Author Topic: NFL Off-season 2022  (Read 103038 times)

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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #495 on: August 01, 2022, 04:43:51 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Josh Gordon suspended 25+ games for weed, Ridley for the entire season for gambling but Watson 6 games for sexual assault? Something don't add up lol


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #496 on: August 01, 2022, 04:51:42 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I am sure that I don't have this story straight but is it correct that Watson somehow forced at least 4 woman to touch his penis or he maybe touched them with his penis while they were busy massaging his leg or something?  And I assume that this is evidence that the grand jury considered but then chose not to indict him for any criminal acts?

I don't know how to define violent or none violent sexual harassment but this certainly sounds criminal.  How did a grand jury not see this as probable cause of a criminal act (I am not a lawyer so I am probably not using the right terminology)?

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #497 on: August 01, 2022, 04:59:54 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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I am sure that I don't have this story straight but is it correct that Watson somehow forced at least 4 woman to touch his penis or he maybe touched them with his penis while they were busy massaging his leg or something?  And I assume that this is evidence that the grand jury considered but then chose not to indict him for any criminal acts?

I don't know how to define violent or none violent sexual harassment but this certainly sounds criminal.  How did a grand jury not see this as probable cause of a criminal act (I am not a lawyer so I am probably not using the right terminology)?

I believe there were 24 civil suits.
Some subset were presented to a grand jury(s) and they declined criminal prosecution.
I also believe 23 of the 24 civil suits have been settled.

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #498 on: August 01, 2022, 05:04:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

Wow
Did you read the decision?  That is basically what it says.

How is this any different from Elliot or Big Ben being suspended 6 games without being convicted of anything? (I mean aside from their being 4 instances for Watson compared to one for Big Ben).
It isn't, which is ultimately why she gave him 6 games (though I got the impression she may not have at all if the definitions were left up to her).  The NFL wanted a lot more and she came down very hard on them for that stance. 

Read the decision.  It is written in a way that a non-lawyer can probably understand it.

Yes, it’s in plain language.

And clearly, she thinks forcing somebody to touch your naked penis against their will — even when they’re objectively in fear — is no big deal.


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #499 on: August 01, 2022, 05:07:34 PM »

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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #500 on: August 01, 2022, 05:14:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.



« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 05:20:56 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #501 on: August 01, 2022, 05:24:02 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.
I believe the judge wants to make the owners think about this question very hard.

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #502 on: August 01, 2022, 05:27:49 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.
I believe the judge wants to make the owners think about this question very hard.

Not her job, if she minimizes sexual assault in the process.

Deadspin gets it:  https://deadspin.com/why-was-sue-robinson-involved-in-deshaun-watson-s-case-1849355884


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #503 on: August 01, 2022, 05:42:08 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.
I believe the judge wants to make the owners think about this question very hard.

Not her job, if she minimizes sexual assault in the process.

Deadspin gets it
https://deadspin.com/why-was-sue-robinson-involved-in-deshaun-watson-s-case-1849355884
"It’s understandable why the NLFPA would want someone like Robinson to hear the case. What’s inexcusable is why the NFL agreed to it."

She was agreed upon as an "independent" arbitrator.
Kraft was charged and the charges dropped.
Watson was not charged.

I would prefer they were both punished more.

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #504 on: August 01, 2022, 06:22:16 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.

I agree with you roy. I honestly thought we had made progress in American society beyond some of the things I have read here. The forcing women to touch your penis is no big deal when you are alone with them and a physically imposing athlete is not a viewpoint I expected to see on the forum. I get this guy is good at football but people don’t need to downplay his actions because of that.

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #505 on: August 01, 2022, 07:02:54 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Sheesh. What a joke.


Remorseful? He has categorically denied any wrongdoing
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #506 on: August 01, 2022, 08:48:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.
It didn't bother me, but it clearly bothered Judge Robinson who seemed to focus a lot on the lack of force, which is in the criminal definition of sexual assault (at least in most jurisdictions). 

"There is no allegation that Mr. Watson exerted any force against any of the therapists."

Judge Robinson seemed to have issue with the fact that "the conduct of "sexual assault" is not defined in the CBA, the Policy, or the Report." She concluded that section mentioning it again "Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL) against the four therapists identified in the Report." 

She had even stronger language in the section involving whether the conduct posed a danger to the safety or well-being of another with language like "it is the NFL's policy and it can set the rules" and that the NFL has a "broad interpretation" of the rules.

The whole tone of the decision is one that Judge Robinson feels the NFL was overstepping and creating definitions of things on the fly.  Basically don't try to enforce something retroactively that you've never defined and never bargained for. 

