Poll: Which conference is deeper

[Moranis]

I believe the 8/9/10 teams in the East would wipe the floor with the 8/9/10 teams in the West. That, to me, equals more depth and also takes into account teams like PHX (and MEM to an extent) being so much better than other teams.

Again, this is my opinion, and it is backed up by records, but that is how I would answer the question.

If you want to talk about full strength, then sure, Kawhi would probably help LAC and Murray/Porter would probably help DEN, but I thought we were just talking about this season. And it's not like the East has been totally injury free.

The Clippers with George probably beat the Hawks, but yeah Charlotte and Brooklyn would more than likely beat New Orleans and San Antonio (especially Brooklyn).  The Lakers and Knicks split the season series (though the relatively healthy Lakers right now would most likely easily beat the Knicks) and the Kings swept the Wizards if you go to 11 and 12. 

[Vermont Green]

I have been hesitating to wade into this debate as the lack of a consensus definition of "deeper" is the reason no one can agree but how about his.  I am going to line up the teams so that #1 in the West plays #1 in the East and so on.  Then imagine which conference would win the most games or which conference would have to most teams favored from a betting standpoint.  Or think of it from a tournament like the Ryder cup or something.  Which conference would win that?

MIA..........PHO
BOS..........MEM
MIL..........GSW
PHI..........DAL
CHI..........DEN
TOR..........UTA
CLE..........MIN
ATL..........LAC
CHA..........NOP
BKN..........SAN
NYK..........LAL
WAS..........SAC
IND..........POR
DET..........OKC
ORL..........HOU

I think you only way you can consider this is based on the current rosters.  If you start saying well if LAC had Leonard or GSW had Curry, things would be different.

I would say that BOS, MIL, PHI, CHI, TOR, ATL, CHA, BKN, IND, DET, ORL would all be favored.  PHO, MIN, LAL, SAC would be favored.  That is 11-4 East.  Some of the 11 may be more of a pick-em but based on this, I deem the East deeper right now.  It may have been different at the start of the season, it may be different in a couple of weeks based on injury changes, but right now, I give it to the East.

[Celtics2021]

Of course I do.  If you tiered the teams by realistic title chances, the West still has more of the better teams because the West has more of the better players, and better players lead far more often to playoff success.

So the question is: is this still true as we wrap up the season?

I actually agree with something that Moranis posted earlier in the thread: that parity doesn’t necessarily indicate depth. But I’m curious, does the West still have better teams and better players this season, as we wrap up?

8 of the top 13 teams on 538 are in the West (both in current and full strength rating for the regular season).  Looking at their full strength ratings for the playoffs it is 7 of 12 or 9 of 15. 

Most projections have 8 or 9 players from the West on the All NBA teams (Jokic, Curry, Doncic, Towns, Booker, Paul, Morant, James and sometimes you see Gobert or Mitchell depending on how they do the positions)

This is simply wrong.

Top 13 in current ranking:

1696   BOS   
1681   PHX   
1642   MEM   
1639   PHI   
1616   UTA   
1605   MIN   
1603   MIL   
1589   DAL   
1585   TOR   
1581   DEN   
1580   MIA   
1578   ATL   
1562   BKN   

That's 7 East teams, 6 West teams.

The Warriors were listed ahead of the Nets when I looked at it and I didn't look past them and I should have as they have the same current rating (so they both should be included), though the Warriors have the higher full strength rating (1617 to 1604).

Even so, it doesn't get you to 8 West and 5 East.  You're still straight up wrong.

Yes it does if you took out brooklyn and put in golden state, that is 8 west and 5 east teams.

No, it doesn’t.  It’s 7-6 East as I copied it above.  You drop Brooklyn (even though they’re ahead by decimal points that you can’t see) and move in Golden State, that turns it to 6-7.  You can’t get it to 8-5 based on current ranking.  So you are, yet again, wrong and refusing to conceive that could be possible.

[Kernewek]

I have been hesitating to wade into this debate as the lack of a consensus definition of "deeper" is the reason no one can agree but how about his.  I am going to line up the teams so that #1 in the West plays #1 in the East and so on.  Then imagine which conference would win the most games or which conference would have to most teams favored from a betting standpoint.  Or think of it from a tournament like the Ryder cup or something.  Which conference would win that?

