Observations structure Celtics roster

[RodyTur10]

The Celtics have:

• a core of four players (Tatum, Smart, Timelord, Brown) who all have estimated wins (EPM) of +4.4. The only other team in the league who has that is Chicago (DeRozan, LaVine, Vucevic, Ball). Of course there are teams with better stars or teams with more depth like Phoenix, Golden State or Memphis. Conclusion: our core seems to be pretty good when either Smart or Timelord is your 4th best player.
  

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• five players (Richardson, Horford, Smart, G-Will, Timelord) who have played a lot of minutes this season (800+) and take less than 12FGA per 36 min. We are the only team with five players who fit these constraints. Conclusion: the Celtics have a lot of regulars who just don't add a lot of scoring.
  

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• only two players (Tatum and Brown) who have played 600+ minutes and take 6+ 3PA per game. The only other teams who have just two, are teams with another offensive focal point who doesn't take many threes (perhaps surprising), namely Brooklyn (Durant), Indiana (Sabonis) and Washington (Beal). Conclusion: basically every team has multiple 3-point-threats outside their two best players, while the Celtics have none!!!
  

[PAOBoston]

Summary: Celtics have no shooting/scoring outside of the Jays

[Celtics2021]

Summary: Celtics have no shooting/scoring outside of the Jays

I’d say no consistent shooting/scoring.  Sometimes a guy might step up, but it’s never the same guy two nights in a row, and sometimes it’s no one.

[CBS_Take a Report]

I’m sorry to always go back to this but I think tying up a max spot in Jaylen Brown is a losing formula. Sure he has developed nicely but he is not a #2 on a championship team.

If we can somehow create cap space to solve the issues you highlight (shooting) plus solve the other glaring issues - point guard, front court depth, bench and role player upgrades - then sure keeping Brown as our #3 is a winning formula.

The areas I have issue with Jaylen:

1. His ball handling skills.
2. He is so mechanical and robotic.
3. He seems to slow down our offense as a result of #1 and 2.

I’m not trying to hate but I’m tired of the notion that he is a bonafide #2 on a championship team. He isn’t.

[LilRip]

Good observations and they confirm a lot of the eye test too. The tricky part is always “now what?” Because as it stands, this is a poorly balanced roster and one that is deficient in talent vs previous years.

[RodyTur10]

I’m sorry to always go back to this but I think tying up a max spot in Jaylen Brown is a losing formula. Sure he has developed nicely but he is not a #2 on a championship team.

If we can somehow create cap space to solve the issues you highlight (shooting) plus solve the other glaring issues - point guard, front court depth, bench and role player upgrades - then sure keeping Brown as our #3 is a winning formula.

The areas I have issue with Jaylen:

1. His ball handling skills.
2. He is so mechanical and robotic.
3. He seems to slow down our offense as a result of #1 and 2.

I’m not trying to hate but I’m tired of the notion that he is a bonafide #2 on a championship team. He isn’t.

1. Brown isn't on a max, in fact next season he'll probably won't be in the top 50 of best paid players.
2. While you can argue that Brown isn't good enough to be the second best player on a contender, I certainly have no issues with Brown being a #2 scoring option.
3. I doubt there's a better player than Brown on the market. Maybe Mitchell??? Would you offer Brown for either Lillard, Fox, Beal, Ingram, Simmons, Siakam or Sabonis?
4. Solving our shooting and bench issues should be the focus. Getting rid of Brown will only make our problems larger.

[Big333223]

Yeah, I like this core.

My dream is that there was a way to get a John Collins or a Pascal Siakam for a Horford/picks/prospects package but I don't see it happening. Siakam doesn't seem to be available and Collins would require the involvement of a third team, I think, but who even knows what Atlanta wants.

[Who]

I’m sorry to always go back to this but I think tying up a max spot in Jaylen Brown is a losing formula. Sure he has developed nicely but he is not a #2 on a championship team.

If we can somehow create cap space to solve the issues you highlight (shooting) plus solve the other glaring issues - point guard, front court depth, bench and role player upgrades - then sure keeping Brown as our #3 is a winning formula.

The areas I have issue with Jaylen:

1. His ball handling skills.
2. He is so mechanical and robotic.
3. He seems to slow down our offense as a result of #1 and 2.

I’m not trying to hate but I’m tired of the notion that he is a bonafide #2 on a championship team. He isn’t.

