Am I only one?

[nickagneta]

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Rather the opposite. I've decided that NOT giving the young guys playing time guarantees they won't develop into something better.

We clearly don't have any young players like Ayo Dosunmu in Chicago, who started out barely getting any minutes and just clawed his way past the rotation players in his way. Most players can't do that.

The key thing here is that a player on  a rookie deal that performs nearly as well as a vet is far more valuable. It is nearly impossible to win a title if we continue to fail developing draft talent. We obviously can't get lucky with every guy, but we have to do better than we've done the past 4 years.

We've developed Timelord and Grant in that time. Tatum went from rookie to 3 time All-Star in that time.

You can't hit on everyone and it's not like PP, Romeo and Nesmith haven't been given opportunities to consistently shine. At some point, you have to move on. Not every guy develops into something. Giving them playing time simply to prove to fans what the coaches may already know does not help the team.

[Who]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

What about Richardson's play is unsustainable though?

[Surferdad]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

Regarding Schroder, letting him leave for nothing is not a big loss.  He was a one-season rental, so you aren’t losing anything.  He is much more valuable RIGHT NOW.  Ime is basically only playing 8 guys, his playoff rotation. Trade DS now and you are giving up on the season, frankly. That will be a worse outcome for the Jays and could cause them to consider if they want to be here long-term. Are you willing to risk that?

[Who]

What about Richardson's play is unsustainable though?

He couldn't even get on the court in Dallas because his 3 point shooting was so undependable. He shot only 33% the year prior in Philly and 34% in Miami the year before that.

He is hitting 40% from 3 now in Boston. Is that something we can depend on the years ahead? Maybe, maybe not.

If his three point shooting does fall off, his attractiveness as a trade asset will go way down.

[Who]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

Regarding Schroder, letting him leave for nothing is not a big loss.  He was a one-season rental, so you aren’t losing anything.  He is much more valuable RIGHT NOW.  Ime is basically only playing 8 guys, his playoff rotation. Trade DS now and you are giving up on the season, frankly. That will be a worse outcome for the Jays and could cause them to consider if they want to be here long-term. Are you willing to risk that?

Yes because the main risk is not this season. It is next season and season after that. It is about putting the pieces in place for those seasons. Those will the years that make or break the duo Jays in Boston.

And you are losing on Schroder walking away with nothing in return because you could have traded him now and picked up an asset ... likely only a 2nd rounder but that is a 2nd rounder that you now do not have moving forward.

[Surferdad]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

Regarding Schroder, letting him leave for nothing is not a big loss.  He was a one-season rental, so you aren’t losing anything.  He is much more valuable RIGHT NOW.  Ime is basically only playing 8 guys, his playoff rotation. Trade DS now and you are giving up on the season, frankly. That will be a worse outcome for the Jays and could cause them to consider if they want to be here long-term. Are you willing to risk that?

Yes because the main risk is not this season. It is next season and season after that. It is about putting the pieces in place for those seasons. Those will the years that make or break the duo Jays in Boston.

And you are losing on Schroder walking away with nothing in return because you could have traded him now and picked up an asset ... likely only a 2nd rounder but that is a 2nd rounder that you now do not have moving forward.

Well i just disagree that that 2nd rounder will turn out to be anything useful. Heck we have 2 recent 1st rounders on the roster right now that don’t look like real NBA players.

[Who]

Yup. You're all alone.

Fair point. Nothing but respect.

I sleep on the couch many nights … so I totally get having my point of view not adopted by others.

You may be only one, but that's because you are not expecting anything in return.  I mean, at least get a body or two to help with this playoff push because that's exactly why DS will not be traded and likely why J-Rich will not be traded.  c's have a good thing going right now. They are blowing out teams (don't bring up level of competition, these are NBA teams).  They have the best defensive rating since early January.  The playoffs are very important the Jays.  I want to protect those two guys more than anything else.

You don't protect them by prioritizing the short term results over the long term results. You keep them here by prioritizing medium to long term Championship hopes over short term playoff runs.

Having this incorrect focus is how teams lose their star players. They waste their assets on short term needs instead of having a long term focus.

Seems you have decided that giving the young guys playing time guarantees they develop into something better than the players you are trading away. That simply isn't a guarantee.

Trading away good players to give young players playing time to develop may result in the fans knowing something the coaches and organization already know, that the three young guys are never going to be good enough to be playoff rotational players.

Why do fans always assume that just playing young guys develops them? Why do fans need to be shown certain young players suck and just won't accept that coaches and GMs see players in practices and scrimmages all the time and have a much better handle on how good players are that aren't getting playing time?

I have seen little to nothing that convinced me that any of the three young players will make a jump to be as good as Richardson and Schröder anytime before their rookie deal is done, regardless of how much playing time they get.

The time for developing 3-6 young players on the roster is OVER! It's time to surround the Jays with other stars and veteran playoff caliber rotational pieces, not players with possibly little to no developmental arc that could very well turn into a complete nothingburger.

