Author Topic: Post Godfather Offers for JB  (Read 8539 times)

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Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2022, 08:58:44 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Probably should be 'realistic' rather than 'godfather' offers or this thread is going to spiral out of control (as it already seems to be).

I know I will probably get crucified, but I'd probably do something like JB/Schroder for Simmons/Maxey/1st. Obviously there are any number of superstars that I'd take for Brown, but those guys aren't likely available. If Brown really is questioning his future in Boston - and the front office knows this - then this is the offseason to trade him in order to get the best return. We have lost way too much talent via straight FA in recent years, rather than sign and trade. If Brown wants an extension, though, even better.

I with you on Ben Simmons too. However, I'm not meeting Philly's lofty demands. If anything, I think Brown has more value at this point, and it should be Brown for Simmons and a first. Also, I  would want to be able to talk to Simmons and see him practice before making a deal.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2022, 09:16:24 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Jaylen to TOR and a pick swap 1 that can be used in 2022 or 2023

Trent, Barnes and Boucher to Boston

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2022, 09:32:43 AM »

Offline td450

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Logically speaking, if the franchise is in a state where it can't retain Jaylen Brown due to front office and coaching incompetence, there isn't any workaround for that.  If he pushes for a trade, the C's are doomed.

Its hard to see how one trade under such conditions could put enough shine on this thing to keep Tatum the next year.

I don't see how the franchise can entertain going in reverse at this point, and rebuild.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2022, 09:33:22 AM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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 Dude what? BROWN plus Horford plus Roneo plus two Firsts for Fox and Sabonis? That's not Godfather deal, that's GodFocker deal.

Really?
1. Both sides have to want to make a deal.
2. Let’s say Jaylen is a top 20-25 player in the league. Sabonis is somewhere in the 25-35 range. Fox is probably in the 35-45 range. If I’m trading Jaylen, I need 2 guys back close to his level that maybe slot in around Tatum a little better. If you have to give more to do that, so be it. This deal accomplishes that.
3. Romeo has no value. Let’s be generous and say he’s worth a mid-2nd.
4. Horford has no value because of his contract. Let’s be generous and say he’s net neutral for the Pacers as $ matching.
5. Fox + the Kings lotto pick this year is a reasonable offer for Jaylen. I don’t see the Kings giving more than that. I wouldn’t do that deal in isolation, but when paired with a Sabonis deal our team could be dangerous, in their prime, and locked in on long-term contracts.
6. Pacers want 2 2nds for Holiday. There’s no way they’d trade Sabonis for anything less than 2 good firsts. Here they get 3 firsts, Romeo (2nd round value), and Horford’s contract to match $. You’re not getting Sabonis for less than that.

Fox is nowhere near a top 35 player.  There are at least a dozen point guards better than him. He's literally a league average point guard

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2022, 09:48:48 AM »

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 OG Ananoby and Scottie Barnes and One First for JKJB
Timelord
Scottie Barnes
Tatum
Ananoby
Smart

That looks like an extremely well balanced team on paper. Defensive Monster. And Barnes passing ability and unselfish play would change the dynamic completely.

That is an interesting idea. I am not sure what to think of it from Toronto's perspective. Would I rather build around:

(1) VanVleet + Jaylen + Siakam
(2) VanVleet + S.Barnes + Anunoby + Siakam

Strangely enough, I am not sure Jaylen is an upgrade for them. I say strangely because Anunoby is more of an above average starter than a star and Scottie Barnes is an encouraging prospect more than a certified star. Still, though ... something feels off.

I wonder = if I am Toronto and I consolidate by trading those two guys, I expect a bigger star back in return than Jaylen Brown. I want more. Jaylen isn't enough.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2022, 09:55:45 AM »

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 OG Ananoby and Scottie Barnes and One First for JKJB
Timelord
Scottie Barnes
Tatum
Ananoby
Smart

That looks like an extremely well balanced team on paper. Defensive Monster. And Barnes passing ability and unselfish play would change the dynamic completely.

That is a cool team for Boston. I would enjoy that group.

That is like having two Marcus Smarts in Smart & Anunoby doing elite glue guy type of stuff. Rob Williams as an athletic rim runner and interior defender.

Jayson Tatum as a Carmelo Anthony type scoring star. Scottie Barnes as an Andre Iguodala to Scottie Pippen type star. I like the balance / counter-balancing of that duo.

