MLB owners vote for lockout

[wdleehi]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA. 

[slamtheking]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA.

banning shifts is pandering to bad hitters and the people who are casual fans.  batters don't like the shifts?  learn to hit to the opposite field.  game has degraded so much over the last 30 years that this is even a thing.

[Celtics2021]

Baseball has gotten so slow that I haven’t watched it in years, so I can’t opine on what the rule changes should be.  But there need to be some.  That said, I don’t think adding a DH to the NL is going to bring me back as a viewer.  I’ll go to a couple of games but probably have to leave by the 5th inning because 2.5 hours at a ballpark is about all my kid can handle.

[jambr380]

Baseball has gotten so slow that I haven’t watched it in years, so I can’t opine on what the rule changes should be.  But there need to be some.  That said, I don’t think adding a DH to the NL is going to bring me back as a viewer.  I’ll go to a couple of games but probably have to leave by the 5th inning because 2.5 hours at a ballpark is about all my kid can handle.

Yeah, I like to visit different ballparks, as well as catch the Sox when they're in town, but I certainly care a lot less than I did 10+ years ago. I would love to see a Mark Buehrle type rule go into effect. The time in between pitches is absolutely painful and the number one reason I can't sit through a whole game.

[wdleehi]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA.

banning shifts is pandering to bad hitters and the people who are casual fans.  batters don't like the shifts?  learn to hit to the opposite field.  game has degraded so much over the last 30 years that this is even a thing.

No.  It allows hitter to not have to sacrifice the power and still be able to get base hits.   It creates more action on the bases.   


It makes for a better game to watch.   

[BitterJim]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA.

Wouldn't that push hitters even more toward 1-dimensional power hitters, though? I'd much rather see the game move back toward base hits and putting things together than a bunch of strikeouts with the occasional homer.

The enforcement of such a rule would probably be painful, too. The simplest would probably be basing it on the number of players on each side of the field (based on a line from home through the mound/second) when the pitch goes through, but what's the incentive not to, calling a balk? A ball? Anything more and it puts too much power in the ump's hands, but anything less and you'd probably just see teams ignoring it sometimes. And would a player crossing that line while the pitch is on the way be allowed, and if so does that sort of defeat the purpose? You could give each fielder a box they have to stay in but I think we can agree that would be a step too far (since it could limit situational shift, like moving closer to second in a double play situation or in to the infield if you expect a bunt).

Baseball has gotten so slow that I haven’t watched it in years, so I can’t opine on what the rule changes should be.  But there need to be some.  That said, I don’t think adding a DH to the NL is going to bring me back as a viewer.  I’ll go to a couple of games but probably have to leave by the 5th inning because 2.5 hours at a ballpark is about all my kid can handle.

They really need to implement a pitch clock. That alone would have more of an effect on watchability than anything else.

Throw in something preventing a new pitcher from coming into the game and getting 20 minutes to warmup, too. Especially in an ALCS game.

[wdleehi]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA.

Wouldn't that push hitters even more toward 1-dimensional power hitters, though? I'd much rather see the game move back toward base hits and putting things together than a bunch of strikeouts with the occasional homer.

The enforcement of such a rule would probably be painful, too. The simplest would probably be basing it on the number of players on each side of the field (based on a line from home through the mound/second) when the pitch goes through, but what's the incentive not to, calling a balk? A ball? Anything more and it puts too much power in the ump's hands, but anything less and you'd probably just see teams ignoring it sometimes. And would a player crossing that line while the pitch is on the way be allowed, and if so does that sort of defeat the purpose? You could give each fielder a box they have to stay in but I think we can agree that would be a step too far (since it could limit situational shift, like moving closer to second in a double play situation or in to the infield if you expect a bunt).

Baseball has gotten so slow that I haven’t watched it in years, so I can’t opine on what the rule changes should be.  But there need to be some.  That said, I don’t think adding a DH to the NL is going to bring me back as a viewer.  I’ll go to a couple of games but probably have to leave by the 5th inning because 2.5 hours at a ballpark is about all my kid can handle.

They really need to implement a pitch clock. That alone would have more of an effect on watchability than anything else.

Throw in something preventing a new pitcher from coming into the game and getting 20 minutes to warmup, too. Especially in an ALCS game.

No.   Some of those shift hard ground outs would now find space to become singles or doubles.   

[BitterJim]

Haven't had to pay attention to this CBA so I haven't -- anyone have a good rundown on what changed? I'm reading bits and pieces that it's mostly an ownership-favoured deal (i.e. more or less more or the same).

This ESPN article has a decent breakdown.  Obviously the news just broke so I'm sure more information will come out.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33470321/sources-mlb-union-reach-tentative-agreement-new-cba-salvage-162-game-season

From a fan perspective the things of note are 12 teams making the playoffs and the NL finally adopting the DH.  Plus they are allowing advertising on the jerseys and helmets, which may look weird for awhile.

The Universal DH will take some getting used to.  More scoring, less strategy.

If they end up implementing a rule to ban shifts (as mentioned in the article), that would have a similar effect too.

I don't mind the DH rule, but I can't support banning shifts. You should be rewarding teams that are being strategic, not punish them. But then again, they're playing for "a piece of metal" (no, I'm still not over that)

I am all for the banning of the shift.  I want to see certain power hitters being able to hit more then just dingers and shift outs.   If it leads to more baserunners, the better.

Think of it like the illegal defense in the NBA.   It was created to make more open lanes to drive in the NBA.

Wouldn't that push hitters even more toward 1-dimensional power hitters, though? I'd much rather see the game move back toward base hits and putting things together than a bunch of strikeouts with the occasional homer.

The enforcement of such a rule would probably be painful, too. The simplest would probably be basing it on the number of players on each side of the field (based on a line from home through the mound/second) when the pitch goes through, but what's the incentive not to, calling a balk? A ball? Anything more and it puts too much power in the ump's hands, but anything less and you'd probably just see teams ignoring it sometimes. And would a player crossing that line while the pitch is on the way be allowed, and if so does that sort of defeat the purpose? You could give each fielder a box they have to stay in but I think we can agree that would be a step too far (since it could limit situational shift, like moving closer to second in a double play situation or in to the infield if you expect a bunt).

Baseball has gotten so slow that I haven’t watched it in years, so I can’t opine on what the rule changes should be.  But there need to be some.  That said, I don’t think adding a DH to the NL is going to bring me back as a viewer.  I’ll go to a couple of games but probably have to leave by the 5th inning because 2.5 hours at a ballpark is about all my kid can handle.

They really need to implement a pitch clock. That alone would have more of an effect on watchability than anything else.

Throw in something preventing a new pitcher from coming into the game and getting 20 minutes to warmup, too. Especially in an ALCS game.

No.   Some of those shift hard ground outs would now find space to become singles or doubles.

And that would help players who mostly hit to one part of the field more than ones who spread it around. I don't see how that wouldn't just push even harder toward that kind of one-dimensional player.

[Vermont Green]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

[Roy H.]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

[Celtics2021]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

[Donoghus]

Aesthetically, the shift was an abomination.  I'm fine getting rid of it.

[Moranis]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

[Roy H.]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe. 

[slamtheking]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

exactly.  also, any hitter that can't beat that kind of shift shouldn't be collecting a ridiculously-high paycheck to play a child's game. 

I don't want to hear the whining about "oh no, how can they hit Justin Verlander?!"  oh the horrors.  today's pitchers are not on the same level as the ones playing 20-30 years ago and yet the hitters facing a shift were so much less back then.  the game is such an inferior product these days compared to then.