Poll

What grade u give Celtics after today trades??

A
18 (16.5%)
B
42 (38.5%)
C
20 (18.3%)
D
17 (15.6%)
F
4 (3.7%)
Incomplete
8 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 108

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Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #255 on: March 17, 2022, 11:44:20 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.
it's not just his 3 point shot that he's missing.  he's missing from everywhere.

Not everywhere.  52.2% from inside the arc.

That's actually better than Tatum, Smart, Schroder, Pritchard and Richardson.  White has sucked outside of 16 feet, but anything inside of that he's been good.

Inside the arc and inside of the paint should be separated. I believe White shoots 52% from inside of the paint, but inside of the Arc I would bet his percentages are poor since he doesn’t have a midrange shot, at all.

White is shooting 52% from 2-point this year, i.e inside the arc. 52.2% with Boston, 51.9% with the Spurs.  You can bet what you’d like, but those are the stats.

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #256 on: March 17, 2022, 12:45:56 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.
it's not just his 3 point shot that he's missing.  he's missing from everywhere.

Not everywhere.  52.2% from inside the arc.

That's actually better than Tatum, Smart, Schroder, Pritchard and Richardson.  White has sucked outside of 16 feet, but anything inside of that he's been good.

Inside the arc and inside of the paint should be separated. I believe White shoots 52% from inside of the paint, but inside of the Arc I would bet his percentages are poor since he doesn’t have a midrange shot, at all.

White is shooting 52% from 2-point this year, i.e inside the arc. 52.2% with Boston, 51.9% with the Spurs.  You can bet what you’d like, but those are the stats.

Basically he's money in the paint (.561) and the FT circle - and mediocre everywhere else. So he definitely has an effective midrange shot in that part of the floor.

His 3-pt shooting is not uniformly awful, by the way; at 10 o'clock (right wing above the break) he's shooting .333 - not great, but not a bad use of a possession, since it's an eFG% of .500; it's the old NBA saying, "A possession is a point".

His FTr is quite good at .256, and in Boston he's shooting .819, which is grade-A+. Both numbers were higher this season in San Antonio, so maybe we'll see better than these already excellent numbers as he gets used to the Celtics offensive ecosystem. Remember that drawing fouls helps the whole team shoot FT's, and Boston is currently #3 in the league at FT%.

I haven't seen anyone mention about his TOV%, which is outstanding at 8.9% with Boston.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #257 on: March 17, 2022, 02:54:11 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.
it's not just his 3 point shot that he's missing.  he's missing from everywhere.

Not everywhere.  52.2% from inside the arc.

That's actually better than Tatum, Smart, Schroder, Pritchard and Richardson.  White has sucked outside of 16 feet, but anything inside of that he's been good.

Inside the arc and inside of the paint should be separated. I believe White shoots 52% from inside of the paint, but inside of the Arc I would bet his percentages are poor since he doesn’t have a midrange shot, at all.

White is shooting 52% from 2-point this year, i.e inside the arc. 52.2% with Boston, 51.9% with the Spurs.  You can bet what you’d like, but those are the stats.

Basically he's money in the paint (.561) and the FT circle - and mediocre everywhere else. So he definitely has an effective midrange shot in that part of the floor.

His 3-pt shooting is not uniformly awful, by the way; at 10 o'clock (right wing above the break) he's shooting .333 - not great, but not a bad use of a possession, since it's an eFG% of .500; it's the old NBA saying, "A possession is a point".

His FTr is quite good at .256, and in Boston he's shooting .819, which is grade-A+. Both numbers were higher this season in San Antonio, so maybe we'll see better than these already excellent numbers as he gets used to the Celtics offensive ecosystem. Remember that drawing fouls helps the whole team shoot FT's, and Boston is currently #3 in the league at FT%.

I haven't seen anyone mention about his TOV%, which is outstanding at 8.9% with Boston.

56% is money in the paint? i get we're looking for any port in a storm for White, but that's a lil bit of a reach....

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #258 on: March 17, 2022, 02:58:04 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.