MIA..........PHO
BOS..........MEM
MIL..........GSW
PHI..........DAL
CHI..........DEN
TOR..........UTA
CLE..........MIN
ATL..........LAC
CHA..........NOP
BKN..........SAN
NYK..........LAL
WAS..........SAC
IND..........POR
DET..........OKC
ORL..........HOU

I think you only way you can consider this is based on the current rosters.  If you start saying well if LAC had Leonard or GSW had Curry, things would be different.

I would say that BOS, MIL, PHI, CHI, TOR, ATL, CHA, BKN, IND, DET, ORL would all be favored.  PHO, MIN, LAL, SAC would be favored.  That is 11-4 East.  Some of the 11 may be more of a pick-em but based on this, I deem the East deeper right now.  It may have been different at the start of the season, it may be different in a couple of weeks based on injury changes, but right now, I give it to the East.

I think this is a good way of getting close to it. For me I think of 'depth' as 'how many teams in the conference could reasonably win an NBA title.' It's hardly immune to bias but if you think back about 10-12 years ago to the top teams being the Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, OKC, Dallas in the West vs the Bulls, Heat, Celtics, and... Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic?

Or the 2012 season featuring an Eastern Conference headed up by the Heat, a 54 win Knicks squad... and some tumbleweeds, basically. But there was a ton of parity below that - the teams just weren't that great.

100% aware this is a very 'vibes not stats' post (which is due to time constraints, sorry), but maybe this helps?

[celticsclay]

This thread is unbelievable.  The 9th and 10th place Pelicans and Spurs are 21-39 against the East and 46-49 against the West.  There is a huge difference of quality between those teams and the Eastern conference teams in the same positions.

Some people are constitutionally incapable of ever admitting of being wrong.

Tp man. This is one of the crazier displays I can remember. Tp to Gouki too. It’s just gotten flat out dishonest.

[celticsclay]

Of course I do.  If you tiered the teams by realistic title chances, the West still has more of the better teams because the West has more of the better players, and better players lead far more often to playoff success.

So the question is: is this still true as we wrap up the season?

I actually agree with something that Moranis posted earlier in the thread: that parity doesn’t necessarily indicate depth. But I’m curious, does the West still have better teams and better players this season, as we wrap up?

Well, if you go by team futures, FWIW.  (+2000 & lower)

PHX +250
MIL +550
BKN +550
GSW +800
BOS +900
PHI +1000
MIA +1200
MEM +1800

And two of the top 3 of the KIA MVP ladder are in the east.

You are not even consistent in your arguments at this point. You are just flailing. In one post you say memphis is so much better than any team in  the east then show then having worse title odds than 5 teams in the east. Lol.

Edit sorry d, was reading too fast and made a mistake.

[Kernewek]

Of course I do.  If you tiered the teams by realistic title chances, the West still has more of the better teams because the West has more of the better players, and better players lead far more often to playoff success.

So the question is: is this still true as we wrap up the season?

I actually agree with something that Moranis posted earlier in the thread: that parity doesn’t necessarily indicate depth. But I’m curious, does the West still have better teams and better players this season, as we wrap up?

Well, if you go by team futures, FWIW.  (+2000 & lower)

PHX +250
MIL +550
BKN +550
GSW +800
BOS +900
PHI +1000
MIA +1200
MEM +1800

And two of the top 3 of the KIA MVP ladder are in the east.

You are not even consistent in your arguments at this point. You are just flailing. In one post you say memphis is so much better than any team in the east then show then having worse title odds than 5 teams in the east. Lol. As others have asked would it kill you to admit you were wrong on the depth of the east?

That's not Moranis posting?

[celticsclay]

Of course I do.  If you tiered the teams by realistic title chances, the West still has more of the better teams because the West has more of the better players, and better players lead far more often to playoff success.

So the question is: is this still true as we wrap up the season?

I actually agree with something that Moranis posted earlier in the thread: that parity doesn’t necessarily indicate depth. But I’m curious, does the West still have better teams and better players this season, as we wrap up?

Well, if you go by team futures, FWIW.  (+2000 & lower)

PHX +250
MIL +550
BKN +550
GSW +800
BOS +900
PHI +1000
MIA +1200
MEM +1800

And two of the top 3 of the KIA MVP ladder are in the east.

You are not even consistent in your arguments at this point. You are just flailing. In one post you say memphis is so much better than any team in the east then show then having worse title odds than 5 teams in the east. Lol. As others have asked would it kill you to admit you were wrong on the depth of the east?

That's not Moranis posting?

My mistake. And it doesn’t kill me to admit when I make a mistake or am wrong. Tp for catching it and calling me out.

