Author Topic: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games  (Read 28157 times)

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Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2021, 04:54:27 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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In the last month....I know of 7 people who have been vaxxed and have gotten Covid (all were fine). A good friend of mine was double vaxxed, got Covid and we're pretty sure he gave me Covid over 2 weeks ago--I took Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc Sulfate, Barely had a fever for a couple of days and am 100% now.

I'm not anti-vax, I just did my research....Nobody could tell me the long term effects of this Vaccination, because NOBODY knows, it's too new. Make your own decisions.

What exactly does that mean to you? Did you personally talk to health professionals? Did you do internet searches? Watch videos on YouTube?
This phrase baffles me because unless you yourself do human clinical trials, then you are basically listening to others, who may be listening to others who may not be qualified, or have nefarious motives to manipulate information - IJS


 He means nobody can tell you the long term effects because  NOBODY knows silly billy.
Yeah except there haven't been long term side effects for any vaccines in a very long time.  These vaccines are all based on existing methods and those methods do not produce long term side effects.  The side effects that do develop, develop basically immediately (some of them can last long term - i.e. mycarditis can linger for years and maybe forever, but you know if that was a side effect very quickly).  That is how the science works.



 Are you serious? These have never been used and never passed stage three animal trials. Mrna is brand new. Long term effects are not known.  And as Celtics4ever pointed out your statement on long term effect is false.

 Also the senate doesn't have to get the jab. Why is that?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 05:03:09 PM by KG Living Legend »

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2021, 05:01:09 PM »

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As a non-vaccinated person, you are a greater risk to other people than a vaccinated person.  You say you think you got COVID and if you did, you may have spread it to others.  Had you gotten vaccinated, you may not have gotten it and if you did end up being a rare breakthrough case, you would be less likely to spread it.

Some of those consequences could be lack of access to business who choose for the safety of their customers and employees to limit their business to only vaccinated people.   Lack of employment options as some employers may not want the greater risk for other employees or customers.  Other parents may not want you to go to a school event where unvaccinated kids are present as there would be greater risk to them.

If you accept the consequences and act accordingly, you can skip the vaccine and keep the hydroxychloroquine handy if that is what you want.  But you have to accept those who are not going to want to share a restaurant with you, sit next to you at work, or have you around their kids and respect, not resent, their choices.

I dont want to sit next to you if you have a cold - but closing off society to a group of people without any symptoms (many with natural immunity) is not how we have ever operated as a society.  As a vaxd person you can still get/spread it, so why do I have to sit next to you?  As a heathly person that has already had it and recovered - I likely have better protected than you thus you are a bigger threat to me than i am to you.  At some point we just need to get back to normal, assume the reasonable risks of living life.

Covid has been so politicized it has made people entirely irrational as many demonstrate here on CS - begging the govt to lock them in their homes.  Polling has shown that people dramatically over estimate risks associated with Covid.  Once politics gets involve it ultimately means one group employing the state to use violence to force their prerogative on the out of power group.  The stakes get very high.

Your personal view is that COVID has been over-politicized and that distancing, masking, and vaccinations are an over reactions but the consensus of the scientific community in the world has a different view.  Society as whole is following the scientific consensus, you are taking hydroxychloroquine because you think you have COVID (or did a Doctor prescribe this?).

You actually proved my point.  You want the right to make your own decision about the vaccine but are not willing to respect the decision of everyone else who is following the scientific consensus.  You want your cake and eat it too.  I am sure that you, and at least one other poster I can think of, will not like hearing this but I think it is pretty clearly true.

The one part of your story that is difficult to make into policy is how do you treat someone that has been infected and developed natural immunity.  I don't think the question of whether natural immunity is more robust than vaccine immunity is resolved by the scientific community.  You probably figure you know the answer but the scientists are still looking at this.  If someone could test and prove that they have natural immunity, to me, I view that as either almost as good or potentially better than a vaccine and I have no quarrel with that person being given the same access or whatever as a vaccinated person.  The difficulty is that there has to be a way to prove or quantify it though; a test or something that can be documented.

If you are not vaccinated, and can't prove you have had it, you are a greater risk to me and everyone else than a vaccinated person, at least according to the world wide scientific consensus.   Your decision to not get vaccinated then affects me and everyone else, something you seem unwilling to acknowledge and respect.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2021, 05:04:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I got mild myocarditis from Covid, and after each vaccine but it resolved itself each time.   My was worse after the virus and the second shot.

Quote
Conclusions: Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

Quote
Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson).