I think Zach Lowe's comments in this article basically sum up my feelings on White and the trade, and speak to what you're getting at....

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2022/02/13/celtics-trade-deadline-reaction-derrick-white-daniel-theis-josh-richardson-dennis-schroder/

Quote
“Derrick White is a good player,” Lowe said. “He’s 27 years old. His Spurs-iness – he moves around a lot, he’s a quick decision-maker, he’s unselfish – is exactly what the Celtics need between (Jayson) Tatum and (Jaylen) Brown. That’s exactly the player they need. Just keep it moving.

“I just wish he shot it better. I think he’s 31 percent from deep this year and he’s average/below-average for his career. The Celtics are dying, dying for one killer shooter around those guys. And I think he’s got three more years left on his contract that’s got $16, $17 million a pop. As evidenced by the fact that the Celtics traded two draft assets for him, it does have market value. I just don’t think it’s a great contract.

“I think he’s a good player. I think he’ll help the Celtics. Defensively, he’ll make them even better but they’re already elite defensively – I think they’re third or fourth in the league in points allowed per possession. Offensively, maybe his passing, juice, and ball movement will help them out. I just wish he shot it better.

“I’m not sure I would’ve done this trade. Josh Richardson’s been playing well too. … You get some long-term certainty with Derrick White. You get him through his prime, he’s 27 years old. I just wish he could shoot it better. I’m not sure if I would’ve done this trade if I was Boston. Maybe I would have and just said ‘It’s just the 16th pick in the draft and swapped rights, it’s not that big of a deal.’ I’m not overjoyed about it.”


Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #259 on: March 17, 2022, 08:40:04 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.
it's not just his 3 point shot that he's missing.  he's missing from everywhere.

Not everywhere.  52.2% from inside the arc.

That's actually better than Tatum, Smart, Schroder, Pritchard and Richardson.  White has sucked outside of 16 feet, but anything inside of that he's been good.

Inside the arc and inside of the paint should be separated. I believe White shoots 52% from inside of the paint, but inside of the Arc I would bet his percentages are poor since he doesn’t have a midrange shot, at all.

White is shooting 52% from 2-point this year, i.e inside the arc. 52.2% with Boston, 51.9% with the Spurs.  You can bet what you’d like, but those are the stats.

Basically he's money in the paint (.561) and the FT circle - and mediocre everywhere else. So he definitely has an effective midrange shot in that part of the floor.

His 3-pt shooting is not uniformly awful, by the way; at 10 o'clock (right wing above the break) he's shooting .333 - not great, but not a bad use of a possession, since it's an eFG% of .500; it's the old NBA saying, "A possession is a point".

His FTr is quite good at .256, and in Boston he's shooting .819, which is grade-A+. Both numbers were higher this season in San Antonio, so maybe we'll see better than these already excellent numbers as he gets used to the Celtics offensive ecosystem. Remember that drawing fouls helps the whole team shoot FT's, and Boston is currently #3 in the league at FT%.

I haven't seen anyone mention about his TOV%, which is outstanding at 8.9% with Boston.

56% is money in the paint? i get we're looking for any port in a storm for White, but that's a lil bit of a reach....

That's for the back half of the paint and the FT circle, so basically like 8 out to 18 ft. straight on, he's shot 42/75. Yes, that is a very good use of possessions on short to long midrange. That does not apply to his shooting on either wing at any distance. In any case 56% is 1.12 points per shot, so yeah, that is definitely good money for midrange shooting.

That's outside of the restricted area, where he is .682 in Boston - an outstanding number, by the way; he's been an excellent finisher. Interesting that he's been a level better there in Boston than he was in San Antonio.

I don't know what you mean by "any port in a storm" - you've got some other context for these numbers than I do, apparently. My point was that he's been really good in a fairly specific part of the floor. Someone claimed that he wasn't a good midrange shooter, for example, and someone else was pointing out his excellent overall 2pt%; and I wanted to clarify the reality. He's been really good in the paint and at the rim; his 3pt shooting has been bad on the whole, except at 10 o'clock, where it's been acceptable.

