Jared Weiss: Celts Exploring Horford Trades, Looking At Other Centers

[Celtics2021]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

[Somebody]

If Draymond Green injury proves serious (calf injury linked to back issues?? yikes), I could see the Warriors having interest in Al Horford as a decent replacement.   Although I guess if you factor in how much deep they are in the tax, we would have to take back a lot of salary, which may not make sense for us unless we got a decent asset out of it.

How would the Warriors match salaries?  They'd have to include Draymond, I assume.

I think acquiring Draymond is probably a nonstarter from the Warriors' perspective even if he's out for a significant period of time, but I have to admit that I would love to have him around this team as a mentor.

Don't think they're going to move any of their guys to be honest. Draymond's injury is huge, but I see them banking on him returning next year and letting Looney, Anderson and Iguodala shoulder a heavier defensive load for the time being.

[Who]

A center? huh?

What possible centers could they target? Who are high paid centers that may possibly be worth acquiring?

Myles Turner makes some sense. Anybody else?

[Somebody]

A center? huh?

What possible centers could they target? Who are high paid centers that may possibly be worth acquiring?

Myles Turner makes some sense. Anybody else?

We'll probably trade Horford, some of our youth and our lottery first this year for something like Barnes and Bagley.

[#1P4P]

The Horford-Kemba trade wasn’t just dumping the KW contract, it was reacquiring a player Brad enjoyed having on the team.

The portion of the salary cap dedicated to Horford isn’t great, but he’s having a positive impact on the team, opposite of what some here think, Horford’s a part of 2 of the top 6 lineups in Net Rating (for lineups that have played above 80 minutes). The Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Grant-Horford and Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Williams lineups are +17.7 (tied 4th with Utah’s best NETRTG lineup) and +17.5, respectively.

If there are any other cost cutting moves, it’ll be clearing Bruno and/or trading Schroder for an asset. I see us moving forward with this roster, unless a game changer is available.

[bogg]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

[Roy H.]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

Can you break that down for me?  How do we acquire a $27 million TPE?  My brain hurts from work.

[todd_days_41]

Of course the Cs are looking to trade Horford -- why wouldn't they be? And that guy Smith in PHX is a center, and someone said we're interested in him, so.....

Jared Weiss simply putting two and two together to prove to his bosses he's "plugged in", nothing more.

[Celtics2021]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

I'm well aware of this and discussed this in a different thread last week (to which Moranis said I was wrong, but I digress).  The point is that there are few if any teams who would have interest in Al Horford and have the requisite salaries, because competitive teams that might want Horford generally don't have $20+ million in salary getting paid to guys on the edge their rotation, and non-competitive teams won't be interested because he's still owed $14.5 million next year.  I tried to construct one with the Clippers, in a hypothetical where they want to clear some salary for next year, but it just doesn't make much sense for them (it was Kennard, Zubac, and Batum).  I'd also say that I think a TPE isn't an asset for Grant.  The Pistons are clearly willing to take on salaries at the price of more draft picks, based on all the dead salary they've paid out this year.  If we said we'll use the TPE instead of giving you an extra pick, they'd just say "no thanks, we'll take the pick."  Maybe Indiana thinks differently.

[dannyboy35]

   I’m so bad at the math, even on  a vacation day and two cups of coffee. I wish I could understand it more. Trade ideas are fun and I enjoy ‘em all. Sometimes I think people get a little nasty if they think a trade is ridiculous. I get it but I try to look at it as just throwing ideas out in a bar with friends. It’s just spitballing. But thanks to all the people here that explain things like the TPE. People here and other fan forums I think have a grasp of these things more than our local media does. The media doesn’t e em seem to really care to investigate this kind of thing. They’ll touch on it but maybe it’s over their heads too.
   What I’d love from local media is for them to give us trade ideas themselves. They rarely put themselves out like that. Maybe they don’t wanna upset a player they have to interview?

[bogg]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

Can you break that down for me?  How do we acquire a $27 million TPE?  My brain hurts from work.

So Al makes $27 million this year, and Boston has trade exceptions of around 17 million and 9.7 million from Fournier and Tristan. They're no great shakes, but let's say Boston sends Al to Dallas for Dwight Powell, Reggie Bullock, and one more small salary for matching purposes. Bullock fits into the Tristan TPE, Powell and whomever fit into the Fournier TPE, and you've legally sent out Al's 27 million for no "matching" salary and create a TPE for that amount.

[Celtics2021]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

Can you break that down for me?  How do we acquire a $27 million TPE?  My brain hurts from work.

Example (from a prior thread last week that you even responded to):

Clippers get: Horford, some sort of draft assets
Celtics get: Kennard (with Fournier TPE_, Zubac (with Thompson TPE), Batum (with Hernangomez TPE (it was the Walker TPE when I proposed it originally).  Since the Celtics have absorbed all the contracts with existing TPEs, they get a new, $27 million one for Horford.

[Roy H.]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

Can you break that down for me?  How do we acquire a $27 million TPE?  My brain hurts from work.

Example (from a prior thread last week that you even responded to):

Clippers get: Horford, some sort of draft assets
Celtics get: Kennard (with Fournier TPE_, Zubac (with Thompson TPE), Batum (with Hernangomez TPE (it was the Walker TPE when I proposed it originally).  Since the Celtics have absorbed all the contracts with existing TPEs, they get a new, $27 million one for Horford.

Okay.  I wasn't looking at bogg's statement regarding TPEs in conjunction with trading Horford.

[BruceBanner18]

How about using Horford and others in a trade by the deadline to acquire assets that could then be flipped for a third star in the offseason?  If Horford's base salary decreases to 14m next year, that would be his salary for matching purposes I think.

What assets are you going to get for a guy who makes $27 million and gives MLE-type production?  I'm not trying to insult Horford as he's a viable rotation player, but the only way you get assets for him is by taking on bad contracts with him, and those contracts will just get in the way of a future trade.  His salary for matching purposes right now is what he makes this season -- $27 million.  In the offseason it will decrease to the amount of his guarantee.

I know people are tired of hearing about TPEs, but if you make a deal for some backups who each fit into the existing TPEs you could create a $27 million TPE. That might be more of an asset when pursuing a Jerami Grant or Malcolm Brogdon than anything else anyone would be offering for Al.

Can you break that down for me?  How do we acquire a $27 million TPE?  My brain hurts from work.

It would be structured as a 2 simultaneous trades. For example, Boston could trade with Dallas for Bullock (9.5), Kleber (8.7) and Burke (3.1) to without sending back any players bc those three fit into existing TPEs. Since Dallas is sending out 21+ million in trade one they can take back Al's salary in a second trade. Since Boston isn't sending any players back in trade two a TPE for Horford's contact is created.

[Wretch]

I wonder if GS would be interested in Al now that Draymond is hurt, as insurance. Draymond's injury is a calf injury but it's apparently linked to an underlying back issue. Those can be tricky. 

Al (though a much lesser player) can fill a similar role as a strong defender and a low usage player on offense that's a good passer.