Rumour: Harden to the 76ers?

[Who]

Do players as skilled as Harden fall off the cliff?

Is it not normally guys who are more reliant on their athleticism?

Or have a more one dimensional game and then become less capable in that dimension -- say to create separation from defender, scoring volume goes down, non-scoring contributions are lousy so he is no longer a valuable player -- rather than a more well rounded player like Harden?

Harden has high skill level. He can shoot from outside. He can handle the ball at a high level. He is an excellent passer. He rebounds well. Not much of a defender.

Should Harden be a guy that we expect to age reasonably well due to his skill level & versatility?

The lack of conditioning is definitely a knock on him but he has good things going for him as well.

[celticsclay]

Do players as skilled as Harden fall off the cliff?

Is it not normally guys who are more reliant on their athleticism?

Or have a more one dimensional game and then become less capable in that dimension -- say to create separation from defender, scoring volume goes down, non-scoring contributions are lousy so he is no longer a valuable player -- rather than a more well rounded player like Harden?

Harden has high skill level. He can shoot from outside. He can handle the ball at a high level. He is an excellent passer. He rebounds well. Not much of a defender.

Should Harden be a guy that we expect to age reasonably well due to his skill level & versatility?

The lack of conditioning is definitely a knock on him but he has good things going for him as well.

While I agree he has some elements of his game that are not reliant on athleticism, shooting and passing, he also does have a pretty good burst getting to the hole which does open up his shooting. But we talking about him in the premise of going to Philly this off-season for a big free agent deal. This is debating how good he will be at 33,34,35. Given his conditioning history as well as a reputation as a big partier (this goes back to his time in okc) it is flat out silly to act like he is going to defy the history of the nba and be playing at an mvp level at 33,34 and 35. I certainly think he could have a strong close to this season, but banking anything behind that is getting pretty dicey.

[Moranis]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well. 

[celticsclay]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

[pokeKingCurtis]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

[hpantazo]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

Partying and taking care of your body are not the same things. Some guys party and sure it's not good for you, but they work their butts off to keep in shape in a very disciplined manner throughout their career like Jordan and Kobe and Karl Malone, Lebron, etc.

Also, Jordan and Pierce may have played until late 30's , but they were not very good after age 34-35.

[Moranis]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

Again he isn't going to win the MVP as he isn't or wouldn't be the best player on his team, but that isn't the same thing as MVP level play.  He has been playing at or better than his actual MVP season for the last few weeks.  Players don't tend to all of a sudden go from MVP level play to not over night.  Considering Harden has played at basically the same level for a decade, I just don't see a sudden cliff coming.  He obviously is on the downside of his career, but I absolutely expect a slow decline only over the next couple of seasons before he really starts to slide.

Harden is a top 5 SG in the history of the game, he isn't just going to disappear.  You aren't that good for that long by not caring, by not working on your game, etc. 

[celticsclay]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

So two different ideas here. For harden himself, I thought it was pretty common knowledge that he had the reputation as a partier. He literally got suspended by the rockets for repeatedly going to strip clubs backless during Covid and posting it on social media. This stuff goes back a long way dating back to Kendrick Perkins saying harden constantly drinking and going to strip clubs when okc was in the finals in Miami impacted his play and the series. There are a lot of pretty well reported stories and images out though there that users can look up. As for pierce, I believe pierce has credited that stabbing incident with changing his lifestyle. I know he partied some in retirement, but from everything I have read he did not have a reputation as a parties when we had our big 3 and won the chip. But even on top of the partying stuff we can all just look at harden and see has had constant conditioning issues the last few seasons. I would not be comfortable signing him to a big 3-4 year deal this off-season which was how this conversation started. I would be very anxious if the Celtics signed him this off-season to a lengthy deal.

[Moranis]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

Partying and taking care of your body are not the same things. Some guys party and sure it's not good for you, but they work their butts off to keep in shape in a very disciplined manner throughout their career like Jordan and Kobe and Karl Malone, Lebron, etc.

Also, Jordan and Pierce may have played until late 30's , but they were not very good after age 34-35.

Jordan won his last MVP at age 34 and then retired for the 2nd time right after that.  He took 3 years off before he played again.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jordan would have been a MVP level player at age 35 had he not retired. 

[hpantazo]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

Partying and taking care of your body are not the same things. Some guys party and sure it's not good for you, but they work their butts off to keep in shape in a very disciplined manner throughout their career like Jordan and Kobe and Karl Malone, Lebron, etc.

Also, Jordan and Pierce may have played until late 30's , but they were not very good after age 34-35.

Jordan won his last MVP at age 34 and then retired for the 2nd time right after that.  He took 3 years off before he played again.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jordan would have been a MVP level player at age 35 had he not retired.

Jordan during his last few years in the league was mediocre. I saw it myself in person, and the numbers don't lie. He toiled around on a poor Bullets team.

[Moranis]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

I mean how do you know who's partying and who isn't.

Plus a couple counterpoints

Jordan infamously partied super hard even before games

We also have Pierce who was stabbed at the nightclub and, post retirement hanging out with strippers (https://fadeawayworld.net/entertainment/paul-pierce-was-wildin-on-ig-live-with-hot-girls-dancing-around-him). Pierce retired at like 40.

Partying and taking care of your body are not the same things. Some guys party and sure it's not good for you, but they work their butts off to keep in shape in a very disciplined manner throughout their career like Jordan and Kobe and Karl Malone, Lebron, etc.

Also, Jordan and Pierce may have played until late 30's , but they were not very good after age 34-35.

Jordan won his last MVP at age 34 and then retired for the 2nd time right after that.  He took 3 years off before he played again.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jordan would have been a MVP level player at age 35 had he not retired.

Jordan during his last few years in the league was mediocre. I saw it myself in person, and the numbers don't lie. He toiled around on a poor Bullets team.

