Celtics (39-27) at Hornets (32-33) Game #67 3/9/22

[SparzWizard]

Hmm, do ya'll think this team is for reals? They look very dangerous when they are fully healthy.

Another big game for Tatum. Definitely playing like a superstar

[nickagneta]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

[liam]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

More worried about Horford and Jaylen looks like he needs some rest.

[liam]

Hmm, do ya'll think this team is for reals? They look very dangerous when they are fully healthy.

Another big game for Tatum. Definitely playing like a superstar

Fully healthy they can beat anyone!

[tenn_smoothie]

What I want to know is this - why hasn't Smart done this type of aggressive taking it to the rim his entire career? His offense would have been so much better all those years if he just did this more consistently. No idea what changed for him this year, other than the fact that he's the actual designated point guard now.

Because he is basically a dumb player. An attack dog full of competitiveness, an elite athlete, but lacking in basketball intelligence.
Brad Stevens refused to be tough with him. Maybe Stevens was afraid he would lose some of his natural aggressiveness if he restrained his bad habits - or maybe Stevens was just plain afraid of Marcus.

Pretty sure I’ve heard you say that Tatum and Brown are dumb too. Guess the team is just a bunch of dummies... 

I wonder how he imagines that “dumb” Marcus Smart is so good on defense. Not that he’s a dominant physical presence. He’s a brilliant student of body positioning, ball movement, switching, leverage. He’s constantly quarterbacking our defense.  I don’t know if I’ve heard anything less convincing than that Smart is a dumb player.

I'm hardly the only one on this board who has pointed out the fact that Smart, Tatum and Brown have continued to make the same mistakes - forcing offense - the past few seasons into this season, no less - to the point of calling for trades at different times of all three players.

No one wants to use the term "dumb player" but that's what they have been. Just because they have finally shown some improvement in this area - well Smart and Tatum have - doesn't mean they have displayed consistent high basketball IQ during most of their respective careers.

This team still kills itself with bad turnovers from forcing dribbles into traffic or getting off balance and throwing bad passes or jacking up awful shots after refusing to move the ball and going to isolation offense. We win a few games and all is forgotten. I'm extremely happy they are playing better, but it doesn't change their tendency to repeat dumb basketball mistakes. My original comment tonite about Smart was in response to Potter expressing frustration over his offensive decisions.

[Silas]

Hmm, do ya'll think this team is for reals? They look very dangerous when they are fully healthy.

Another big game for Tatum. Definitely playing like a superstar

Fully healthy they can beat anyone!

and I think they will.

[Celtics2021]

I think Rob played only 20 minutes .   Keep him healthy Ime.

5 fouls in 20 minutes is a good way for Rob to keep himself healthy.

[gouki88]

I think Rob played only 20 minutes .   Keep him healthy Ime.

5 fouls in 20 minutes is a good way for Rob to keep himself healthy.

The Dewayne Dedmon school of energy conservation

[tenn_smoothie]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

I would point out that Bird and Magic, and even Duncan, played a different type of game than we see today. They knew how to coast at times to protect their health. Shaq did break down. Bryant, Jordan and James have all been physical freaks of nature.

[Silas]

I think Rob played only 20 minutes .   Keep him healthy Ime.

5 fouls in 20 minutes is a good way for Rob to keep himself healthy.

This game was an outlier.  Rob averages 2.2fouls/game....not too shabby.

[radiohead]

I think Rob played only 20 minutes .   Keep him healthy Ime.

Foul trouble had a lot to do with that though.

[ETNCeltics]

Tatum averaging 42 pts over the last 4 games, on 56/46/87 shooting.

If he keeps it up the next 2 games he could be the first Celtic to ever win back to back NBA POTW.

[Muzzy66]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

That's not really an apples-to-apples comparison to be fair, as most of the guys on that list were guys who played in the 1990s / 2000s - an where where most good starters played 36+ minutes a night, and the top superstars often played 40 MPG or more.

Now days - with the league trying to reduce load on players - the average star player plays significantly less minutes then they did back in those times. 

Here is a list with a count of how many players averaged 38 MPG or more each season, starting from 2001-02:

01-02: 28 with > 38 MPG (10 with < 40 MPG)
02-03: 28 with > 38 MPG (11 with > 40 MPG)
03-04: 20 with > 38 MPG(8 with < 40 MPG)
04-05: 25 with > 38 MPG (8 with < 40 MPG)
05-06: 25 with > 38 MPG (9 with > 40 MPG)
06-07: 18 with > 38 MPG (6 with > 40 MPG)
07-08: 17 with > 38 MPG (3 with > 40 MPG)
08-09: 13 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
09-10: 12 with > 38 MPG (2 with > 40 MPG)
10-11: 8 with > 38 MPG(1 with > 40 MPG)
11-12: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with> 40 MPG)
12-13: 7 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
13-14: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
14-15: 1 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
15-16: 2 with > 38 MPG (1 with > 40 MPG)
16-17: 0 with > 38 MPG
17-18: 0 with > 38 MPG
18-19: 0 with > 38 MPG
19-20: 0 with > 38 MPG
20-21: 0 with > 38 MPG
21-22: 1 with > 38 MPG

In 2001 and 2002 there were 28 guys who averaged over 38 minutes a night.  Comparatively, there has been one single guy who has averaged 38 MPG in the past 6 seasons combined, and that is Fred VanVleet (this season). 

