Deli Guy Rumor/Speculation: Jaylen Brown for Jamal Murray swap with Denver

[Smartacus]

My brother knows a guy who knows a guy that claims to have some decent media connections from when he worked in radio. This guys usually has had a decent finger on the pulse of whats going on but he's been wrong before.

Most recently he said we were getting a first for Robert Williams on Draft Day last summer.

Well this guys has a new one and even if the rumor is false I think the idea is worth discussing.

Jaylen Brown for Jamal Murray strait up.

Denver could use an athletic creator around Jokic and with Porter's out for the year they have had a serious talent drain to injury. They are not typically a tanking team but are hovering around .500.

Boston punts on the 2021-2022 season. Give Murray time to heal up and shut Tatum down around game 60. Hopefully fall far enough for a top 10 pick and restart the Ime/Brad era with a fresh roster. Maybe even luck into one of the top 3 picks for a real difference maker.

Personally I had us taking Murray over Jaylen in that draft anyways. I'm really happy with Jaylen but if the Tatum pairing doesn't work then I do feel its time to move on. The main question would be how well will Murray recover from his ACL tear?

[Jvalin]

Hard pass on Jamal Murray.

• I'm very low on his BBIQ. It isn't an issue in Denver cause he's playing alongside one of the best passers of all time in Jokic.
• We'd be swapping a score-first, 2-way wing for a score-first ball handler who's a below average defender. Seems like a pointless move in my book. If we want that type of player, McCollum is a way cheaper option. Personally speaking, I'd pass on both of them unless we can acquire McCollum on the cheap.
• He's coming off a major injury. Not an ideal situation by any means. I expect him to find his old self going forward, but I doubt he'll be close to 100% this season.

[Neurotic Guy]

Hard pass on Jamal Murray.

• I'm very low on his BBIQ. It isn't an issue in Denver cause he's playing alongside one of the best passers of all time in Jokic.
• We'd be swapping a score-first, 2-way wing for a score-first ball handler who's a below average defender. Seems like a pointless move in my book. If we want that type of player, McCollum is a way cheaper option. Personally speaking, I'd pass on both of them unless we can acquire McCollum on the cheap.
• He's coming off a major injury. Not an ideal situation by any means. I expect him to find his old self going forward, but I doubt he'll be close to 100% this season.

An injured Murray for a healthy Brown seems lopsided.  Who/what could  Denver sweeten the pot with to make the trade viable in your opinion? 

[CelticsWhat35]

I would’ve passed on this even before the ACL injury.  I don’t see how Murray would fit any better with Tatum.

[Csfan1984]

I see nuggets going for a bigger deal like Smart and JB for Murray, Barton and two first round picks.

I don't see C's taking a chance on that.

[Smartacus]

Hard pass on Jamal Murray.

• I'm very low on his BBIQ. It isn't an issue in Denver cause he's playing alongside one of the best passers of all time in Jokic.
• We'd be swapping a score-first, 2-way wing for a score-first ball handler who's a below average defender. Seems like a pointless move in my book. If we want that type of player, McCollum is a way cheaper option. Personally speaking, I'd pass on both of them unless we can acquire McCollum on the cheap.
• He's coming off a major injury. Not an ideal situation by any means. I expect him to find his old self going forward, but I doubt he'll be close to 100% this season.

Nice response Jva. I disagree with all of your claims though they are sound.

1. Murray has a low BBIQ and is propped up by playing with Jokic.
Disagree, I think Murray has a high level scoring and passing game that is near ideal fit for what you want as a lead ballhandler. Jokic may be the best passing big of this generation but that doesn't necessarily make him easy to play with as a PG. I think it speaks to Murray's versatility that he's found success playing off ball to a high usage player.

Murray is also a nails end game shot creator which is one of Jaylen's greatest weaknesses.

2. Swapping shoot first Jaylen for shoot first Murray creates the same problem with pairing with Tatum.
Disagree, everyone love to talk about positionless basketball but at the end of the day your short guy matches up with my short guy and vice versa. Tatum and Murray operate in different areas of the court and your can surround them with different types of talent.

The issue with Jaylen is not the he takes too many shots its that many of those shots are the looks that Tatum wants. Murray would bring in a floater game that has been non existent on this team since Isaiah.

3. Murray will not be back to full health this year.
Yes in this scenario we shut Murray down for this year and go into next training camp with the revitalized roster. Murray might still need some time but can get his legs back under him as the season progresses.

Part of the attractiveness of this scenario is to take a step back to re tool the roster.

[csfansince60s]

TP to the OP for the obvious amount of time he put into the op and subsequent posts.

Given that, you lost me at the “punts” part, unless firing Uchoka is part of that, although one could argue that keeping him as tank commander is perfect if 5hats what our goal is.