[Kernewek]

No worries. The banter between you two is incredible, so I don't want it to go away

[celticsclay]

No worries. The banter between you two is incredible, so I don't want it to go away

I enjoyed the debate until this point. But saying a conference where three teams are going to make the playin under .500 (and two like ten games under) is deeper than a conference with ten above .500 teams and a championship contender in 8th became so ridiculous it is not as enjoyable.

[sgrogan]

Of course I do.  If you tiered the teams by realistic title chances, the West still has more of the better teams because the West has more of the better players, and better players lead far more often to playoff success.

So the question is: is this still true as we wrap up the season?

I actually agree with something that Moranis posted earlier in the thread: that parity doesn’t necessarily indicate depth. But I’m curious, does the West still have better teams and better players this season, as we wrap up?

8 of the top 13 teams on 538 are in the West (both in current and full strength rating for the regular season).  Looking at their full strength ratings for the playoffs it is 7 of 12 or 9 of 15. 

Most projections have 8 or 9 players from the West on the All NBA teams (Jokic, Curry, Doncic, Towns, Booker, Paul, Morant, James and sometimes you see Gobert or Mitchell depending on how they do the positions)

OK, let's use 538 then, and chances of winning the finals. That seems a good metric to measure "betterness"
The #1 team is from the east, our own Celtics at 31% (I don't see it, but OK)
The east has 3 of the top 4, 4 of the top 6, and 4 of the top 10.
With the top 10, the east has 55% at winning the finals, to the west's 41%.

I agree 538 isn't the best metric, but you used it to support your argument...

BKN is the 11th team by this analysis vs LAC as the 12th.

[Kernewek]

Link for 538 just in case anyone doesn't want to wade:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-predictions/

[nickagneta]

The defense of the West's depth is taking on Larbrd33 proportions of doggedness in the face of a lost argument.

East has 10 good teams. West has 7. East is deeper. It really is that simple.

[Moranis]

The defense of the West's depth is taking on Larbrd33 proportions of doggedness in the face of a lost argument.

East has 10 good teams. West has 7. East is deeper. It really is that simple.

The Pelicans are a .500 team since acquiring McCollum.  The Clippers are a well above .500 team with Paul George, who is now back and playing (they also are barely under .500 on the season).  Even the Spurs since trading White are 3 games over .500.  The Nets are under .500 since trading Harden (and were 7 games over .500 when Harden last played for them - so they've gone 11-16 since Harden last played for them).   The Hawks since trading Reddish have gone 9 games over .500 (so really good).  The Cavs have been a disaster the last month or so going just 7-12 (injuries have killed them but they aren't getting those injured players back either).   It isn't quite as easy as you are making it out to be.

And that still doesn't account for just how much better Phoenix has been (and Memphis to a lesser extent) nor that the top 7 all have a better record than their counterpart in the east.  That is a lot of victories to disperse to the other teams.  There is after all a reason the West has won more games in the head to head with the East i.e. they are better.

[sgrogan]

The defense of the West's depth is taking on Larbrd33 proportions of doggedness in the face of a lost argument.

East has 10 good teams. West has 7. East is deeper. It really is that simple.

The Pelicans are a .500 team since acquiring McCollum.  The Clippers are a well above .500 team with Paul George, who is now back and playing (they also are barely under .500 on the season).  Even the Spurs since trading White are 3 games over .500.  The Nets are under .500 since trading Harden (and were 7 games over .500 when Harden last played for them - so they've gone 11-16 since Harden last played for them).   The Hawks since trading Reddish have gone 9 games over .500 (so really good).  The Cavs have been a disaster the last month or so going just 7-12 (injuries have killed them but they aren't getting those injured players back either).   It isn't quite as easy as you are making it out to be.

And that still doesn't account for just how much better Phoenix has been (and Memphis to a lesser extent) nor that the top 7 all have a better record than their counterpart in the east.  That is a lot of victories to disperse to the other teams.  There is after all a reason the West has won more games in the head to head with the East i.e. they are better.

According to statmuse https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/east-vs-west-nba-record-2022
The East is at a 220-223 disadvantage head to head.
If we remove PHO because they are better than everyone else the, East has a 215-198 advantage.
And if you additionally remove MEM it's 206-178.
9 of the 10 top eastern teams have a winning record against the west. plus the Knicks @ 15-15, BKN is the outlier.
7 of the 10 top western teams have a winning record against the east. plus POR at 16-14 and LAL at 15-15