[nickagneta]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

That's not really an apples-to-apples comparison to be fair, as most of the guys on that list were guys who played in the 1990s / 2000s - an where where most good starters played 36+ minutes a night, and the top superstars often played 40 MPG or more.

Now days - with the league trying to reduce load on players - the average star player plays significantly less minutes then they did back in those times. 

Here is a list with a count of how many players averaged 38 MPG or more each season, starting from 2001-02:

01-02: 28 with > 38 MPG (10 with < 40 MPG)
02-03: 28 with > 38 MPG (11 with > 40 MPG)
03-04: 20 with > 38 MPG(8 with < 40 MPG)
04-05: 25 with > 38 MPG (8 with < 40 MPG)
05-06: 25 with > 38 MPG (9 with > 40 MPG)
06-07: 18 with > 38 MPG (6 with > 40 MPG)
07-08: 17 with > 38 MPG (3 with > 40 MPG)
08-09: 13 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
09-10: 12 with > 38 MPG (2 with > 40 MPG)
10-11: 8 with > 38 MPG(1 with > 40 MPG)
11-12: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with> 40 MPG)
12-13: 7 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
13-14: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
14-15: 1 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
15-16: 2 with > 38 MPG (1 with > 40 MPG)
16-17: 0 with > 38 MPG
17-18: 0 with > 38 MPG
18-19: 0 with > 38 MPG
19-20: 0 with > 38 MPG
20-21: 0 with > 38 MPG
21-22: 1 with > 38 MPG

In 2001 and 2002 there were 28 guys who averaged over 38 minutes a night.  Comparatively, there has been one single guy who has averaged 38 MPG in the past 6 seasons combined, and that is Fred VanVleet (this season).

Awesome. Now instead of moving the goalposts to 38 minutes, why not give us the stats for 36 minutes, which is what I said Tatum would be good playing.

[Muzzy66]

Good win. I'd still like a longer rotation but winning is great!

Very solid win - the type of game this team has often lost the past few seasons - a tough road game vs a decent team after a couple of recent big wins. And my thought is the same - let's not play Tatum and Co. into the ground, both for the sake of this year's playoffs and future seasons. I sure don't want to see our core start breaking down physically in the middle of their primes and after becoming annual title contenders.

The best play big minutes. It's what you do to win titles. For their careers this is the MPG for the best

Lebron 38
MJ 38
Kobe 36
Shaq 35
Duncan 34
Magic 37
Bird 38

Tatum will be just fine playing 36 MPG for the next 12 years.

That's not really an apples-to-apples comparison to be fair, as most of the guys on that list were guys who played in the 1990s / 2000s - an where where most good starters played 36+ minutes a night, and the top superstars often played 40 MPG or more.

Now days - with the league trying to reduce load on players - the average star player plays significantly less minutes then they did back in those times. 

Here is a list with a count of how many players averaged 38 MPG or more each season, starting from 2001-02:

01-02: 28 with > 38 MPG (10 with < 40 MPG)
02-03: 28 with > 38 MPG (11 with > 40 MPG)
03-04: 20 with > 38 MPG(8 with < 40 MPG)
04-05: 25 with > 38 MPG (8 with < 40 MPG)
05-06: 25 with > 38 MPG (9 with > 40 MPG)
06-07: 18 with > 38 MPG (6 with > 40 MPG)
07-08: 17 with > 38 MPG (3 with > 40 MPG)
08-09: 13 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
09-10: 12 with > 38 MPG (2 with > 40 MPG)
10-11: 8 with > 38 MPG(1 with > 40 MPG)
11-12: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with> 40 MPG)
12-13: 7 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
13-14: 5 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
14-15: 1 with > 38 MPG (0 with > 40 MPG)
15-16: 2 with > 38 MPG (1 with > 40 MPG)
16-17: 0 with > 38 MPG
17-18: 0 with > 38 MPG
18-19: 0 with > 38 MPG
19-20: 0 with > 38 MPG
20-21: 0 with > 38 MPG
21-22: 1 with > 38 MPG

In 2001 and 2002 there were 28 guys who averaged over 38 minutes a night.  Comparatively, there has been one single guy who has averaged 38 MPG in the past 6 seasons combined, and that is Fred VanVleet (this season).

Awesome. Now instead of moving the goalposts to 38 minutes, why not give us the stats for 36 minutes, which is what I said Tatum would be good playing.

I'm not moving any goalposts at all.  I'm providing numbers to show how much the "norm" for minutes played has changed over the years.  The fact that there were more guys averaging 40+ MPG in 01-02, 02-03, 03-04, 04-05 and 05-06 (a good half decade period) then there are averaging 36+ MPG this year shows just how dramatically the minutes expectations have changed across those eras/generation.

But if it's easier for you to see my point by focussing on purely 36+ MPG stats then thats fine.  Here are the first 3 seasons from each decade, along with a count of the number of guys averaging >36 MPG in each of those years:

01-02: 49
02-03: 45
03-04: 51
Average: 48

11-12: 17
12-13: 23
13-14: 17
Average: 19

19-20: 5
20-21: 6
21-22: 6
Average: 6

[Note: We technically have only have two seasons from this decade, so I included 19-20 to keep the same 3 year span]

The average number of players averaging  at least 36 MPG has dropped from 48 to 19 to 6 with each passing decade.  More guys averaged 40+ MPG+ in 01-02 then there are averaging 36+ MPG today. The difference is quite dramatic, and it really does makes it impossible to set a current day player's minute expectations based on the type of minutes these big stars played back in those previous eras.