Not about the young guys.

I'd just rather pick up an asset which may be of use down the road than let Schroder leave with nothing in return this summer (and I do not want to re-sign him either). Better to have that long term asset (even one of low value) than a short term asset with no long term value.

Less concerned about moving Josh Richardson right away but I'd be happy if we did because it meant we got an asset for him. I do not have much trust in him given his inconsistent performances over the last 3 years. So I'd rather take an asset for him than bet on him continuing his fine play.

Regarding Schroder, letting him leave for nothing is not a big loss.  He was a one-season rental, so you aren’t losing anything.  He is much more valuable RIGHT NOW.  Ime is basically only playing 8 guys, his playoff rotation. Trade DS now and you are giving up on the season, frankly. That will be a worse outcome for the Jays and could cause them to consider if they want to be here long-term. Are you willing to risk that?

Yes because the main risk is not this season. It is next season and season after that. It is about putting the pieces in place for those seasons. Those will the years that make or break the duo Jays in Boston.

And you are losing on Schroder walking away with nothing in return because you could have traded him now and picked up an asset ... likely only a 2nd rounder but that is a 2nd rounder that you now do not have moving forward.

Well i just disagree that that 2nd rounder will turn out to be anything useful. Heck we have 2 recent 1st rounders on the roster right now that don’t look like real NBA players.

Yes. It is a low value asset so it is not the end of the world if they do not move Schroder on but I would prefer to have it than not have it. More to throw into a trade than keep and use.

[pokeKingCurtis]

What about Richardson's play is unsustainable though?

He couldn't even get on the court in Dallas because his 3 point shooting was so undependable. He shot only 33% the year prior in Philly and 34% in Miami the year before that.

He is hitting 40% from 3 now in Boston. Is that something we can depend on the years ahead? Maybe, maybe not.

If his three point shooting does fall off, his attractiveness as a trade asset will go way down.

Fair enough. What I see is just a dude who picks his spots and lets the game come to him, doesnt look like he's doing anything above and beyond his talent from the eye test.

But fair enough, the numbers are a bit much here.

[johnnygreen]

Why are fans so concerned about the team getting under the luxury line before the trade deadline? It's not like the team will sign (or will even be able to) a major free agent in the off-season.

This is a Boston Celtics fan website. It feels like we just accept mediocrity, while boasting about how great the team was in the past. What about the present?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Why are fans so concerned about the team getting under the luxury line before the trade deadline? It's not like the team will sign (or will even be able to) a major free agent in the off-season.

This is a Boston Celtics fan website. It feels like we just accept mediocrity, while boasting about how great the team was in the past. What about the present?

Cos it's ammunition for next year. Go big or go home, rather than pay tax for a 2nd round exit and limit the amount of years you're elite.

[Muzzy66]

I'm with you on the starting Grant Williams part - I feel it's going to be very hard to see consistent success with Smart, Horford and Timelord all on the court at the same time as pretty much non threats from outside. 

Grant is certainly no stud, but if there's one thing he's done very well (and consistently) this year it's make open threes. He's shooting 43% from three for the season, and having him out there to stretch the floor IMHO could really help to open the lane up a little more for Tatum and Brown.

My reason for not wanting to ditch Schroeder and Richardson are similar. Out higher percentage three point shooters this year have been:

1. Grant Williams (43%)
2. Josh Richardson (40%)
3. Payton Pritchard (37%)
4. Romeo Langford (35.5%)
= 5. Jaylen Brown (35%)
= 5. Dennis Schroeder (35%)

This team has shot 34% from three for the season, which is 22nd overall.  I think that has really hurt the team' success in a big way, and I can only imagine how much worse that would get if we send off two of our top six outside shooters.  Unless we manage to bring back an excellent shooter or two in return to fill the void I don't like it.

[Celtics4ever]

Grant Williams has averaged 10.6 points, 4.5 rebounds and 0.9 assists in 13 games as a starter this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/grant-williams-starter-stats-2022

Grant would have problems on D as a starter, I think.  He has improved but still has trouble with bigger guys.   We have won 7 games as with him as a starter.

If you did this you could move Horford to the bench, and he might benefit from this at his age. 

If you play Nesmith, Romeo and Pritchard more you can kiss the recent win streak good bye.    Tightening the rotation has helped our defense rating, our offense rating etc.   Some of it is the weaker schedule some of it is playing our best players.

I for one would like to see us try to get a PF, for depth.   Whether he starts over Grant does not matter.    We need more depth in the bigs department or else we have to play Freedom.   I don't think Bruno is the answer.    That is why I found the Minny stuff interesting on trades for Vanderbuilt of Jaden McDaniels but I would not want to give up Smart.   Then again Hermangomez put up similar numbers last year and what a dud he ended up.   Maybe do a smaller trade, Schroder for a back up big or PF

[droopdog7]

 Nesmith has done nothing at all that suggests he should get any minutes

[timpiker]

Yes.