Ime has got to go!

[Goldstar88]

He has the team playing very good defense, but I’m still not loving the offense. Team is just outside of the top 10 in 3pt shot attempts(36.5), and the only team in the league that takes more 3’s(37.7) and shoots a worse percentage than Boston is OKC. C’s are 24th out of 30 teams for the worst 3pt percentage in the NBA.

When the C’s go up against playoff caliber teams, taking and missing so many 3’s will cost them games.

All of this. When the 3's don't fall, they have no plan B. This will catch up to them.

Well since they're 24th in 3PT% that means the 3's aren't typically falling. And they're still ranked 10th in offense and able to win more than they lose. Seems like something good is happening.

The team has been looking good lately and it’s been a lot of fun to watch. Only thing is, they haven’t really been tested during the win streak as only a few teams that they’ve beaten have records over .500 and those that they have beat, were missing major pieces while the C’s on the other hand have been healthy.

Destroying bad teams, which they have done plenty lately, is just as good a sign as beating good teams.  The Celts are absolutely trending up.

So beating Orlando by 20+ is the same as beating the Suns or Warriors? Sorry, I’m going to have to disagree with you there. The C’s are trending upward, but they have not faced a real test during this win streak.

Hawks and Nuggets? Hornets? Or what about when they beat the Bulls?

There always a reason to throw shade for Celtics fans.

I think Celtics are better and on the right road but I’m not convinced that some of what made them a .500 team through 50 games is no longer a factor.  Let’s play some teams that are solid and healthy and see how the Cs hold up. 

Not expecting a win v. Philly tomorrow but want to see evidence that C’s can play at their level for the better part of 48 minutes.  I hope Harden is able to play.

Harden is reportedly out so my understanding is the game doesn’t count if we win.

It counts as win, but I’m not going to ignore the fact that the other team is missing starting players. Just saying is that I’d like to see them beat out a team that isn’t handicapped by not having a major piece in their lineup. I don’t know why that’s being viewed as something negative.

But what if we win by 20? Don't matter?

Beating a bottom feeder  like Orlando or a Nets team that literally played with zero starters by 20+ doesn’t tell me much. They are not going to be facing rosters like that in the playoffs.

[droopdog7]

He has the team playing very good defense, but I’m still not loving the offense. Team is just outside of the top 10 in 3pt shot attempts(36.5), and the only team in the league that takes more 3’s(37.7) and shoots a worse percentage than Boston is OKC. C’s are 24th out of 30 teams for the worst 3pt percentage in the NBA.

When the C’s go up against playoff caliber teams, taking and missing so many 3’s will cost them games.

All of this. When the 3's don't fall, they have no plan B. This will catch up to them.

Well since they're 24th in 3PT% that means the 3's aren't typically falling. And they're still ranked 10th in offense and able to win more than they lose. Seems like something good is happening.

The team has been looking good lately and it’s been a lot of fun to watch. Only thing is, they haven’t really been tested during the win streak as only a few teams that they’ve beaten have records over .500 and those that they have beat, were missing major pieces while the C’s on the other hand have been healthy.

Destroying bad teams, which they have done plenty lately, is just as good a sign as beating good teams.  The Celts are absolutely trending up.

So beating Orlando by 20+ is the same as beating the Suns or Warriors? Sorry, I’m going to have to disagree with you there. The C’s are trending upward, but they have not faced a real test during this win streak.

Hawks and Nuggets? Hornets? Or what about when they beat the Bulls?

There always a reason to throw shade for Celtics fans.

I think Celtics are better and on the right road but I’m not convinced that some of what made them a .500 team through 50 games is no longer a factor.  Let’s play some teams that are solid and healthy and see how the Cs hold up. 

Not expecting a win v. Philly tomorrow but want to see evidence that C’s can play at their level for the better part of 48 minutes.  I hope Harden is able to play.

Harden is reportedly out so my understanding is the game doesn’t count if we win.

It counts as win, but I’m not going to ignore the fact that the other team is missing starting players. Just saying is that I’d like to see them beat out a team that isn’t handicapped by not having a major piece in their lineup. I don’t know why that’s being viewed as something negative.

But what if we win by 20? Don't matter?

Beating a bottom feeder  like Orlando or a Nets team that literally played with zero starters by 20+ doesn’t tell me much. They are not going to be facings rosters like that in the playoffs.