Again, he's been an A+ FT shooter who gets to the line at a good clip - people usually aren't including free throws in their shooting/scoring discussions, except as an afterthought.

You can bet your season tickets that the coaching staff are tracking this stuff.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 09:41:05 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #260 on: March 17, 2022, 09:00:09 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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White last night 0-8 overall, 0-5 from 3.  Down to 22.6% from 3 while with the Celtics.  He was having trouble hitting the rim.

Time to break out the sports phycologist or maybe a hypnotist.  Some form of intervention is needed.

He did everything else well.  Shooting is way off right now, but he’s still a better fit as a PG than Schröder.  I will agree he’s not playing like a guy worth a 1st and a swap, but I’d still rather have our post-deadline roster than our pre-deadline roster.  The ball moves with White, even if sometimes that movement results with him bricking a wide-open shot.

Yeah, he defends, passes, penetrates, gets to the line, and generally hits his shots from inside the arc.  My guess is that if you tracked his movement, he'd be near the top on the team.  He's reportedly good in the locker room.

It's just his three point shot that is broken.  I suspect he's inside his own head a bit.

I think Zach Lowe's comments in this article basically sum up my feelings on White and the trade, and speak to what you're getting at....

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2022/02/13/celtics-trade-deadline-reaction-derrick-white-daniel-theis-josh-richardson-dennis-schroder/

Quote
“Derrick White is a good player,” Lowe said. “He’s 27 years old. His Spurs-iness – he moves around a lot, he’s a quick decision-maker, he’s unselfish – is exactly what the Celtics need between (Jayson) Tatum and (Jaylen) Brown. That’s exactly the player they need. Just keep it moving.

“I just wish he shot it better. I think he’s 31 percent from deep this year and he’s average/below-average for his career. The Celtics are dying, dying for one killer shooter around those guys. And I think he’s got three more years left on his contract that’s got $16, $17 million a pop. As evidenced by the fact that the Celtics traded two draft assets for him, it does have market value. I just don’t think it’s a great contract.

“I think he’s a good player. I think he’ll help the Celtics. Defensively, he’ll make them even better but they’re already elite defensively – I think they’re third or fourth in the league in points allowed per possession. Offensively, maybe his passing, juice, and ball movement will help them out. I just wish he shot it better.

“I’m not sure I would’ve done this trade. Josh Richardson’s been playing well too. … You get some long-term certainty with Derrick White. You get him through his prime, he’s 27 years old. I just wish he could shoot it better. I’m not sure if I would’ve done this trade if I was Boston. Maybe I would have and just said ‘It’s just the 16th pick in the draft and swapped rights, it’s not that big of a deal.’ I’m not overjoyed about it.”

Actually Boston is now 1st in defensive points per possession, so more elite than brother Zach was thinking - and that's in no small part due to the contributions of DWhite. But have we not noticed how much better the offense is running? He's less ball-dominant than Schroeder, and turns it over (unlike Dennis) at an outstandingly low rate. More man movement and more ball movement. Josh Richardson shot better from 3 but Derrick makes the whole team offense better.

I suppose Zach wrote this before we got to see how well this is working out. Just a really savvy set of moves by the Boston braintrust.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 09:44:40 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #261 on: March 18, 2022, 11:56:54 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Derrick has no Arc on his shot. Look at a Pritchard 3 and then one of Whites. That’s his problem. The angle is terrible. Where is Drew Hanlen at?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 12:22:04 AM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #262 on: March 20, 2022, 10:09:07 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Two guys on the team minus tonight despite this stellar performance in Denver: Theis and White.

But they make everyone else soooooo much better!!

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #263 on: March 20, 2022, 10:18:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Two guys on the team minus tonight despite this stellar performance in Denver: Theis and White.

But they make everyone else soooooo much better!!
Celtics are 10-3 since the deadline, just blew out another playoff team on the road, Theis and White had productive time in this game, and all you can do is come here and complain about their +/- tonight?

