Kemba Walker out of Knicks Rotation

[pokeKingCurtis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

[Celtics2021]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

Kemba was coming off an All-NBA season and had missed a total three games over the prior four years.  Sure, there was concern about how he’d look in year 4 of the deal, but it was pretty surprising he was irreparably damaged a half season in.

[ozgod]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

Chemistry is always a risk until they actually play together, but on paper nobody would have argued with it, that was a monster team with so much depth, we had two bigs in Al and Baynes, lots of wings with JB, JT and Mook, and ball handlers in Rozier and Smartacus. JT was more of a catch and shoot player while JB was more a rim attacker who had no outside shot, neither were projecting to be high usage players that year but they were solid wing defenders...I think if Cryrie had been the alpha and Gordon the clear beta where neither had been injured, and everyone had their role behind them the team would have had a clearer hierarchy. The problem with that team was there was no hierarchy, when GH and then Cryrie got injured the kids made a deep playoff run and in a way that was probably the worst thing for our team because it disrupted the hierarchy the following year. Gordon was coming back from a year off so he couldn't assert himself as a leader and Cryrie didn't know how when the Jays had gone to the ECF and nearly beat LeBum in 7. Maybe Cryrie would have been a disaster anyway, who knows. But it set such high expectations for the team and the Jays since then that they have never been able to live up to.

[radiohead]

I get not starting him, but it seems kind-of odd to make a declaration to the world that he is being removed from the rotation entirely. Even if he sits for a few games, there will be injuries and other guys might have off-nights. To go from 'top 5' on a team to outside of the top 10 overnight seems like a drastic move. At the very least, he could be a very good microwave off the bench...I wish we had a Kemba-type player off of our bench.

I don’t get this as well. Sounds a bit harsh actually.

[Neurotic Guy]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

I qualified the term in my post. I defined a mistake as when a big expenditure doesn’t work out.  It took 5 minutes on the court for Hayward not to work out. When healthy, he left. Not intended as a blame to Danny - it was a great signing at the time. 

[Kiorrik]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

I qualified the term in my post. I defined a mistake as when a big expenditure doesn’t work out.  It took 5 minutes on the court for Hayward not to work out. When healthy, he left. Not intended as a blame to Danny - it was a great signing at the time.

Yeah but re-qualifying a word to mean something totally different than its original meaning ... can see where the confusion came from.

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

Kemba was coming off an All-NBA season and had missed a total three games over the prior four years.  Sure, there was concern about how he’d look in year 4 of the deal, but it was pretty surprising he was irreparably damaged a half season in.

Sure, but Kemba even if he was healthy was never a great fit both on the court and in the timeline of Tatum and Brown.  He was also very expensive.  I said at the time and still maintain that going after Brogdon made far more sense for Boston.  He would have been a much better fit and he was significantly less expensive.  He arguably could have also played next to Rozier though that bridge may have been burned at that point regardless.

[SHAQATTACK]

Kemba cooked

[Sophomore]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

[Goldstar88]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

[Vermont Green]

People seem to love to second guess, after the fact, when all the uncertainty is removed.

Hayward?  At the time, I felt is was an overpay.  The signing ended up hurting the team due to injury so in a way, we will never really know what could have been.  Not too many were criticizing Ainge at the time of the signing.

Then came Kyrie.  I thought this was a great trade at the time.  Kyrie turned out to be a head case.  This is something I guess you could have determined before the trade.  I think the Celtics knew he was a head case but decided to take the chance on an elite player.  I have no problem with this trade.

Now with Kemba, I was not big on this but then for a stretch, Kemba was better than I expected.  Injury or wear and tear ended up being his demise.

So you can say that the Celtics were 0-3 on these big moves.  Missing like this on 3 moves like this would devastate most teams.  The Celtics are in pretty good shape considering.

[Celtics2021]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

[Celtics2021]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

Kemba was coming off an All-NBA season and had missed a total three games over the prior four years.  Sure, there was concern about how he’d look in year 4 of the deal, but it was pretty surprising he was irreparably damaged a half season in.

Sure, but Kemba even if he was healthy was never a great fit both on the court and in the timeline of Tatum and Brown.  He was also very expensive.  I said at the time and still maintain that going after Brogdon made far more sense for Boston.  He would have been a much better fit and he was significantly less expensive.  He arguably could have also played next to Rozier though that bridge may have been burned at that point regardless.

Kemba was healthy through Janaury his first year here.  During that time, the Celtics went 32-15 with the #6 offense, #4 defense, and were 3rd in Net rating, while Kemba earned a starting All-Star nod.  That team was a true contender before Kemba got hurt, and even with a slowed Kemba still made it to the conference finals.