It is pretty clear Watson's conduct was detrimental to the league, which is why she went for the 6 games as that basically matched precedent for that sort of detrimental conduct.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #507 on: August 01, 2022, 08:56:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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As for the Robert Kraft stuff, he is far from the only owner and/or management staff who has had sexual issues.  Jerry Jones was sued for sexual assault in 2014.  The Cowboys had that executive in the cheerleader's locker-room taking pictures of them, which came out last year.  Dan Snyder has all sorts of allegations of harassment and abuse and the only person that had any penalty in that was Gruden who lost his job because of the emails.  I'm sure there are others, those are just the ones I remembered off the top of my head.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #508 on: August 01, 2022, 09:01:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I do expect the NFL to appeal, Goodell will increase the suspension, and the NFLPA will sue so this thing is going to linger for a long time.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #509 on: August 01, 2022, 09:32:22 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Or maybe the NFL shouldn't just make up the rules after the fact and try to enforce them for retroactive conduct.  I'm actually surprised she suspended him at all given how harshly she came down on the NFL for changing the rules mid-process.

If the rules are unfair, have the balls to dismiss the case as a Due Process violation.  I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, though.  Are players not aware that sexually assaulting four women is against the rules?  Punishing somebody for four proven sexual assaults is retroactive conduct?  I mean, that's literally the arbitrator's argument, right?  The NFL didn't specifically prohibit a player non-consensually touching his penis to another person's body in an unwanted way while asking for / demanding sex.  The NFL policy prohibits sexual assault committed via violence and sexual assault where a victim can't give consent.  But, in a situation where you simply force somebody to touch your junk and emotionally devastate them into needing therapy?  That's A-OK.  No policy against that, so the player couldn't have known it was wrong.

Don't make a *finding* that sexual assault occurred to at least four women, and then try to argue that that forcible, non-consensual sexual assault was "non-violent".  I hope you're simply being a contrarian, rather than somebody who thinks it's okay to go around intentionally sexually assaulting women.
Her finding was based on the NFL's after the fact interpretation of the rule.  I read the 15 pages.  She basically found that under the definition they created for this situation, he was guilty of violating the rule, but wasn't going to suspend him harshly because they were trying to retroactively punish him for conduct that wasn't well defined.  As I said, I'm actually surprised she suspended given the language she used. 

I mean this is basically the conclusion of the opinion

"Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy."

She has a footnote on Policy, which states "I note in this regard that the Policy is equally applicable to players and team owners and management.  The NFLPA questions whether it is "fair and equitable" to severely punish Mr. Watson for his non-violent sexual conduct and not even charge various team owners who have been accused of similar or worse conduct."

She basically called the NFL hypocrites who only did anything at all because of public outcry.

Is Robert Kraft going to a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution the same as hiring an amateur masseuse, inviting her to your room and forcing her to touch your naked penis against her will, to the point where she’s in fear and suffers psychological damage?

She made a finding that Watson sexually assaulted four different women, and then basically said “no biggie”. 

What part of the NFL’s definition of sexual assault bothers you?  The definition was unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature with Watson’s erect penis.  The arbitrator found that that occurred to four different women, at least.
It didn't bother me, but it clearly bothered Judge Robinson who seemed to focus a lot on the lack of force, which is in the criminal definition of sexual assault (at least in most jurisdictions). 

"There is no allegation that Mr. Watson exerted any force against any of the therapists."

Judge Robinson seemed to have issue with the fact that "the conduct of "sexual assault" is not defined in the CBA, the Policy, or the Report." She concluded that section mentioning it again "Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL) against the four therapists identified in the Report." 

She had even stronger language in the section involving whether the conduct posed a danger to the safety or well-being of another with language like "it is the NFL's policy and it can set the rules" and that the NFL has a "broad interpretation" of the rules.

The whole tone of the decision is one that Judge Robinson feels the NFL was overstepping and creating definitions of things on the fly.  Basically don't try to enforce something retroactively that you've never defined and never bargained for. 

It is pretty clear Watson's conduct was detrimental to the league, which is why she went for the 6 games as that basically matched precedent for that sort of detrimental conduct.

Moranis if you say as a lawyer that non-forceful sexual assault is given leniency in a lot of jurisdictions I will take your word for it, but I personally find that an extremely disturbing definition to distinguish (and I am worked with domestic assault and sexual assault survivors). The idea that a woman can be in a room 1 on 1 with a 6'2 220 pound jacked professional athlete and she has to resist and force the man to get physical when she is terrified for it to "forceful sexual assault" seems like a terribly misinformed law. That would inherently lead to a lot worse outcomes, perhaps even deadly in some situations. There is substantial evidence from these women that several of them were extremely distraught and terrified after the experience. This "forceful sexual assault" difference feels like something out of the 1960's when a man "couldn't rape his wife" and things of the like. I also really hope you are not going down a rabbit hole defending some pretty awful actions because the guy now plays for a Cleveland team. Roy do you have any experience with this forceful sexual assault delineation in your work?