That would be a great group to build around. Amazing athleticism, tough defense, stick-to-it-iveness. Lots of unselfish players around Tatum. Team first guys.

--------------------------

On second thought, I wonder if it is too much a 90s or 00s type team. Too much defense not enough shooting / offense.

I am thinking back to my previous criticisms of Smart + Rob Williams in the same team being too limited offensively to play together on a title contender - with the exception of having three elite scorer / shooters next to them which this group does not have.

I wonder if at some point you have to upgrade Smart for more of an offensive minded PG be it a scorer or balanced offensive PG (as opposed to a defensive minded PG like Smart).

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2022, 09:58:18 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Logically speaking, if the franchise is in a state where it can't retain Jaylen Brown due to front office and coaching incompetence, there isn't any workaround for that.  If he pushes for a trade, the C's are doomed.

Its hard to see how one trade under such conditions could put enough shine on this thing to keep Tatum the next year.

I don't see how the franchise can entertain going in reverse at this point, and rebuild.

Agreed -- if Brown asks out, Tatum will not be far behind.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2022, 09:58:52 AM »

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Brown for Halliburton and Barnes

Brown for herro and Robinson

Both Miami and Sac probably say no

Man, how awesome would that Miami team be!

Lowry + Jaylen + Jimmy Butler + Adebayo

What a four man group to build around. As good as any in the league. Definite title contender. I don't understand why you think Miami would say no to that. That is an incredible opportunity for them.

I'd love to see Jaylen next to Jimmy. And Bam & Lowry too. Talk about hard-minded individuals. Jaylen would fit in so well next to those guys. The passing of those trio as well. And Jaylen gives them that dependable #2 scoring option next to Jimmy and lets Lowry and Bam take smaller more appropriate offensive roles. Beautiful.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2022, 10:03:59 AM »

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Logically speaking, if the franchise is in a state where it can't retain Jaylen Brown due to front office and coaching incompetence, there isn't any workaround for that.  If he pushes for a trade, the C's are doomed.

Its hard to see how one trade under such conditions could put enough shine on this thing to keep Tatum the next year.

I don't see how the franchise can entertain going in reverse at this point, and rebuild.

Agreed -- if Brown asks out, Tatum will not be far behind.

No, I disagree. I think it's fine (Jaylen leaving) so long as you can make a lateral move or even better an upgrade.

The odds of being able to make a lateral move are pretty solid because Jaylen is young, established, highly productive and on a great contract. There will be a strong trade market for him. Plus, he fits just about anywhere (unlike guys like Ben Simmons).

I only see this as a "lose Tatum" type situation if the front office decides to trade Jaylen for prospects and/or picks. A future based trade. A rebuilding trade. In this scenario, I do not see Tatum having the patience to wait through it. His contract expires at the wrong moment. He'll be evaluating his options and he'll likely decide he wants to spend his prime playing a Championship not waiting for kids to develop so he'll leave.

But like I said, I am very happy with the trade market for Jaylen Brown and the ability to make a sideways move (lateral trade) should Jaylen ever decide he wants out. I do not view that as a lose Tatum option. This is still "business as normal". Just a different route. Same goal, same timeline, different path forward.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2022, 10:07:06 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Brown and an asset or two for Donovan Mitchell.

Rumors he may want to leave Utah, and he's an East Coast kid (grew up outside New York, went to my alma mater for grade school in CT, and also HS in CT).


Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2022, 10:08:01 AM »

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An oldie but a goodie

Jaylen for Towns

Minnesota are playing better this season but they are still only .500. Towns is on the same road as Jaylen & Tatum where Towns will start looking around and wondering if he believes in this group competing for a title in the near future.

A lot of that will come down to the development of Anthony Edwards + the ability of the front office to put pieces around them.

Towns could quite easily become available in a trade in the next 18 months if Minnesota does not show substantial improvement. By that I mean a 50+ win team. If they are still around .500 next year, that will be Year 8 for Towns of never being close to even dreaming of playing for a title. Guys get that itch when they reach that point in their careers and do not see things coming together for them where they are.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2022, 10:08:29 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Logically speaking, if the franchise is in a state where it can't retain Jaylen Brown due to front office and coaching incompetence, there isn't any workaround for that.  If he pushes for a trade, the C's are doomed.

Its hard to see how one trade under such conditions could put enough shine on this thing to keep Tatum the next year.

