Author Topic: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this  (Read 9019 times)

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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2022, 06:19:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.


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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2022, 06:22:30 PM »

Online slamtheking

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.
have to agree.  Klay may not be Curry but who is?  Klay is a very solid all-star player -- not someone who has to be debated about their worthiness of making the team.  could be the number one scorer on  almost any other team

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2022, 06:33:26 PM »

Offline letsgoblue86

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Team on paper is good enough to win it all. But I worry about the lack of depth.
Unless we pick up someone to help carry the load, starters are going to be playing a ton of minutes down the stretch.
One injury and this thing is over.

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2022, 07:16:59 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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I know Derrick White isn’t some superstar, but he’s 100% plug and play.  No worries about fitting him in, the kind of guy that seems to give the game what it needs.  We’re definitely better, and I think that’s good enough to make some noise this year.  I think we’ll get to the top half of the standings.

Can be the Heat from the bubble?  I’m ready, let’s go.
I think we still need a body from the buyout market, probably a big.  As much as I love Timelord, the center rotation is still a bit weak with only Theis and Horford backing him up.  Ime will probably continue with the double-big starting lineup so Horford can't play a whole lot at center. I feel the ship has sailed on the Grant-at-center small-ball experiment.

At the very least, we still need a "big-dude-at-the-end-of-the-bench-waving-a-towel" role player in case a big goes down.

Definitely need some back-up muscle in the middle - too bad Aaron Baynes is not in playing shape after his accident.

We also need shooters, shooters, shooters. Need a couple of real knock-down guys.
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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2022, 07:24:19 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.
The way I look at it, if you have three all stars, you have a big three.

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2022, 07:27:08 PM »

Online Moranis

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.
same reason no one called Shaq, Kobe, and Rice a big 3.  Or Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Because that 3rd guy isn't on the same level despite being very good.
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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2022, 08:08:33 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The one advantage the C's have is how the East is shaped currently. The three teams I fear when healthy are (in no particular order) Brooklyn, Philly and Milwaukee. But if the C's finish somewhere in the 4-6 seed, there's a real chance they can avoid playing any of those teams until the ECF. Decent chance PHI and MIL play each other in the 1st or 2nd round and take the other out. Same could be true of BKN if they make it past the play-in round and draw one of the top teams in the 1st round.

Teams like Miami, Chicago and Cleveland are having great seasons and I'm not at all saying the C's definitely win, BUT I also don't view those teams as "unbeatable" either. They can all be had especially if the C's can stay healthy and maybe add 1-2 more impact guys from the buyout market.

My best case scenario is play the Cavs 1st round, then Bulls or Heat 2nd round and then go from there. Maybe MIL makes a run and finishes with a 1 or 2 seed but if they finish #2 and the C's finish 4-5, they avoid MIL until ECF at earliest and potentially Philly too if say, PHI finishes with the 3 seed.

Still a lot of time left in the season but when you consider the injuries some teams have and such, it's hard to see teams making drastic changes either (like I don't think BKN is going to go from a 9 seed now to the 2 seed by the end of the season).

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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2022, 08:08:44 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I know Derrick White isn’t some superstar, but he’s 100% plug and play.  No worries about fitting him in, the kind of guy that seems to give the game what it needs.  We’re definitely better, and I think that’s good enough to make some noise this year.  I think we’ll get to the top half of the standings.

Can be the Heat from the bubble?  I’m ready, let’s go.

The competition is stiff, but I'm with you.

The vision came clearly into view in the second half of the Denver game. They outscored the Nougats 57-42 behind physical team defense and some brilliant ball movement. We saw how the Smart/White tandem could work: five guys passing to the open man, four guys creating shots off the dribble - without a ball-dominant point guard (I think that that's what people have meant recently when they called for Brad to get a "real" point guard; but this team might just show that you don't need that type of player in today's game).

Looks like they'll have better luck pushing the tempo and better flow in the half-court offense.

Next up is the payback game against Atlanta; and Embiid is looming on the horizon. The climbing gets steeper this week, and we'll have more, shall we say data going into the All-Star break.
It makes you wonder whether Brad is actually even smarter than most people think. A lot of teams have put all their eggs into a "Big-3" basket, notably BKN and LAL. When you do that, you compromise the quality of the rest of the roster AND you count on those 3 guys working very well together. Instead, Brad seems to going for good all-around basketball players at every position and on the depth chart. Beyond the star players, you still need players who can defend, pass, switch and shoot. Brad's work isn't finished but you can see where this might be heading.