In most cases, patients who presented for medical care have responded well to medications and rest and had prompt improvement of symptoms. Reported cases have occurred predominantly in male adolescents and young adults 16 years of age and older. Onset was typically within several days after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, and cases have occurred more often after the second dose than the first dose. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports of myocarditis and pericarditis following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

Quote
Yeah except there haven't been long term side effects for any vaccines in a very long time.  These vaccines are all based on existing methods and those methods do not produce long term side effects.  The side effects that do develop, develop basically immediately (some of them can last long term - i.e. mycarditis can linger for years and maybe forever, but you know if that was a side effect very quickly).  That is how the science works. 

This is not entirely true, people have made VAERS reports prior to Covid,  Here are some from the Flu Vaccine from 1990 not Covid related.  Rest Assured they are rare but you can look here.

https://openvaers.com/openvaers

The things is this vaccine was rushed through fast without normal trials or as extensive trials.  Here is the Vaers data

Quote
Data released Sept. 17 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) showed that between Dec. 14, 2020 and Sept. 10, 2021, a total of 701,561 adverse events following COVID vaccines were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). The data included a total of 14,925 reports of deaths — an increase of 419 over the previous week.

There were 91,523 reports of serious injuries, including the reports of deaths, during the same time period — up 3,352 compared with the previous week.

Excluding “foreign reports” filed in VAERS, 559,462 adverse events, including 6,756 deaths and 43,073 serious injuries, were reported in the U.S. between Dec. 14, 2020 and Sept. 10, 2021.

Of the 6,756 U.S. deaths reported as of Sept. 10, 12% occurred within 24 hours of vaccination, 17% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination and 31% occurred in people who experienced an onset of symptoms within 48 hours of being vaccinated.

In the U.S., 378.2 million COVID vaccine doses had been administered as of Sept. 10. This includes: 216 million doses of Pfizer, 148 million doses of Moderna and 15 million doses of Johnson & Johnson (J&J).

More data, please note the outcomes to a bad vaccine reaction are very similar to covid itself and age does play a factor.

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/08/20/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-8-13-2021/

DON"T TAKE THIS AS MEDICAL ADVICE, YOU SHOULD ONLY GET MEDICAL ADVICE FROM YOUR DOCTOR  THIS IS JUST DATA.

My doctor recommended I get the vaccine after having it and I did, I had the myocarditis and it is better now in my case.   I have a job that I have to work with people in the community and visit their homes.   I have not got covid since my initial infection.   I've heard that having prior covid and getting the vaccine provides even more protection.  I take reasonable precautions

Medicine should not be politicized period.  Greatt post SDceltGuy  TP to you
My comments wasn't that there were not side effects.  There absolutely are side effects.  My post was that the side effects are known almost immediately.  Those side effects could last for years (or maybe forever), but they don't just appear years after you get the vaccine, they are there almost immediately.
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Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2021, 05:04:44 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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How do you THINK you got Covid? If you think you have it, go get tested, otherwise you don't know.  I've heard this nonsense from people in my circles. Then two that said it, got Covid, one was hospitalized for a week and now has heart issues. The other was sick as a dog at home for two weeks. Both ended up giving it to loved ones, including my nephew who is a teenager.

All (2 adults + 5 kids 10-18yrs) in my family has had it - confirmed via testing.  Once initial data started showing no real risk to healthy sub 60 yr old people we decided to not worry about and just get it over and out of the way.  We did our quarantine and then went about life which wasnt too difficult here in SD.  This is how low risk viruses (for most people) have always been dealt with and is the most logical way to handle them.   

You do understand that everyone is going to get it eventually.  These halfassed vaxs arent very good, so are you going to mask, distance and degrade you life forever? Because that is how long Covid will likely be with us.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2021, 05:11:24 PM »

Offline gouki88

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How do you THINK you got Covid? If you think you have it, go get tested, otherwise you don't know.  I've heard this nonsense from people in my circles. Then two that said it, got Covid, one was hospitalized for a week and now has heart issues. The other was sick as a dog at home for two weeks. Both ended up giving it to loved ones, including my nephew who is a teenager.

All (2 adults + 5 kids 10-18yrs) in my family has had it - confirmed via testing.  Once initial data started showing no real risk to healthy sub 60 yr old people we decided to not worry about and just get it over and out of the way.  We did our quarantine and then went about life which wasnt too difficult here in SD.  This is how low risk viruses (for most people) have always been dealt with and is the most logical way to handle them.   

