Kyrie or Simmons

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/stephen-a-smith-espn-backtrack-trade-kyrie-irving-ben-simmons/uinzcgdz3d6d1meqfov5t8vha

Supposedly Durant nixed a potential trade between these two recently. Who would you rather have, talent AND history of issues each one of them brings to the table considered?

[Csfan1984]

I'll take crazy and good over broken and good.

[Who]

I like Ben Simmons despite his weaknesses.

I can't stand Kyrie. It was a beautiful day when he left.

[Jvalin]

Depends on the rest of the players on each team's roster.

For instance, if we are talking about the Celtics (or the Nets), I'd much rather have Simmons. If we are talking about the Sixers (or the Heat / the Jazz), I'd much rather have Kyrie.

[Birdman]

Simmons is drama free, Kyrie isn’t and can hurt a team

[Surferdad]

Simmons is drama free, Kyrie isn’t and can hurt a team

Huh?  This whole situation was precipitated by Simmons himself.

[tazzmaniac]

Assuming the goal is to compete for a championship, I'd much rather have Kyrie.  Simmons is a liability in the playoffs when his half court offense limitations come to the fore.  Imagine if the Sixers could swap Simmons for Kyrie.  They'd vault to the top of the championship contenders. 

[Moranis]

Assuming the goal is to compete for a championship, I'd much rather have Kyrie.  Simmons is a liability in the playoffs when his half court offense limitations come to the fore.  Imagine if the Sixers could swap Simmons for Kyrie.  They'd vault to the top of the championship contenders.

Ah yes because Irving has never played poorly in the post season.  You know we've never seen 6 of 21 for 15 points with 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 steal, and 3 turnovers in a closeout game his team lost from Irving.  I mean that has never happened.

[moiso]

I'm not sure about the Sixers being better off with Irving because I can see him wrecking the culture of that team pretty easily.  The team's upside would be higher but it's always a gamble with Irving.  I think the Nets would be better off with Simmons.  He is far more likely to buy into the program for the entire season and beyond.  Less likely to miss time for vaccine and personal reasons.  Irving's best talent is creating and knocking down shots for himself, and the Nets already have two of the best in league history at doing that.  I think Simmons would fit in much better in every way other than floor spacing, and he'd contribute much more often.

[tazzmaniac]

Assuming the goal is to compete for a championship, I'd much rather have Kyrie.  Simmons is a liability in the playoffs when his half court offense limitations come to the fore.  Imagine if the Sixers could swap Simmons for Kyrie.  They'd vault to the top of the championship contenders.

Ah yes because Irving has never played poorly in the post season.  You know we've never seen 6 of 21 for 15 points with 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 steal, and 3 turnovers in a closeout game his team lost from Irving.  I mean that has never happened.

Everyone has bad games.  When has Simmons stepped up under pressure?  ...   We've certainly seen plenty of occasions where he wilts under pressure.  Amongst his comments on Simmons, Lacob questioned whether Simmons could play at the end of games. 

[Atzar]

I’d take Simmons on this team in an instant if I don’t have to give up Tatum or Brown for him.  I think he’s the Draymond-type playmaker/defender that they need to bring the most out of themselves. 

And I suspect that he’ll be fine once he gets out of Philly.  Of all the blue-chip picks they amassed, Embiid is the only one they actually developed.  They failed everybody else.  If that happens once or twice, I question the player.  If it happens repeatedly, I question the organization.  I think another org could get him out of his own way and let him be the best roleplayer in the NBA.

[SparzWizard]

The question is- who are we losing to get Kyrie or Simmons lol

[gouki88]

This is a great question. I'd probably go for Simmons. You could theoretically offset his weaknesses quite easily by playing him at the 4, and having two guys who take more shots than him (say, Tatum and Brown). Fill the rest of the roster with shooters.

Kyrie is a lunatic.

[Moranis]

Assuming the goal is to compete for a championship, I'd much rather have Kyrie.  Simmons is a liability in the playoffs when his half court offense limitations come to the fore.  Imagine if the Sixers could swap Simmons for Kyrie.  They'd vault to the top of the championship contenders.

Ah yes because Irving has never played poorly in the post season.  You know we've never seen 6 of 21 for 15 points with 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 steal, and 3 turnovers in a closeout game his team lost from Irving.  I mean that has never happened.

Everyone has bad games.  When has Simmons stepped up under pressure?  ...   We've certainly seen plenty of occasions where he wilts under pressure.  Amongst his comments on Simmons, Lacob questioned whether Simmons could play at the end of games.

Simmons isn't a scorer and never will be, but he has had plenty of good games in the playoffs.  And even in that game 7 where he didn't shoot in the 4th quarter, he was +1 in 36 minutes while the team was -8 in the 12 minutes he was on the bench because he was still playing some of the best defense in the world, getting rebounds, and dishing out assists.  He had 13 assists and 8 rebounds after all, and most of all Trae Young was 5 of 23 in that game largely because of Simmons. 

Irving fails all of the time defensively and about half the time doesn't show up offensively either.  If you want to talk about a guy who is inconsistent and unreliable that would be Irving.  With Simmons you know what you are going to get every single game i.e. a guy that isn't going to score, but will defend multiple positions, rebound, and pass.  That is what Simmons is, expecting him to be more than that has been Philadelphia's greatest failure recently. 

[Erik]

Simmons is drama free, Kyrie isn’t and can hurt a team

Huh?  This whole situation was precipitated by Simmons himself.

Let’s be real though… they didn’t want him back in Philly. This is a bit different than a guy forcing his way out because he doesn’t like his team. I think it’s pretty mutual at this point.

Tough choice though. Irving is a clearly superior player as I’ve made my opinion on Simmons known since he was drafted (you can’t be a star nowadays without being able to shoot). Even LeBron, (who is several magnitudes better than Simmons at creating opportunities at the basket) learned that.

He is unable to run the pick and roll (the most effective offensive set) because no one will respect his shot and will play under the pick.

He has since shown 0 progress at that. His unwillingness to improve is by far the biggest red flag for him. Is he just lazy or is he unenthusiastic about becoming a top player ?

So do you go with an above average rotational player (IMO being very kind here) or basically a lock all star with health issues and possibly bipolar? Who knows.