1. Brown isn't on a max, in fact next season he'll probably won't be in the top 50 of best paid players.
2. While you can argue that Brown isn't good enough to be the second best player on a contender, I certainly have no issues with Brown being a #2 scoring option.
3. I doubt there's a better player than Brown on the market. Maybe Mitchell??? Would you offer Brown for either Lillard, Fox, Beal, Ingram, Simmons, Siakam or Sabonis?
4. Solving our shooting and bench issues should be the focus. Getting rid of Brown will only make our problems larger.

I feel better about Jaylen as a #2 guy next to a different or better #1.

Preferably someone who is a playmaker like a Doncic or a LeBron. I believe Jaylen would work great next to one of them. Or a Jokic. I also like Jaylen next to Embiid or a Giannis who draws a huge amount of defensive attention and the offense can revolve around.

The issue with Jaylen as a #2 here is more about Tatum & Jaylen as a combination rather than Jaylen as an individual. Are they too duplicative? Are their strengths and weaknesses too similar? Their lack of ball-handling and passing. Their inclination to play isolation basketball. Does that stop Jaylen from being able to being a #2 next to Tatum?

But like I said, I see that more of an issue about Tatum & Jaylen together rather than Jaylen as an individual in terms of "Is Jaylen good enough to be a #2?"

[PhoSita]

Short version:

The Celtics lack talent, shooting, and depth.

Add to this that the Celtics have one of the worst backcourt rotations in the league.

It is a roster that needs a lot of work.  I don't see any way to quickly fix it.

[RodyTur10]

Short version:

The Celtics lack talent, shooting, and depth.

Add to this that the Celtics have one of the worst backcourt rotations in the league.

It is a roster that needs a lot of work.  I don't see any way to quickly fix it.

I'm not sure everybody realizes how extreme this Celtics team is. Like last season when advanced stats showed that the Celtics bench players provided simultaneously the best defense and the worst offense in the league.

The Celtics could just be renamed "The Jays and defensive role players". And perhaps your first reaction would be to think like it has always been so. A team is compiled around their stars who take the lead, while role players need to fill in the gasps on defense and be servicable on the offensive end.

But the way this Celtics squad is operating is not ordinary. The amount of offensive load and freedom the Jays have in contrast to the limited opportunities other players get here is unprecedented in the NBA nowadays. It's un unhealthy situation. It's why gameplanning for our opponents is relatively easy and a big reason for our struggles during 4th quarters in close games.

This route is not a winning formula in my book.

[Surferdad]

All good points on this thread and I don't necessarily disagree with any of them.  However, the issues with the Jays would not be so noticeable if there was a legit third star alongside them.  This can be done actually rather easily, but trading Smart and/or Timelord is required.  Done, problem solved. 

However, I personally don't want to do that.  If I'm Brad Stevens, my goal is a starting lineup of:
Smart, Brown, X, Tatum, Timelord
Who is X?  As others have pointed out, it's not really a specific position to fill, like PG or PF since Smart, Brown, Tatum can all play several positions.  Just get that guy and figure it out from there.

[PhoSita]

All good points on this thread and I don't necessarily disagree with any of them.  However, the issues with the Jays would not be so noticeable if there was a legit third star alongside them.  This can be done actually rather easily, but trading Smart and/or Timelord is required.  Done, problem solved. 

However, I personally don't want to do that.  If I'm Brad Stevens, my goal is a starting lineup of:
Smart, Brown, X, Tatum, Timelord
Who is X?  As others have pointed out, it's not really a specific position to fill, like PG or PF since Smart, Brown, Tatum can all play several positions.  Just get that guy and figure it out from there.

What third star do you think can be acquired so easily?

[Surferdad]

All good points on this thread and I don't necessarily disagree with any of them.  However, the issues with the Jays would not be so noticeable if there was a legit third star alongside them.  This can be done actually rather easily, but trading Smart and/or Timelord is required.  Done, problem solved. 

However, I personally don't want to do that.  If I'm Brad Stevens, my goal is a starting lineup of:
Smart, Brown, X, Tatum, Timelord
Who is X?  As others have pointed out, it's not really a specific position to fill, like PG or PF since Smart, Brown, Tatum can all play several positions.  Just get that guy and figure it out from there.

What third star do you think can be acquired so easily?

Maybe 'easily' was hyperbole.  Still, I'll throw out a few names but of course there will be arguments as to whether these are 'stars'.  I would be happy with Myles Turner or Eric Gordon, for examples.