You do understand that everyone is going to get it eventually.  These halfassed vaxs arent very good, so are you going to mask, distance and degrade you life forever? Because that is how long Covid will likely be with us.
Lol
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Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2021, 05:19:01 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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Your personal view is that COVID has been over-politicized and that distancing, masking, and vaccinations are an over reactions but the consensus of the scientific community in the world has a different view. 

Sorry there is no there is no "scientific consensus" especially on a complex issue like this.   

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2021, 05:19:35 PM »

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How do you THINK you got Covid? If you think you have it, go get tested, otherwise you don't know.  I've heard this nonsense from people in my circles. Then two that said it, got Covid, one was hospitalized for a week and now has heart issues. The other was sick as a dog at home for two weeks. Both ended up giving it to loved ones, including my nephew who is a teenager.

All (2 adults + 5 kids 10-18yrs) in my family has had it - confirmed via testing.  Once initial data started showing no real risk to healthy sub 60 yr old people we decided to not worry about and just get it over and out of the way.  We did our quarantine and then went about life which wasnt too difficult here in SD.  This is how low risk viruses (for most people) have always been dealt with and is the most logical way to handle them.   

You do understand that everyone is going to get it eventually.  These halfassed vaxs arent very good, so are you going to mask, distance and degrade you life forever? Because that is how long Covid will likely be with us.

Actually, I don't understand that.  Can you explain why that is?  Is everyone going to get Polio and Small Pox too?  Or is only the COVID vaccine not very good?  How does that work exactly?  How are the vaccines or the immune responses different?

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2021, 05:49:47 PM »

Offline gouki88

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How do you THINK you got Covid? If you think you have it, go get tested, otherwise you don't know.  I've heard this nonsense from people in my circles. Then two that said it, got Covid, one was hospitalized for a week and now has heart issues. The other was sick as a dog at home for two weeks. Both ended up giving it to loved ones, including my nephew who is a teenager.

All (2 adults + 5 kids 10-18yrs) in my family has had it - confirmed via testing.  Once initial data started showing no real risk to healthy sub 60 yr old people we decided to not worry about and just get it over and out of the way.  We did our quarantine and then went about life which wasnt too difficult here in SD.  This is how low risk viruses (for most people) have always been dealt with and is the most logical way to handle them.   

You do understand that everyone is going to get it eventually.  These halfassed vaxs arent very good, so are you going to mask, distance and degrade you life forever? Because that is how long Covid will likely be with us.

Actually, I don't understand that.  Can you explain why that is?  Is everyone going to get Polio and Small Pox too?  Or is only the COVID vaccine not very good?  How does that work exactly?  How are the vaccines or the immune responses different?
Going to pre-empt the response with a "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh", ;D
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Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2021, 06:03:04 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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Actually, I don't understand that.  Can you explain why that is?  Is everyone going to get Polio and Small Pox too?  Or is only the COVID vaccine not very good?  How does that work exactly?  How are the vaccines or the immune responses different?

I probably did overstate that a bit. What I mean is that there is a high likelihood that this turns into something like the flu virus. COVID will likely mutate to become more infectious but less deadly from what I have read.  And like the flu virus it will always be around and your chances of catching it sometime are very high.

As far as the vaccine not being very good I think the evidence clearly indicates that are not very good (as far as other vaccines go).  It doesn’t prevent you from getting it. It just lowers your likelihood and it looks like you’re going to need constant boosters. Maybe they will come up with better vaccines but these ones leave a lot to be desired.  These vaccines could also be making the problem worse because they are not 100% affective thereby allowing the virus to mutate and keep spreadingSimilar to bacteria becoming resistant two antibiotics.

 Of course nobody knows anything for sure. We can only use the data we have to draw our own conclusions Based on our individual risk tolerance.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2021, 06:04:06 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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Going to pre-empt the response with a "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh", ;D

No you should just do what the government tells you like a good little citizen.  They are always truthful and correct.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2021, 06:13:14 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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As a non-vaccinated person, you are a greater risk to other people than a vaccinated person.  You say you think you got COVID and if you did, you may have spread it to others.  Had you gotten vaccinated, you may not have gotten it and if you did end up being a rare breakthrough case, you would be less likely to spread it.

Some of those consequences could be lack of access to business who choose for the safety of their customers and employees to limit their business to only vaccinated people.   Lack of employment options as some employers may not want the greater risk for other employees or customers.  Other parents may not want you to go to a school event where unvaccinated kids are present as there would be greater risk to them.

If you accept the consequences and act accordingly, you can skip the vaccine and keep the hydroxychloroquine handy if that is what you want.  But you have to accept those who are not going to want to share a restaurant with you, sit next to you at work, or have you around their kids and respect, not resent, their choices.

