Author Topic: How is Udoka different from Stevens?  (Read 4350 times)

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How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« on: November 07, 2021, 09:54:29 AM »

Offline Chef Parish

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And is it better (albeit small sample size)?

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2021, 10:17:07 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Udoka could still end up being a great head coach. It's still a very, very small sample size. I'm also high on him.

But like I've always said, the whole "it's Stevens fault" narrative was always overblown. At some point you have to look at the players and how they execute or hustle out there/play.

I mean so far? No real difference besides the fact that now even the players are publicly calling out others.

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Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2021, 10:55:29 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Different in every way it seems. Don’t think it can be said that he is better and I’m not sure that he will be. Ime is better at calling timeouts, though. Have to give him that.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 11:19:20 AM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2021, 12:02:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Too early to tell. Let's talk at the end of the year.

Udoka is still learning and growing as a coach. And we really have no idea if he can develop youth, which is an extremely important part of coaching and we may not know the answer to that until after year 2 or 3.

He was going completely all switch but now does drop his centers on occasion and let the defender fight over the screen. That's growth. He has given Nesmith some run where before he wasn't. That's growth. His team was awful defensively to start the year but over the last three games it's been dang good. That's growth. He went at Brown publicly, but last night where he could have publicly criticized Smart, he didn't and went all Belichick saying he has to coach better. That's growth.

In just a few weeks we are seeing better stuff from Udoka. If he continues this, he could be one helluva coach by year's end.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2021, 12:34:07 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Stevens was a veteran coach who coached like it. Udoka is a rookie coach who is coaching like it.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 01:42:27 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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C's fan over estimate how important a coach is to team success. Stevens was never as important as people thought when they were making ECF's, and he was never as responsible as people thought when they underwhelmed.

How is Ime different? So far..

-Plays his best players more minutes / shorter rotation
-Really wants to build defensive identify. Doesn't play questionable defense guys like Kanter, Pritchard, Nesmith even if they MIGHT help the offense.
-No afraid to call out guys by name. Or to tell you exactly what went wrong schematically.
-Really doubling down on switching defense.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2021, 01:48:06 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Udoka is not afraid of throwing his players under the bus lol


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Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2021, 03:11:21 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Udoka is not afraid of throwing his players under the bus lol
but he did the opposite with smart and his bone-head foul last game. udoka said it was a coaching mistake.

for me, this is improvement by udoka. i had reservations about him as a coach after the first few games. but i can see better defensive schemes and some growth by him as a coach.

i am willing to wait and see how he grows and develops as a coach.
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Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 12:15:26 AM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Celtics have the NBA's top-ranked defense over the last 7 games, giving up just 97 points per 100 possessions.

Next closest team is 2.7 points behind.

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Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 12:21:38 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Celtics have the NBA's top-ranked defense over the last 7 games, giving up just 97 points per 100 possessions.

Next closest team is 2.7 points behind.
What rank is our offence over the same stretch?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 12:38:45 AM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Celtics have the NBA's top-ranked defense over the last 7 games, giving up just 97 points per 100 possessions.

Next closest team is 2.7 points behind.
What rank is our offence over the same stretch?

I believe the Celtics have the 22nd ranked offence.
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Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 04:10:53 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He stinks at ATO's plays and in bound plays so far.  It is definitely an area he could improve at.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2021, 07:59:45 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Udoka is different from Stevens. He stinks at ATOs. Players seem to like him(for now anyways). He has a super short rotation though and fear he’s going to burn guys out. Stevens was king of using the deep bench.

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2021, 08:21:02 AM »

Offline td450

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One big negative for me. He doesn't seem to have any idea how to solve for 4th quarter play. Tatum and Smart still do all the same dumb stuff. We only won last night because Tatum and Smart backed off more than usual, and the team continued to spread it around.

One thing that bears watching is the point. Smart started with Jaylen and he was objectively horrible.

Udoka has started Shroder, but it has been more than that. Smart is not playing like a combo guard. Shroder has clearly assumed the point position and has assumed the #2 scoring position as a scoring point. This fits him, and its better for Marcus too. He really can't be the same defender on better point guards, and he isn't a good enough offensive player to be a quality point guard.

So what happens when Jaylen comes back? That will tell me whether Udoka has any chops. With Jaylen, Shroder as a shoot first point isn't so awesome, and who knows what we need Marcus for.

The answer is for Shroder to take less shots and focus on dishing and pace more. Smart seems to me to be a backup at both guard slots at best. Can Udokka get those guys to buy in?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 08:27:38 AM by td450 »

Re: How is Udoka different from Stevens?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2021, 09:29:14 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I remember that Terry Francona said that managers get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.  I think that applies to basketball also but maybe not as much as baseball.

I hate to say it, but I am not impressed so far with the coaching.  It is just a kind of observed thing but when I watch a team, sometimes you get the impression that it is a well coached team and other times not so much.  The Celtics have not looked like a well coached team this season.  Referencing the quote by Francona, it may not be all Ime's fault but he is the coach.

I feel the defense has improved lately.  The team seems more comfortable with the scheme.  They are not trying to switch everything but if it is a guard picking for a guard, they switch, a big and a guard, they try more often to fight through it.  That side of the ball looks good and probably will continue to improve.

On offense, I don't see a solid scheme.  Again, I see some improvement but too often, they just don't look like they have a plan.  They run a pick and roll or two or three, then someone is doubled, and it just kind of breaks down.  The plan or scheme only seems to extend to the ball handler and the picker.  The other 3 players don't seem to do anything but wait.  Everyone should have a read and a reaction.  The offense is just not that evolved yet.  That is coaching first and execution second.  It does not appear to me that the plan is there so there is no execution.