I don't see how the franchise can entertain going in reverse at this point, and rebuild.

Agreed -- if Brown asks out, Tatum will not be far behind.

No, I disagree. I think it's fine (Jaylen leaving) so long as you can make a lateral move or even better an upgrade.

The odds of being able to make a lateral move are pretty solid because Jaylen is young, established, highly productive and on a great contract. There will be a strong trade market for him. Plus, he fits just about anywhere (unlike guys like Ben Simmons).

I only see this as a "lose Tatum" type situation if the front office decides to trade Jaylen for prospects and/or picks. A future based trade. A rebuilding trade. In this scenario, I do not see Tatum having the patience to wait through it. His contract expires at the wrong moment. He'll be evaluating his options and he'll likely decide he wants to spend his prime playing a Championship not waiting for kids to develop so he'll leave.

But like I said, I am very happy with the trade market for Jaylen Brown and the ability to make a sideways move (lateral trade) should Jaylen ever decide he wants out. I do not view that as a lose Tatum option. This is still "business as normal". Just a different route. Same goal, same timeline, different path forward.


if Jaylen is asking out what sort of team do you think is going to give the Celts a big haul that can then be put to the use of making the Celts competitive in the short term?

Teams that have to trade a core player because that player wants to leave don't typically get better afterward.

While Jaylen will have 2 years left on his deal as of this summer, meaning the Celts aren't in the worst position to negotiate a trade, they're also not in a great spot if Jaylen is asking out. 

You also have to factor in where Jaylen wants to go.  Again, two years left on his deal means he won't technically have much ability to dictate where he ends up. But if you're the Celtics and you've seen all manner of  talent go out the door over the last 5 years, can you really afford to reinforce the idea that you're not a franchise that does right by its players?  Sending Jaylen to some rebuilding team in a small market, if that's not the type of situation he wants to be in, would probably exacerbate that issue.


In short, I think you're glossing over what Jaylen asking out would say about the current state of the Celtics and also the perception of the team around the league that must exist already and will persist / worsen due to him asking out.  I really don't think it's as simple as just going "Oh, well, no biggie, let's just swap him for a comparable talent and see if that mix works better."
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2022, 10:11:22 AM »

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Brown and an asset or two for Donovan Mitchell.

Rumors he may want to leave Utah, and he's an East Coast kid (grew up outside New York, went to my alma mater for grade school in CT, and also HS in CT).

I really like the idea of Donovan Mitchell on this Celtics team. They desperately need a guy with his ball-handling, quickness and passing. Someone who can penetrate the defense and create ball movement. Get the ball zipping around the court.

I know his scoring isn't the most efficient but his team offense in terms of creating ball movement through dribble penetration is undervalued and something our team would benefit hugely from.

I like the duo of Tatum + Mitchell. A dynamic ball-handling guard and a dynamic sweet shooting forward. They would play well off one another and should develop a strong two-man game in the PnR in terms of forcing mismatches / causing problems for opponents.

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2022, 10:13:00 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Mitchell is unhappy on a winning Jazz team so he wants to go East to a .500 Celtics team in Boston? 

That strikes me as implausible.  Also going from Mitchell to Jaylen seems like a pretty significant downgrade for the Jazz.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Post Godfather Offers for JB
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2022, 10:13:43 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Brown and an asset or two for Donovan Mitchell.

Rumors he may want to leave Utah, and he's an East Coast kid (grew up outside New York, went to my alma mater for grade school in CT, and also HS in CT).

I really like the idea of Donovan Mitchell on this Celtics team. They desperately need a guy with his ball-handling, quickness and passing. Someone who can penetrate the defense and create ball movement. Get the ball zipping around the court.

I know his scoring isn't the most efficient but his team offense in terms of creating ball movement through dribble penetration is undervalued and something our team would benefit hugely from.

I like the duo of Tatum + Mitchell. A dynamic ball-handling guard and a dynamic sweet shooting forward. They would play well off one another and should develop a strong two-man game in the PnR in terms of forcing mismatches / causing problems for opponents.

I agree. I think Mitchell has quite a bit more market value Brown, but one wonders if Danny will see Jaylen as a binkie who could flourish in a clear-cut #1 role and reach a little on value in trade.

By the way, I love that one dumb clickbait report came about about Brown maybe asking out at some point and suddenly its a thing....