Celtics trade grades?

[gouki88]

Lost in the shuffle of Tatum's ascension is the continued ridiculousness of Steven's trade deadline.

Other than setting a decent screen or two, Theis is a g-league player who is drastically overpaid for years to come. if he plays significant minutes coming down the stretch this season, your team is screwed.

And the Cs at this point would be better off with Richardson coming off the bench (and Langford as wing insurance) than White -- not even factoring the picks given up for a guy who can barely crack 20 mins a game, much less his pricey long-term contract.

The Cs are going to need every asset they can muster to make moves this summer. Instead of assets for Schroder, Stevens got the opposite. And on White, Stevens simply overreached pretty badly when he should have waited until summer.

We made the ECF with Theis playing 30MPG, yet we're "screwed" if he plays significant minutes? Would like to see some reasoning behind this catastrophising.

You're weirdly conflating Stevens and Ime. Blaming Brad for the trade because White "can barely crack 20 mins" (he averages 26.3MPG as a Celtic, FYI) when it is Ime's decision.

[todd_days_41]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Why is it incontrovertible? Seems far from it, honestly.

Example: neither White nor Theis had any notable impact on today's game with BKN. What could Richardson, Schroder and / or Fernando not have accomplished that White or Theis did? Nada.

In what ways are they discernibly better? Like, actual ways.... not tales of chemistry and fit.

[slamtheking]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Why is it incontrovertible? Seems far from it, honestly.

Example: neither White nor Theis had any notable impact on today's game with BKN. What could Richardson, Schroder and / or Fernando not have accomplished that White or Theis did? Nada.

In what ways are they discernibly better? Like, actual ways.... not tales of chemistry and fit.

agreed - it's not incontrovertible.  I still don't see the fascination for White and seeing that deal as a serious overpayment right now.  While I can get behind the idea of moving Schroder having a positive impact on our offense and ball movement, I don't see that with the loss of Richardson.  White is not providing nearly what we gave up in Richardson and Romeo and the subsequent trade of Schroder who was deemed expendable with the acquisition of White. 

[Big333223]

I know that Schroder and Richardson were sent out in separate deals, but I still see Derrick White as a kind of consolidation of those two. He's a comparable offensive player to Schroder while also being a comparable defender to Richardson. The Celtics rotation has replaced two quarters with a 50-cent piece.

[JSD]

Still not convinced this is the correct path, as far as not preserving a max slot/player to put next to Tatum and JB, but I feel a lot better about it now than I did before.

Maybe Ainge's mentality was dated, and the league as shifted in a way that having a few superstars and multiple mid range contracts/talents around those two players has become a recipe for success?

[MickaelPietrus]

Romeo + JRich + our 1st + a swap for Derrick Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing White Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. Most irresponsible trade I've seen in a while. JRich for White alone we would prob be getting the shorter end of the stick

[slamtheking]

I know that Schroder and Richardson were sent out in separate deals, but I still see Derrick White as a kind of consolidation of those two. He's a comparable offensive player to Schroder while also being a comparable defender to Richardson. The Celtics rotation has replaced two quarters with a 50-cent piece.

he's not comparable to Richardson at all.  he's a better ball handler and passer but his shooting has been significantly worse.  his D has been fine. 

my biggest gripe, other than the fact we seriously overpaid, is that he's not a real offensive threat.  Schroder could go off for 20 in a game as could Richardson.  White, not at all.   

[Roy H.]

my biggest gripe, other than the fact we seriously overpaid, is that he's not a real offensive threat.  Schroder could go off for 20 in a game as could Richardson.  White, not at all.

Richardson only scored 20+ twice all season.  White will start producing more I suspect.

[pokeKingCurtis]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Why is it incontrovertible? Seems far from it, honestly.

Example: neither White nor Theis had any notable impact on today's game with BKN. What could Richardson, Schroder and / or Fernando not have accomplished that White or Theis did? Nada.

In what ways are they discernibly better? Like, actual ways.... not tales of chemistry and fit.

Chemistry is a bit BS. Kind of like the narrative of "oh you need a top 10 player or top whatever" and then all those coversations about "oh is this guy top 10, not really I feel like he's top 11 cos here's 10 other guys who's better than him" (and bound to end up going "but playoffs and rings and legacy"). But that's another conversation for anotehr day.

Eye test is a bit better because usually by the end of the season someone probably ends up saying "hey you're right these advanced stats show this" or "no you're way off".