I don't have the data but I'm betting your view is objectively wrong.  Beating bad teams badly absolutely matters.

[Celtics2021]

Udoka’s ranking through his first 58 games as the head coach of the Celtics;

Ime has been better lately, but...How many of the coaches below him took over a roster with 2 all star wings and a team that has been in the playoffs 4 years in a row?

I know you think you're being smart with that question, but if you exclude "wing" from your definition, because it's not quite clear why having an All-Star wing is superior to having an All-Star power forward, the answer is 4 (Russell, KC Jones, Jimmy Rodgers, and Chris Ford).  If you remove the playoff requirement, you can add Bill Fitch, Jim O'Brien, Satch Sanders, and Red to that list.  If you keep the playoff requirement but slightly expand the All-Star requirement to include players who've been All-Stars within two seasons, you can also add Tommy and Doc (who each had one current all-star and one recent All-Star).  Full on half of the coaches in Celtics history have walked into similar or better situations as Udoka.

[Goldstar88]

Udoka’s ranking through his first 58 games as the head coach of the Celtics;

Ime has been better lately, but...How many of the coaches below him took over a roster with 2 all star wings and a team that has been in the playoffs 4 years in a row?

I know you think you're being smart with that question, but if you exclude "wing" from your definition, because it's not quite clear why having an All-Star wing is superior to having an All-Star power forward, the answer is 4 (Russell, KC Jones, Jimmy Rodgers, and Chris Ford).  If you remove the playoff requirement, you can add Bill Fitch, Jim O'Brien, Satch Sanders, and Red to that list.  If you keep the playoff requirement but slightly expand the All-Star requirement to include players who've been All-Stars within two seasons, you can also add Tommy and Doc (who each one current all-star and one recent All-Star).  Full on half of the coaches in Celtics history have walked into similar or better situations as Udoka.

I was genuinely curious if those other coaches were brought into a similar situations. The Wing players are considered by many to be the most important position on a team vs having an all star like a Kemba or IT.

[Vermont Green]

If you beat a bad team, it means what it means.  You can't go by the score of the game though, you have to base it on what you see on the court.  What we are seeing with the Celtics is a team that is playing better, executing better.  That is a credit to the coaching and the players.

Is "playing better" going to mean success in the playoffs?  Time will tell.  It probably means more success than playing just OK against bad teams.  Also remember that Miami, CLE and so on have played all these bad teams also and it is part of their records.

Let's just keep banking these wins, moving up in the standings, and get the core unit playing as well together as possible.  Now we also have to integrate White and Theis as well as get a couple of players used to a little different roles.

It is looking better and better for us to win a round in the playoffs.  We are moving up in the standings improving our draw and several teams starting to show some decline.  I hope we don't get MIL or PHI (with Harden) in the first round.  We may get CLE or CHI.  We can beat some of these teams.

[Celtics2021]

Udoka’s ranking through his first 58 games as the head coach of the Celtics;

Ime has been better lately, but...How many of the coaches below him took over a roster with 2 all star wings and a team that has been in the playoffs 4 years in a row?

I know you think you're being smart with that question, but if you exclude "wing" from your definition, because it's not quite clear why having an All-Star wing is superior to having an All-Star power forward, the answer is 4 (Russell, KC Jones, Jimmy Rodgers, and Chris Ford).  If you remove the playoff requirement, you can add Bill Fitch, Jim O'Brien, Satch Sanders, and Red to that list.  If you keep the playoff requirement but slightly expand the All-Star requirement to include players who've been All-Stars within two seasons, you can also add Tommy and Doc (who each one current all-star and one recent All-Star).  Full on half of the coaches in Celtics history have walked into similar or better situations as Udoka.

I was genuinely curious if those other coaches were brought into a similar situation. The Wing players are considered by many to be the most important position on a team. Bs having an all star like a Kemba or IT.

In the modern game they're the most important, but in prior decades PGs or bigs have been more important.  Most of the above had a wing and a big (think Bird/McHale or Havlicek/Russell).

[Goldstar88]

Udoka’s ranking through his first 58 games as the head coach of the Celtics;

Ime has been better lately, but...How many of the coaches below him took over a roster with 2 all star wings and a team that has been in the playoffs 4 years in a row?