Okay, I give in to you. You changed my mind. The trades sucked. White and Theis are trash. Stevens is terrible. Udoka is awful. This team could have been playing so much better if only Richardson, Langford and Schröder were still here.

I'm outta this thread.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 10:28:47 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #264 on: March 20, 2022, 10:26:50 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Every win of course gets us closer to home court advantage for the playoffs, but it also takes the sting out of the White purchase price.... the Spurs can have the 25th pick quite frankly...
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #265 on: March 20, 2022, 10:42:03 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Two guys on the team minus tonight despite this stellar performance in Denver: Theis and White.

But they make everyone else soooooo much better!!
Celtics are 10-3 since the deadline, just blew out another playoff team on the road, Theis and White had productive time in this game, and all you can do is come here and complain about their +/- tonight?

Okay, I give in to you. You changed my mind. The trades sucked. White and Theis are trash. Stevens is terrible. Udoka is awful. This team could have been playing so much better if only Richardson, Langford and Schröder were still here.

I'm outta this thread.

Man, do you need a box of tissues or what? Considering your deep acumen on the team, presumably you don’t actually believe the Cs late success is due to — instead of in spite of — Stevens weak trades.

In which case, if you just don’t like any negativity, why read it and / or comment at all?

I happen to have strong concern about the very obvious problem White has become, and how he may very well need to be removed from the playoffs rotation due to the liability he represents offensively. What coach is going to bother defending him? The Cs essentially play 4 on 5 when he’s on the floor.



Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #266 on: March 20, 2022, 10:44:09 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Every win of course gets us closer to home court advantage for the playoffs, but it also takes the sting out of the White purchase price.... the Spurs can have the 25th pick quite frankly...

worth pointing out Williams, Williams and Pritchard — all of whom are better than White — are on rookie deals from such late 1sts.

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #267 on: March 20, 2022, 10:47:21 PM »

Offline seancally

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Two guys on the team minus tonight despite this stellar performance in Denver: Theis and White.

But they make everyone else soooooo much better!!
Celtics are 10-3 since the deadline, just blew out another playoff team on the road, Theis and White had productive time in this game, and all you can do is come here and complain about their +/- tonight?

Okay, I give in to you. You changed my mind. The trades sucked. White and Theis are trash. Stevens is terrible. Udoka is awful. This team could have been playing so much better if only Richardson, Langford and Schröder were still here.

I'm outta this thread.

Man, do you need a box of tissues or what? Considering your deep acumen on the team, presumably you don’t actually believe the Cs late success is due to — instead of in spite of — Stevens weak trades.

In which case, if you just don’t like any negativity, why read it and / or comment at all?

I happen to have strong concern about the very obvious problem White has become, and how he may very well need to be removed from the playoffs rotation due to the liability he represents offensively. What coach is going to bother defending him? The Cs essentially play 4 on 5 when he’s on the floor.

Idk Richardson and Schroeder were on the roster in the beginning of the season when the team was below .500. I’ll take the current version over the former.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #268 on: March 20, 2022, 10:48:06 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Every win of course gets us closer to home court advantage for the playoffs, but it also takes the sting out of the White purchase price.... the Spurs can have the 25th pick quite frankly...

worth pointing out Williams, Williams and Pritchard — all of whom are better than White — are on rookie deals from such late 1sts.
and that Josh Richardson has 22 points tonight -- 7-11, 2-4 from 3. 2 rbs, 1 stl, 1 ast.
Derrick White had 6 points. 0-2 from 3.  1 rb and 3 asst. 

yeah, White was so worth what we paid.  ::)

Re: Celtics trade grades?
« Reply #269 on: March 20, 2022, 10:49:49 PM »

Offline liam

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Every win of course gets us closer to home court advantage for the playoffs, but it also takes the sting out of the White purchase price.... the Spurs can have the 25th pick quite frankly...

worth pointing out Williams, Williams and Pritchard — all of whom are better than White — are on rookie deals from such late 1sts.

Theis gives us the third big we needed and White will come around. White is still passing, driving and defending at a high level. The trade grade is still incomplete but we are playing much better since the trade.