Eye test tells me that I hate the way Schroeder plays, even though he can score 20 points. I think the metrics show he's good but not great? White, though, I don't wanna smash my screen in when I watch him play. Hopefully some stats people can tell us at the end of the season White has been doing better on the C's than Schroeder.

[Muzzy66]

Still not convinced this is the correct path, as far as not preserving a max slot/player to put next to Tatum and JB, but I feel a lot better about it now than I did before.

Maybe Ainge's mentality was dated, and the league as shifted in a way that having a few superstars and multiple mid range contracts/talents around those two players has become a recipe for success?

There is no one size fits all for building a contender. 

I've never understood the way people here cling to this "we need a 3rd big star to compete".

Boston kinda started the modern "big 3" thing in 2008 and they got a title for it...but they didn't have just any big 3.  They had the best shooter in the NBA, one of the best (and most clutch) scorers in the NBA, and a defensive player of the year - and any one of those guys was capable of scoring 30 on any given night, and were coming to Boston after being the #1 options on their own teams.  Not only that, but it also happened at the perfect time - when all three guys had achieved their individual accolades, and were at a point in their careers where all they genuinely cared about was winning a championship...and they were willing to do whatever it took.

Boston's big 3 collaboration was kinda like taking a prime Giannis, a prime Steph Curry and prime Jimmy Butler and throwing them on the same team at a point when all either one of them cares about is winning a title.

Likewise Lebron, Wade and Bosh / Love, or Steph, Klay and KD.  These aren't just your regular "big 3" rosters.  There are "two MVP candidates and a perennial all-star" type scenarios.  And even then Boston only got one ring, Lebron failed a number of times, and the Warriors got knocked off once too. 

A big 3 arrangement like this is I think very tough to pull off.  First you need to try and get 3 guys of THAT talent level together in the first place. Then you need to get them at a point in time when they are willing to sacrifice their own personal glory for the good of the team.  Then you need to hope and pray and one or two fo them dont have major injury problems (e.g. Brooklyn, Lakers) - because when you depend THAT heavily on three guys, loose two and it's all over.

I honestly believe that teams would be much more likely to have a good shot if they have two big stars, and then divide that 3rd potential max salary slot over 2 or 3 really good role players to build a team that's well rounded and deep.  That way even if one of your star guys gets hurt, there's a greater chance that the rest of the team collectively can hold help down the fort.

[gouki88]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Why is it incontrovertible? Seems far from it, honestly.

Example: neither White nor Theis had any notable impact on today's game with BKN. What could Richardson, Schroder and / or Fernando not have accomplished that White or Theis did? Nada.

In what ways are they discernibly better? Like, actual ways.... not tales of chemistry and fit.

In the most discernible way possible - record.

[RockinRyA]

my biggest gripe, other than the fact we seriously overpaid, is that he's not a real offensive threat.  Schroder could go off for 20 in a game as could Richardson.  White, not at all.

Richardson only scored 20+ twice all season.  White will start producing more I suspect.

yeah white had 9 20 pt games this season alone.

[todd_days_41]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Why is it incontrovertible? Seems far from it, honestly.

Example: neither White nor Theis had any notable impact on today's game with BKN. What could Richardson, Schroder and / or Fernando not have accomplished that White or Theis did? Nada.

In what ways are they discernibly better? Like, actual ways.... not tales of chemistry and fit.

In the most discernible way possible - record.

So White and Theis are causing the Cs to win? More so that Richardson and Schroder? In some clear way? Hogwash. The Cs had won something like 7-8 in a row immediately before the deadline.

[gift]

my biggest gripe, other than the fact we seriously overpaid, is that he's not a real offensive threat.  Schroder could go off for 20 in a game as could Richardson.  White, not at all.

Richardson only scored 20+ twice all season.  White will start producing more I suspect.

yeah white had 9 20 pt games this season alone.

As a featured guy on a lottery team.

[slamtheking]

my biggest gripe, other than the fact we seriously overpaid, is that he's not a real offensive threat.  Schroder could go off for 20 in a game as could Richardson.  White, not at all.

Richardson only scored 20+ twice all season.  White will start producing more I suspect.

yeah white had 9 20 pt games this season alone.

As a featured guy on a lottery team.

yup.  big difference putting up points on a team with few other options to do so and putting them up on a team with other options.  Schroder showed he was capable of providing that third scorer when one of the J's wasn't having a good night.  He did tend to be a ball stopper but he was still someone the defense had to respect.  Same with Richardson even though he didn't put up many 20 point games, he was a threat on the floor to score.  White isn't showing that.  I hope that changes.  I really, really do because the J's by themselves aren't enough to carry the offense every night in the playoffs.