I’m ready for change

[pokeKingCurtis]

          Boston gets : T Halliburton
                              D Fox
                              H Barnes
                              M bagley

Sacramento gets:    J Brown
                             M Smart
                             J Richardson
                             D Schroeder


I really had a hard time with letting Brown go. I feel we need to go in another direction. We needed another shooter and playmaker to move this team in a more positive direction not only this year but into the future. Hope this is a trade that some would consider for Brown
 

I want to say two things

(1) I like this deal with Fox in it more than Hield because Fox has more upside to his game and could lead to a group that could compete for a Championship in 2-3 years if Fox can become a legit All-Star caliber PG.

G: Fox
G: Haliburton
F: Tatum
F: H.Barnes
C: Rob Williams

(2) I don't think you can get anywhere near this much talent out of Sacramento for Jaylen Brown. The 76ers are not just giving up Ben Simmons. They are giving up a 2nd near All-Star player in Tobias Harris and a 3rd good player who is a borderline starter (high end bench player, below average starter) with potential (if he develops a shot, he is an elite glue guy) in Thybulle. Boston would be giving up a lot less in this deal. One All-Star in Jaylen, a solid starter in Smart, two borderline starters with zero potential. There is far less talent in Boston's talent.

For how unforgiving you are of Marcus Smart's offensive shortcomings you are very quick to overlook Thybulle's, despite him being a vastly worse offensive player. He is also only 6 months younger than Jaylen.

It is only halfway through Thybulle's 3rd year.

Smart is in year 8.

Maybe someone more masochistic (and better at numbers) could compare Smart's third year to Thybulle's.

I suspect Smart's might be marginally better, though I don't know enough about Thybulle to be sure.

[testy]

I can’t believe I’m gonna say this. Smart will give them a veteran presence not only with his play on defense , they lack defensive stability. Simmons is gonna be a crap shoot at best, Philly would trade Simmons for Brown in a heartbeat. I do believe we have the better offer

[Who]

I can’t believe I’m gonna say this. Smart will give them a veteran presence not only with his play on defense , they lack defensive stability. Simmons is gonna be a crap shoot at best, Philly would trade Simmons for Brown in a heartbeat. I do believe we have the better offer

Jaylen is better than Simmons but the rest of the offer is nowhere near.

[Csfan1984]

Pass. Team doesn't need to break up the Jays. They need better supporting cast.

[gouki88]

          Boston gets : T Halliburton
                              D Fox
                              H Barnes
                              M bagley

Sacramento gets:    J Brown
                             M Smart
                             J Richardson
                             D Schroeder


I really had a hard time with letting Brown go. I feel we need to go in another direction. We needed another shooter and playmaker to move this team in a more positive direction not only this year but into the future. Hope this is a trade that some would consider for Brown
 

I want to say two things

(1) I like this deal with Fox in it more than Hield because Fox has more upside to his game and could lead to a group that could compete for a Championship in 2-3 years if Fox can become a legit All-Star caliber PG.

G: Fox
G: Haliburton
F: Tatum
F: H.Barnes
C: Rob Williams

(2) I don't think you can get anywhere near this much talent out of Sacramento for Jaylen Brown. The 76ers are not just giving up Ben Simmons. They are giving up a 2nd near All-Star player in Tobias Harris and a 3rd good player who is a borderline starter (high end bench player, below average starter) with potential (if he develops a shot, he is an elite glue guy) in Thybulle. Boston would be giving up a lot less in this deal. One All-Star in Jaylen, a solid starter in Smart, two borderline starters with zero potential. There is far less talent in Boston's talent.

For how unforgiving you are of Marcus Smart's offensive shortcomings you are very quick to overlook Thybulle's, despite him being a vastly worse offensive player. He is also only 6 months younger than Jaylen.

It is only halfway through Thybulle's 3rd year.

Smart is in year 8.

Yes, but Smart is currently significantly better on offence due to his ability to pass at all, and was a better offensive player in year 3 compared to Thybulle. At the same age Smart was a 36.4% shooter from deep (his best year).

