under."

[celticsclay]

Yea I could have gone either way on kg. But it is significant he identifies with the Celtics and Celtics culture. I don’t think ray would even want his number retired here.

[slamtheking]

wasn't for the KG number retirement due to him having played too few years here but not going to lose sleep over it.  Ray on the other hand, didn't play well enough nor long enough to get his number retired.  Rondo played here long enough but not at the level needed to justify it.

[gouki88]

Pass on Ray Allen getting his jersey retired. KG’s jersey, I was already iffy but he was the heart and soul of the team so fine, I could see it happening. He changed the way the C’s were viewed in the modern era. That’s gotta count for something I suppose.

What did Ray Allen do? And is he more deserving than say, Rondo (who I also don’t think should have his jersey retired)?

Ray Allen changed the Celtics culture and brought the team their first title in over 20 years.

Ray Allen was actually notorious for not being connected to the rest of the Celtics. Multiple players have commented how the whole team would show up for each other’s charity events and ray was the only player that wouldn’t do it.

Off the court, perhaps, but on the court Allen gets no where near the credit he deserves.  He changed the entire offense with his shooting.  He had the most remarkable shooting run I've ever seen in the Finals in 08 (52.4% on 7 attempts).  He was absolutely Boston's best player in the Finals and they don't win that title without him.  KG rejected overtures from Boston for a very long time until Ray Allen was on the team.  Without Allen, and what he represented, Boston doesn't land KG.  Boston went from basically a 50 win team and a ECF appearance to a game over .500 and getting beaten in the 1st round by a team led by Carmelo Anthony (in which JR Smith or Raymond Felton was the 2nd best player), the season that Ray was not here and KG and PP were.  His impact on the scoreboard was never appreciated (he had the best on/off per 100 possessions in both 09 and 10, yes even better than KG). 

Even while he was here, the fanbase never respected Allen, but when he left for Miami it was like he was a role player his entire tenure.  His place in Celtics history has been badly misremembered by the fanbase.  Without him, there is no title.  The team needed his offensive game to score enough points to beat the good teams.  They don't do that without him.  They don't even land KG without him.  Ray Allen made the Celtics desirable for a guy like KG to waive his no trade clause.  Ray Allen set a tone with his professionalism.  Ray Allen made Boston a good enough offensive team that they could actually win a title. 

That isn't to say KG wasn't important, he absolutely was.  Boston doesn't win a title without him either.  And as I've pretty consistently said, Boston stopped being a true contender when KG stopped being a top 5 player and his injury really accelerated his decline and Boston's true window of contention. 

I don't think either KG or Ray deserved to have their number retired.  That should be the highest honor a franchise can give a player, and I don't think KG or Ray played long enough (or with enough success) to have their number retired.  Pierce is the only guy who should be up there since basically Bird/McHale/Parish (I can understand Lewis, though I wouldn't have retired his number either).  Boston quite simply has retired too many numbers which cheapens it for the players truly deserving.

Do not try and equate changing the offence with changing the culture.