Is the Era of the Big-3 dead?

What a great question.

My feeling is, it's a good thing that there's no easy answer - and I do not have an answer. I do have a preference, though, and that is for teams that share the ball and are tied together on a string on defense.

If you look at 'Big Three' teams that were champions, the three were good complementary fits, and nearly always one of them had to sacrifice touches and other parts of their games (Chris Bosh springs to mind as a typical example of the "third wheel"; his post-ups (and his usage) dwindled dramatically, while his spot-ups increased when he signed with Miami).

So the question is, how big of a role does the "complementary" part play, as opposed to the "talent" part of the equation. It does seem clear that in NBA playoff basketball, now as then, you've got to have players who can get you a good shot off the dribble. Can you have a championship team that has lots of that, even if it has only, to pick a random example, just two ace scorers? Or what if your third player is a defensive ace?




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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2022, 08:32:18 PM »

Offline footey

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Our lack of shooting will be our Achilles heal.

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2022, 08:52:23 PM »

Online slamtheking

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Team on paper is good enough to win it all. But I worry about the lack of depth.
Unless we pick up someone to help carry the load, starters are going to be playing a ton of minutes down the stretch.
One injury and this thing is over.
that'd only be written on toilet paper. 

team doesn't have the scoring necessary to win a title.  too many times they have shooting droughts and rather than find different ways to score, they continue bricking 3's.  though White has looked like a multi-purpose tool on the court so far, he doesn't cure the shooting woes.  Pritchard's not showing he's out of his season-long funk in the last 2 games either.

C's need to round out the rotation for next year with another couple of guys that are actual shooters that can go off for 20 in a game.

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2022, 10:06:23 PM »

Offline pablohoney

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Our lack of shooting will be our Achilles heal.

Great offense usually does beat great defense.  Our best hope is that our team as currently constructed with 8 good 2 way players can keep pace with high powered teams by having no weak link at either end of court. 

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2022, 10:20:54 PM »

Offline seancally

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Team on paper is good enough to win it all. But I worry about the lack of depth.
Unless we pick up someone to help carry the load, starters are going to be playing a ton of minutes down the stretch.
One injury and this thing is over.
that'd only be written on toilet paper. 

team doesn't have the scoring necessary to win a title.  too many times they have shooting droughts and rather than find different ways to score, they continue bricking 3's.  though White has looked like a multi-purpose tool on the court so far, he doesn't cure the shooting woes.  Pritchard's not showing he's out of his season-long funk in the last 2 games either.

C's need to round out the rotation for next year with another couple of guys that are actual shooters that can go off for 20 in a game.

Generally agree, with the caveat that the league is suddenly wide open. We’re talking about Phoenix, GSW, Memphis and Miami as the winningest teams in the league so far this season. Anyone feel like there’s a juggernaut in the bunch? Jury’s out on Brooklyn and Philly, Milwaukee is very good, but I don’t think the C’s are so far off in this current landscape. But they need to play darn near perfect to get there.
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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2022, 10:46:54 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.
same reason no one called Shaq, Kobe, and Rice a big 3.  Or Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Because that 3rd guy isn't on the same level despite being very good.

No, it’s not the same reason.  Dennis Rodman neither made an All-Star nor All-NBA team while playing with Jordan and Pippen.  Same with Glen Rice and the Lakers.  Thompson and Green both made All-NBA and All-Star while playing with Steph, and all three were All-NBA in the same season before Durant arrived, and then Green was again the season after Durant, meaning that the Warriors had three of the top 15 players in the league in consecutive seasons, and in one of those seasons had a fourth player who was All-NBA the prior two years.

If having three of the top 15 players isn’t good enough for a Big 3, then you’re just making up a definition to fit your narrative.  The Pierce/KG/Allen Celtics never had three in the same season, nor did the Big 3 Heat.  Ray Allen was clearly the number 3 on the C’s, as Bosh was in Miami, just as Draymond and Klay, despite their individual greatness, behind the pecking order with Steph and then also Durant.  There’s no requirement that all three of a Big 3 be pure equals in terms of excellence.

Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2022, 10:55:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Big 3 era was never a real thing.  Yes, Boston and then the James Heat had 3 HOF players at the top of their roster (in their prime), but it was never really a thing.  I mean the Lakers with Kobe and Pau won 2 titles.  The Warriors never had 3 close to the same quality.  The James Cavs, were James and then a couple of all stars, and solid role players.  The Raptors were a big 1 with a bunch of very good.  The Lakers last title was 2 guys and a bunch of role players, and calling the Bucks a big 3 is a huge slap in the face to Giannis who was so much better than anyone else on his team.  Championships are won by top tier talent.  Sure the more of it you have, the better, and you need more overall depth if your guy at the very top isn't in the discussion as the best player in the world, but there was never a big 3 era.  It has always been about talent.  And to be fair plenty of other historically great teams have had a big 3 i.e. Bird, McHale, Parish or Magic, Kareem, Worthy or Malone, Erving, Toney (and then Barkley) or Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Duncan, Manu, Parker, and on and on.  Just because the 2008 Celtics were called a Big 3, doesn't mean those teams didn't exist in the past or created anything differently.  At the end of the day you just need top tier talent.

This is an absurd statement.  Absolutely absurd.  The Warriors had three players win All-NBA over a two season stretch, and then added Kevin Durant to that.  They were a legit big 3, followed by a big 4, when they had four All-NBA members in the same season.
Klay and Dray are no where near Curry.  They have 1 2nd team and 3 3rd team appearances in their entire careers combined.  Curry has 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, and 1 3rd team. He is just a different class of player both at the time and historically.  It was fun to call the Warriors a big 3, but they weren't.  Curry isn't James, but they were a very similar team to the Cavs.

Now historically KG is in a different class than Pierce and Allen, bit given his age he was closer to the other two so you could call them a Big 3 even with the different career arcs.

I have a hard time understanding how a team that had two top-5 players (Durant and Curry) and another top-15-ish player (Klay) wasn't a big three.
same reason no one called Shaq, Kobe, and Rice a big 3.  Or Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Because that 3rd guy isn't on the same level despite being very good.

No, it’s not the same reason.  Dennis Rodman neither made an All-Star nor All-NBA team while playing with Jordan and Pippen.  Same with Glen Rice and the Lakers.  Thompson and Green both made All-NBA and All-Star while playing with Steph, and all three were All-NBA in the same season before Durant arrived, and then Green was again the season after Durant, meaning that the Warriors had three of the top 15 players in the league in consecutive seasons, and in one of those seasons had a fourth player who was All-NBA the prior two years.

If having three of the top 15 players isn’t good enough for a Big 3, then you’re just making up a definition to fit your narrative.  The Pierce/KG/Allen Celtics never had three in the same season, nor did the Big 3 Heat.  Ray Allen was clearly the number 3 on the C’s, as Bosh was in Miami, just as Draymond and Klay, despite their individual greatness, behind the pecking order with Steph and then also Durant.  There’s no requirement that all three of a Big 3 be pure equals in terms of excellence.
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Re: I feel like we’re going to make a run at this
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2022, 11:32:08 PM »

Online slamtheking

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Team on paper is good enough to win it all. But I worry about the lack of depth.
Unless we pick up someone to help carry the load, starters are going to be playing a ton of minutes down the stretch.
One injury and this thing is over.
that'd only be written on toilet paper. 

team doesn't have the scoring necessary to win a title.  too many times they have shooting droughts and rather than find different ways to score, they continue bricking 3's.  though White has looked like a multi-purpose tool on the court so far, he doesn't cure the shooting woes.  Pritchard's not showing he's out of his season-long funk in the last 2 games either.

C's need to round out the rotation for next year with another couple of guys that are actual shooters that can go off for 20 in a game.

Generally agree, with the caveat that the league is suddenly wide open. We’re talking about Phoenix, GSW, Memphis and Miami as the winningest teams in the league so far this season. Anyone feel like there’s a juggernaut in the bunch? Jury’s out on Brooklyn and Philly, Milwaukee is very good, but I don’t think the C’s are so far off in this current landscape. But they need to play darn near perfect to get there.
I agree there's no juggernaut in the league this year and none of the teams this year scare me.  if the C's are having an "on" night with their shooting, they can beat any other team with the defense they're playing.  having said that, we see far too many nights where the team is shooting so badly, particularly from 3, that if they threw a brick at the ground they'd miss.  Defense will only take a team so far -- they've still got to outscore the other team