For as good as Thybulle is on defence, it is almost entirely negated because he turns Philly's offence into 4v5

[slamtheking]

          Boston gets : T Halliburton
                              D Fox
                              H Barnes
                              M bagley

Sacramento gets:    J Brown
                             M Smart
                             J Richardson
                             D Schroeder


I really had a hard time with letting Brown go. I feel we need to go in another direction. We needed another shooter and playmaker to move this team in a more positive direction not only this year but into the future. Hope this is a trade that some would consider for Brown
 

so your goal is to become Sacramento?  of all the teams to emulate by taking their roster, they ain't it

[testy]

Say what you will. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. this would be a better and  more balanced team than our current roster. I hope the celts and sac do this trade. The problem with this team as currently constructed is they are not a player away, need s a 1,2 and a 5. With current roster they also do not have much for trade assets. This shake up provides assets and fills holes in current team.Also leaves some cap flexibility for future moves.

[tazzmaniac]

          Boston gets : T Halliburton
                              D Fox
                              H Barnes
                              M bagley

Sacramento gets:    J Brown
                             M Smart
                             J Richardson
                             D Schroeder


I really had a hard time with letting Brown go. I feel we need to go in another direction. We needed another shooter and playmaker to move this team in a more positive direction not only this year but into the future. Hope this is a trade that some would consider for Brown
 

I want to say two things

(1) I like this deal with Fox in it more than Hield because Fox has more upside to his game and could lead to a group that could compete for a Championship in 2-3 years if Fox can become a legit All-Star caliber PG.

G: Fox
G: Haliburton
F: Tatum
F: H.Barnes
C: Rob Williams

(2) I don't think you can get anywhere near this much talent out of Sacramento for Jaylen Brown. The 76ers are not just giving up Ben Simmons. They are giving up a 2nd near All-Star player in Tobias Harris and a 3rd good player who is a borderline starter (high end bench player, below average starter) with potential (if he develops a shot, he is an elite glue guy) in Thybulle. Boston would be giving up a lot less in this deal. One All-Star in Jaylen, a solid starter in Smart, two borderline starters with zero potential. There is far less talent in Boston's talent.

For how unforgiving you are of Marcus Smart's offensive shortcomings you are very quick to overlook Thybulle's, despite him being a vastly worse offensive player. He is also only 6 months younger than Jaylen.

It is only halfway through Thybulle's 3rd year.

Smart is in year 8.

Yes, but Smart is currently significantly better on offence due to his ability to pass at all, and was a better offensive player in year 3 compared to Thybulle. At the same age Smart was a 36.4% shooter from deep (his best year).

For as good as Thybulle is on defence, it is almost entirely negated because he turns Philly's offence into 4v5

Which is backed up by the stats.  Per NBA.com, Embiid has played with 7 other Sixers in at least 20+ games this season.   Of those pairing, Embiid-Thybulle is by far the worst with a -0.1 team plus/minus.  Next lowest is Embiid-Harris at +2.6.  Last season, Embiid-Thybulle was +0.9 by comparison the "so-called poor-fit" Embiid-Simmons pairing was +9.4. 

Besides youth, Thybulle's advantage over Smart is being a bench role player on a much better contract.  And his youth is only an advantage if you can project significant growth in his offensive game which does not appear to be the case. 

[todd_days_41]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

[Who]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

Definitely. Jaylen has proven far more than Haliburton and Haliburton is still a question mark as a future star whereas Jaylen is an established All-Star.

Haliburton still has big question marks next to him in terms of how good he can get. He doesn't have that great athleticism to blow by defenders. He doesn't have great aggressiveness / assertiveness. He only takes about 11 FGAs per game in 34mpg. Is he a future All-Star? Or will his ceiling be a sub All-Star.

I've been thinking about Hornacek lately when thinking of Haliburton. A very good starter and could be the 3rd best player on a top team. I think he made the ASG one year but generally wasn't there and wasn't all that close. A level below All-Star. Terrific shooter (one of the best in the league) with strong ball-handling and passing game for a SG. Capable of playing PG.