This team, as Perk, Forsberg and many others have opined, have more than enough talent to make the playoffs. Obviously, the Ime experiment has failed. To keep him here is inculcating a culture of losing and hero ball that we’ll never be able to expunge. Plus another waste of a year of Tatums talent.

[LilRip]

I haven’t followed Jamal Murray all that closely outside of when he has big games (and he looks unstoppable in those highlights) but looking at it objectively, I guess I have a hard time imagining why pairing JT with another score-first player would fit differently vs Brown.

JT-Brown, JT-Murray, or even JT-Beal. They all seem like your turn/my turn pairings. We might end up with pretty much the same situation regardless.

A top 10 pick would help boost the team tho for sure but we can probably achieve that even without any trade.

[seancally]

TP to the OP for the obvious amount of time he put into the op and subsequent posts.

Given that, you lost me at the “punts” part, unless firing Uchoka is part of that, although one could argue that keeping him as tank commander is perfect if 5hats what our goal is.

This team, as Perk, Forsberg and many others have opined, have more than enough talent to make the playoffs. Obviously, the Ime experiment has failed. To keep him here is inculcating a culture of losing and hero ball that we’ll never be able to expunge. Plus another waste of a year of Tatums talent.

…why? Seriously why should we make the playoffs with this group? This is a playoff roster when coached by a top-5 coach. And as we saw last year, only barely. I disagree that we’re just stuffed to the gills with talent and can’t possibly be bad enough to miss the playoffs. Even if we win a few of the close ones we’re still at the bottom of the bracket. The worst outcome for this season IMO would be another play-in game and early exit.

The team isn’t good enough, the coach isn’t good enough, and we need to retool.

Not sure if I would pull the trigger on this proposed trade. But if it happened I would understand it and at least it would signal a direction. You cannot win in this league without elite PnR playmakers and ballhandlers. We don’t have one so our ceiling is low.

[Moranis]

Murray, when healthy, is arguably an equal value to Brown, but he isn't healthy and who knows when he'd play again. 

At one point I proposed something like Brown for Murray and MPJ.  Boston takes on Denver's damaged goods for a chance at real contention in a couple of seasons while Denver goes for it this year in a fairly wide open season.  To make the dollars work, someone else from Boston has to be included so given the trade, Schroder makes sense.  So Brown and Schroder for Murray and MPJ.  I'd do that trade.  It would basically be throwing in the towel this year for Boston, but given where the team currently is, that might not be a bad thing. 

So post trade

Boston would potentially have a very nice trio for years to come in Tatum, Murray, Porter and Denver really goes for a title this year with a starting 5 of Jokic, Brown, Gordon, Barton, Schroder and still has Brown next to Jokic long term. 

To do this, Boston would have to feel comfortable that Murray and Porter will be able to heal from their current injuries, so it would be a big risk, but it is the type of trade that I think makes good sense for both teams.

[Who]

Not a fan of a Jamal Murray for Jaylen Brown swap.

I am in general agreement with the idea that Murray is aided greatly by playing next to Jokic. Personally, I consider Murray a two guard masquerading as a lead guard and he is only able to get away with it because he plays with Jokic who is the best passing center of All-Time and effectively organizes and runs their halfcourt offense from the center position.

I also wonder how well Murray's scoring (efficiency) numbers hold up without Jokic around. Jokic creates so many added / easier  opportunities to score because of how much attention he demands from the defense especially in PnR / PnP actions where a large chunk of Murray's scoring comes from.

Jamal Murray is a fine player and I'd be happy to have him here but he is not worth giving up Jaylen Brown for.

[moiso]

Murray is pretty good but I consistently hear people overrating him.  Brown is much better even if they were equally healthy.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Murray can't stay on the floor and is insanely streaky while making the max.  He's a negative asset IMO

[bello_man09]

Murray can't stay on the floor and is insanely streaky while making the max.  He's a negative asset IMO

Will Rather keep brown. I 100 percent agree.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I 100% support JB for Murray if that is on the table, but we would need more due to Murray’s injury (and would want that more to be swaps where we get the more favorable of 2-3 future Denver/Boston 1st, so something like swaps in 2025-2027…see next paragraph for reasoning of wanting them in the relatively distant future). Clearly we would go full-on tank to maximize our odds of a top three pick this year, and then regroup when Murray is healthy.

If he returns to form, Murray would be a much better fit with JT. He also might increase our odds of recruiting Jokic come 2023 if it turns out Jokic ultimately ends up missing Murray as a teammate (let Denver find out what JB is all about and/or Jokic may have second thoughts of re-signing if JB decides he’s going into 2023-2024 without an extension…whether we JKJB or JTJB, would bet big bucks that he’s going to go to LA or MIA after this contract).