I know you think you're being smart with that question, but if you exclude "wing" from your definition, because it's not quite clear why having an All-Star wing is superior to having an All-Star power forward, the answer is 4 (Russell, KC Jones, Jimmy Rodgers, and Chris Ford).  If you remove the playoff requirement, you can add Bill Fitch, Jim O'Brien, Satch Sanders, and Red to that list.  If you keep the playoff requirement but slightly expand the All-Star requirement to include players who've been All-Stars within two seasons, you can also add Tommy and Doc (who each one current all-star and one recent All-Star).  Full on half of the coaches in Celtics history have walked into similar or better situations as Udoka.

I was genuinely curious if those other coaches were brought into a similar situation. The Wing players are considered by many to be the most important position on a team. Bs having an all star like a Kemba or IT.

In the modern game they're the most important, but in prior decades PGs or bigs have been more important.  Most of the above had a wing and a big (think Bird/McHale or Havlicek/Russell).

That’s fair. In terms of modern comparisons, though. Look at the C’s roster this year compared to what Doc had his first year in Boston. Other than PP and Big Al (who was in his second year in the league averaging 8pts/5reb) he had very little to work with. It’s night and day when you look at the talent the C’s have right now vs then.

2005 Celtics

Tony Allen
Marcus Banks
Mark Blount
Ricky Davis
Dan Dickau
Ryan Gomes
Gerald Green
Orien Greene
Al Jefferson
Dwayne Jones
Raef LaFrentz
Michael Olowokandi
Kendrick Perkins
Paul Pierce
Justin Reed
Brian Scalabrine
Wally Szczerbiak
Delonte West

[Vermont Green]

In the modern game they're the most important, but in prior decades PGs or bigs have been more important.  Most of the above had a wing and a big (think Bird/McHale or Havlicek/Russell).

I agree and disagree, the last 15 champs, all but GSW (3) and Toronto (1) had an impactful big on the team.  This includes Duncan (2), Garnett, Pao Gasol (2), Dirk, Bosh (2), Love, Davis, Giannis.  I don't think the impact of having a really good big and a really good wing has ever really changed.  The GSW teams had Durant and/or Green, making up for the lack of traditional size.  The Toronto team had Marc Gasol, Siakam, and Ibaka, not an individual top big but collectively, some good, skilled size.

Winning a championship without a top big is still more the exception than the rule.  There was a stretch where the way they called fouls, it favored smaller players, but now that is changing.  It is tilting back more to favor size.  GSW are still winning with their main big being Green, who is not all that big and not what I would consider one of their best players, but every other top team has skilled size.

[Kiorrik]

Fact: team is improving over time.

We're fighting through some adversity.

And y'know what? Still more adversity will come. We WILL lose more games this season.

I like what Ime's doing. He's got us to right our ship on defense. He's gotten us to pass more.

Last 15 games we're:
 - 9th in assists (whilst 21st in pace)
 - 8th in potential assists
 - 6th in adjusted assists
 - 4th in passes made

These are great numbers for a team known as ISO-heavy.

We're getting there.

Turns out, at the start of the season, most people on here were right; you gotta give a coach time.

Think about it. The hints were there as well. Earlier we found out his ATO plays stats were amongst the top in the league. That's something that directly reflects coaching. Then the defence started clicking. And now we're improving on passing.

Obviously the level of the competition matters, but things like passing and defence is also hugely reliant on just putting in the effort. And that's what we're starting to do far more consistently.

It's been a bit of a ride, but we look heaps better than we did half a season ago.

[droopdog7]

It’s too bad that neither this game, or margin of victory count

[Goldstar88]

It’s too bad that neither this game, or margin of victory count

The game doesn’t count? Who said that.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I want to intermittently bump this thread and the "Ime for COY" threads so they're always right next to each other on the sidebar

[ozgod]

It’s too bad that neither this game, or margin of victory count

The game doesn’t count? Who said that.

Philly lost Curry, starting player, and Drummond so the margin of victory doesn't count apparently 

[mobilija]

It’s too bad that neither this game, or margin of victory count

The game doesn’t count? Who said that.

Philly lost Curry, starting player, and Drummond so the margin of victory doesn't count apparently 

That's ok, we can spot Philly those players season avg in points....

We still win!

[ausbacker]

Fast approaching my mea culpa moment with Stevens, Udoka and the Celtics. If this is the desired version of the Celtics then I'm pleased beyond recognition to be proven wrong.