Jaylen is much more of a sure thing. He is definitely an All-Star caliber player. He is that already. The question with him is can he take that next step forward and become a top 10 type player.

So yeah you could Haliburton for Jaylen + something else. Sacramento would love to have Jaylen.

[Who]

By the way, how cool would that team be:

G: Fox
G: Hield
F: Jaylen
F: H.Barnes
C: R.Holmes

If they could upgrade on Holmes with a top 10-12 center, that could be a 50-55 win type team. Whether they become a legit title contender would depend on Fox & Jaylen's development. Very good regular season team.

They'd be giving up Haliburton and picks in this scenario.

Without that top center, I'd peg them more as a 45-47 win team. Sacramento's bad bench holds them back. Maybe even holds them back as far as a 42-45 win team. I can't quite remember but I don't think they have much talent at all coming off that bench. Probably one of the worst benches in the league. Sort out the bench and that could be a 47-50 win team next year. Their bench has them somewhere in that 42-50 win range depending on how good or bad it is.

[todd_days_41]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

Definitely. Jaylen has proven far more than Haliburton and Haliburton is still a question mark as a future star whereas Jaylen is an established All-Star.

Haliburton still has big question marks next to him in terms of how good he can get. He doesn't have that great athleticism to blow by defenders. He doesn't have great aggressiveness / assertiveness. He only takes about 11 FGAs per game in 34mpg. Is he a future All-Star? Or will his ceiling be a sub All-Star.

I've been thinking about Hornacek lately when thinking of Haliburton. A very good starter and could be the 3rd best player on a top team. I think he made the ASG one year but generally wasn't there and wasn't all that close. A level below All-Star. Terrific shooter (one of the best in the league) with strong ball-handling and passing game for a SG. Capable of playing PG.

Jaylen is much more of a sure thing. He is definitely an All-Star caliber player. He is that already. The question with him is can he take that next step forward and become a top 10 type player.

So yeah you could Haliburton for Jaylen + something else. Sacramento would love to have Jaylen.

Players aren’t traded on what they’ve proven, Who. Players are traded for their future, not their past.

The swap is not the slam dunk you’re making it out to be.

[Who]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

Definitely. Jaylen has proven far more than Haliburton and Haliburton is still a question mark as a future star whereas Jaylen is an established All-Star.

Haliburton still has big question marks next to him in terms of how good he can get. He doesn't have that great athleticism to blow by defenders. He doesn't have great aggressiveness / assertiveness. He only takes about 11 FGAs per game in 34mpg. Is he a future All-Star? Or will his ceiling be a sub All-Star.

I've been thinking about Hornacek lately when thinking of Haliburton. A very good starter and could be the 3rd best player on a top team. I think he made the ASG one year but generally wasn't there and wasn't all that close. A level below All-Star. Terrific shooter (one of the best in the league) with strong ball-handling and passing game for a SG. Capable of playing PG.

Jaylen is much more of a sure thing. He is definitely an All-Star caliber player. He is that already. The question with him is can he take that next step forward and become a top 10 type player.

So yeah you could Haliburton for Jaylen + something else. Sacramento would love to have Jaylen.

Players aren’t traded on what they’ve proven, Who. Players are traded for their future, not their past.

The swap is not the slam dunk you’re making it out to be.

Exactly, that is what I am trying to say. They are legit concerns about how high Hailburton's ceiling is. These are commonly held concerns across the league. This is not just me. These are concerns held by many.

His trade value is not super high. It is good trade value but it is not great. He is not considered a franchise player in the making. There is not even consensus he is an All-Star level player in the future. He is very good, but how good?

Jaylen has already proven himself at a level where many are uncertain Haliburton will ever reach. And Jaylen is still improving.

[todd_days_41]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

Definitely. Jaylen has proven far more than Haliburton and Haliburton is still a question mark as a future star whereas Jaylen is an established All-Star.

Haliburton still has big question marks next to him in terms of how good he can get. He doesn't have that great athleticism to blow by defenders. He doesn't have great aggressiveness / assertiveness. He only takes about 11 FGAs per game in 34mpg. Is he a future All-Star? Or will his ceiling be a sub All-Star.