Yes when he was 38 and 39 and hadn't played in the league for 3 years before that.

[celticsclay]

No one said anything about him being in MVP form in 3 seasons.  Next year, he absolutely could be as he absolutely is right now over the last few weeks.  Given the Sixers situation with Embiid (i.e. he is frail), and the fact that they'd be trading a guy that refuses to play for them, that should be enough.  You have MVP level Harden playing with MVP level Embiid, even if just 1 year of that play, the Sixers are pretty heavy favorites to win the title next year if they can keep their high level role players like Curry and Green and rising young guys like Maxey, Thybulle, Milton.  Even if they lose Harris because of finances, they'd be a clear favorite to win the title.  And for Philly it absolutely should be title or bust. 

If Philly's options on a trade are Harden or McCollum or Brogdon level players, you take Harden every single time.  Sure your window is smaller, but it is also a lot bigger.  That should be the goal for the Sixers.  Win a title at all costs and in that Harden is BY FAR the best pseudo-realistic option to achieve that.  It isn't close.

Harden may very well be the most underrated all time great player in the sport's history.  He really doesn't get any respect for just how skilled he is and for his willingness to adapt and change.  When the rules changed, he adapted and put together one of the greatest 3 season runs offensively in the league's entire history.  When his team added another scorer, he went from leading the league in scoring, to being near the top for passing really elevating his passing in the process all while still be an excellent scorer.  He then comes to a team with 2 other premier scorers and adapts his game again to fit what they were doing.  He has been willing to do whatever his coaches and the team need him to do offensively.  He isn't a good defender, that is true, but there is basically nothing he can't do on offense and do well.

I would be very surprised if is in mvp consideration next season and absolutely flabbergasted if he was in it the season after
Next. You can agree or disagree the rest is just noise. Players that don’t take care of their body and party usually do have faster declines than the gym rat health nuts. This is basically common sense.

Again he isn't going to win the MVP as he isn't or wouldn't be the best player on his team, but that isn't the same thing as MVP level play.  He has been playing at or better than his actual MVP season for the last few weeks.  Players don't tend to all of a sudden go from MVP level play to not over night.  Considering Harden has played at basically the same level for a decade, I just don't see a sudden cliff coming.  He obviously is on the downside of his career, but I absolutely expect a slow decline only over the next couple of seasons before he really starts to slide.

Harden is a top 5 SG in the history of the game, he isn't just going to disappear.  You aren't that good for that long by not caring, by not working on your game, etc.

I really don’t want to get in these weird semantics debates with you where you say a guy is playing at an mvp level but not in contention for the mvp. I think that the 76ers could compete for a championship if things broke right including Embid and harden holding up (which is a higher risk than the average player). I also do think harden is going to have a rather steep decline because of all the partying and condition things I have mentioned. We’ve probably already exhausted hypo ethical situation more than enough already so can just whatever happens.

[celticsclay]

We could make a separate thread on this but am kind of surprised more people are not aware of the history of guys that got out of shape and partied getting out of the league rather abruptly. Jordan may have been the exception this and was a one of the most unique and exceptional athletes in the history of the world. However guys like Walker, kemp, iverson, vin baker. When these guys are 28-30 they can kind of get away with it and play themselves back into shape. As they get older that becomes harder and harder to do and also things like lack of sleep have a bigger impact. If you get chance to talk to local nba beatwriters or sometimes even guys that work high end casinos they tell you these stories. Even someone Jackie mac has shared a lot of stories like this over the year.

[Moranis]

We could make a separate thread on this but am kind of surprised more people are not aware of the history of guys that got out of shape and partied getting out of the league rather abruptly. Jordan may have been the exception this and was a one of the most unique and exceptional athletes in the history of the world. However guys like Walker, kemp, iverson, vin baker. When these guys are 28-30 they can kind of get away with it and play themselves back into shape. As they get older that becomes harder and harder to do and also things like lack of sleep have a bigger impact. If you get chance to talk to local nba beatwriters or sometimes even guys that work high end casinos they tell you these stories. Even someone Jackie mac has shared a lot of stories like this over the year.

Except none of those guys were playing at a MVP level at age 32 and they didn't just wake up one day and fall off a cliff (well Baker did from the injury in 99 to extreme drinking and alcoholism)

[pokeKingCurtis]

Sorry to digress even more and go on even more of a tangent with more random thoughts..and maybe a bit silly to say

This just really resonates with me, someone turning 30, who's been told all the time in my formative years that work and money are only things that matters, and I've been chasing that. And now I feel so empty and sad, and the people who told me that just look so unfulfilled and sad and don't even act like functional human beings...

As such, a part of me now kind of scoffs at the stories about people going 110%. Like for Kobe - would he have had a better career if he just got along with Shaq, by not being so hardcore all the time? Would he have been less injured if he dialed it back? More balanced between the ears? Who knows. Not to say he didn't do a lot of good stuff on and off the court - because by all accounts, again, he did.

And then I look at a guy like Boris Diaw who's been sipping cappuccinos and wearing flip flops to ace vert tests and not trying hard. Would he have thrived had he  gone in harder? Or is it in his DNA to be laid back. The Spurs had all their players do presentations on a current affairs topic - maybe Diaw just needed this kind of culture to thrive

The biggest counterpoint to this (aside from Kobe) might be LeBron..who's playing at an all star level at, what, 38? A career in the NBA and the lives of these physically gifted individuals are probably a much different animal from my silly little quarter-mid life crisis though lol

So rooting for Harden's success just to validate some of this. Guys like Boris Diaw and Pierce. I should probably turn elsewhere for life lessons though 

Everything in moderation maybe...and different strokes for different folks - I'll concede the odds are against Harden somewhat with how much he seems to party