I've been thinking about Hornacek lately when thinking of Haliburton. A very good starter and could be the 3rd best player on a top team. I think he made the ASG one year but generally wasn't there and wasn't all that close. A level below All-Star. Terrific shooter (one of the best in the league) with strong ball-handling and passing game for a SG. Capable of playing PG.

Jaylen is much more of a sure thing. He is definitely an All-Star caliber player. He is that already. The question with him is can he take that next step forward and become a top 10 type player.

So yeah you could Haliburton for Jaylen + something else. Sacramento would love to have Jaylen.

Players aren’t traded on what they’ve proven, Who. Players are traded for their future, not their past.

The swap is not the slam dunk you’re making it out to be.

Exactly, that is what I am trying to say. They are legit concerns about how high Hailburton's ceiling is. These are commonly held concerns across the league. This is not just me. These are concerns held by many.

His trade value is not super high. It is good trade value but it is not great. He is not considered a franchise player in the making. There is not even consensus he is an All-Star level player in the future. He is very good, but how good?

Jaylen has already proven himself at a level where many are uncertain Haliburton will ever reach. And Jaylen is still improving.

Can you give me one example of “league concerns” about Halibrton’s ceiling? I seriously doubt it.

Brown’s limitations, on the other hand, are more evident.

[Who]

if we're thinking big, what if we sold high on Tatum? package him with Smart and Schroder. take back Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, and a bunch of picks.

Sacto can sell themselves on Fox + Tatum. 

Celts have Hali - Buddy - Jaylen - Barnes - Timelord

plus multiple picks from Sacto

I do find these sort of ideas compelling to consider. However, I’d like to ask a related question:

Do folks feel the Kings would trade Haliburton for Brown, straight up?

Definitely. Jaylen has proven far more than Haliburton and Haliburton is still a question mark as a future star whereas Jaylen is an established All-Star.

Haliburton still has big question marks next to him in terms of how good he can get. He doesn't have that great athleticism to blow by defenders. He doesn't have great aggressiveness / assertiveness. He only takes about 11 FGAs per game in 34mpg. Is he a future All-Star? Or will his ceiling be a sub All-Star.

I've been thinking about Hornacek lately when thinking of Haliburton. A very good starter and could be the 3rd best player on a top team. I think he made the ASG one year but generally wasn't there and wasn't all that close. A level below All-Star. Terrific shooter (one of the best in the league) with strong ball-handling and passing game for a SG. Capable of playing PG.

Jaylen is much more of a sure thing. He is definitely an All-Star caliber player. He is that already. The question with him is can he take that next step forward and become a top 10 type player.

So yeah you could Haliburton for Jaylen + something else. Sacramento would love to have Jaylen.

Players aren’t traded on what they’ve proven, Who. Players are traded for their future, not their past.

The swap is not the slam dunk you’re making it out to be.

Exactly, that is what I am trying to say. They are legit concerns about how high Hailburton's ceiling is. These are commonly held concerns across the league. This is not just me. These are concerns held by many.

His trade value is not super high. It is good trade value but it is not great. He is not considered a franchise player in the making. There is not even consensus he is an All-Star level player in the future. He is very good, but how good?

Jaylen has already proven himself at a level where many are uncertain Haliburton will ever reach. And Jaylen is still improving.

Can you give me one example of “league concerns” about Halibrton’s ceiling? I seriously doubt it.

Brown’s limitations, on the other hand, are more evident.

No, I have nothing on hand. If you search around you'll find some things.

Some is linked to his physical / athletic characteristics. His lack of strength hurts him on switches and against bulky wings. His lack of footspeed hurts him against quick small guards. Limited upside defensively.

Offensively, there is concerns over his lack of elite burst to blow-by defenders. Some believe this is why his usage rates remain low. Others believe it his mental and lack of assertiveness and that Haliburton is happier / more comfortable in the sidekick type role. Others believe it is just opportunity and time and he'll figure it out. There is a wide range of beliefs on his offense.


If I remember correctly, Thinking Basketball (youtube channel) did a video on him at some point. They do great breakdowns of players.