I dont want to sit next to you if you have a cold - but closing off society to a group of people without any symptoms (many with natural immunity) is not how we have ever operated as a society.  As a vaxd person you can still get/spread it, so why do I have to sit next to you?  As a heathly person that has already had it and recovered - I likely have better protected than you thus you are a bigger threat to me than i am to you.  At some point we just need to get back to normal, assume the reasonable risks of living life.

Covid has been so politicized it has made people entirely irrational as many demonstrate here on CS - begging the govt to lock them in their homes.  Polling has shown that people dramatically over estimate risks associated with Covid.  Once politics gets involve it ultimately means one group employing the state to use violence to force their prerogative on the out of power group.  The stakes get very high.

Your personal view is that COVID has been over-politicized and that distancing, masking, and vaccinations are an over reactions but the consensus of the scientific community in the world has a different view.  Society as whole is following the scientific consensus, you are taking hydroxychloroquine because you think you have COVID (or did a Doctor prescribe this?).

You actually proved my point.  You want the right to make your own decision about the vaccine but are not willing to respect the decision of everyone else who is following the scientific consensus.  You want your cake and eat it too.  I am sure that you, and at least one other poster I can think of, will not like hearing this but I think it is pretty clearly true.

The one part of your story that is difficult to make into policy is how do you treat someone that has been infected and developed natural immunity.  I don't think the question of whether natural immunity is more robust than vaccine immunity is resolved by the scientific community.  You probably figure you know the answer but the scientists are still looking at this.  If someone could test and prove that they have natural immunity, to me, I view that as either almost as good or potentially better than a vaccine and I have no quarrel with that person being given the same access or whatever as a vaccinated person.  The difficulty is that there has to be a way to prove or quantify it though; a test or something that can be documented.

If you are not vaccinated, and can't prove you have had it, you are a greater risk to me and everyone else than a vaccinated person, at least according to the world wide scientific consensus.   Your decision to not get vaccinated then affects me and everyone else, something you seem unwilling to acknowledge and respect.
A "scientific consensus" is not science. That's an oxymoronic term.

There is no science to back up the vaccines, nor social distancing, nor masks. The gov't lies to us over and over, and yet people just widely accept anything they tell them. I've seen and read countless doctors assenting to the above, only to have their voice quashed by the gov't media complex. They tell the public one thing, and media, social media, the entertainment conglomerates rally to make that a reality, not even permitting evidence to the contrary. What's another word for that?

Cambridge Dictionary:
Brainwash - to make someone believe something by repeatedly telling them that it is true and preventing any other information from reaching them.

Tens of millions of people are not going to get vaccinated. They have zero trust for the gov't and institutions that are pushing this "vaccine", and it's not just in America, it's around the world. You accept this poison and tyranny if you want, brother, I will not.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2021, 06:30:07 PM »

Offline gift

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How do you THINK you got Covid? If you think you have it, go get tested, otherwise you don't know.  I've heard this nonsense from people in my circles. Then two that said it, got Covid, one was hospitalized for a week and now has heart issues. The other was sick as a dog at home for two weeks. Both ended up giving it to loved ones, including my nephew who is a teenager.

All (2 adults + 5 kids 10-18yrs) in my family has had it - confirmed via testing.  Once initial data started showing no real risk to healthy sub 60 yr old people we decided to not worry about and just get it over and out of the way.  We did our quarantine and then went about life which wasnt too difficult here in SD.  This is how low risk viruses (for most people) have always been dealt with and is the most logical way to handle them.   

You do understand that everyone is going to get it eventually.  These halfassed vaxs arent very good, so are you going to mask, distance and degrade you life forever? Because that is how long Covid will likely be with us.

Actually, I don't understand that.  Can you explain why that is?  Is everyone going to get Polio and Small Pox too?  Or is only the COVID vaccine not very good?  How does that work exactly?  How are the vaccines or the immune responses different?

I have to apologize. I dismissed a post of yours before when you compared this vaccine/disease to (I think) small pox or polio. I genuinely thought you were just trying to make me seem anti-vax. I’m realizing now that you actually don’t understand how leaky these vaccines are (yes leaky is a term that is used in immunology). I’d encourage you to look into it.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2021, 06:38:11 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Actually, I don't understand that.  Can you explain why that is?  Is everyone going to get Polio and Small Pox too?  Or is only the COVID vaccine not very good?  How does that work exactly?  How are the vaccines or the immune responses different?

I probably did overstate that a bit. What I mean is that there is a high likelihood that this turns into something like the flu virus. COVID will likely mutate to become more infectious but less deadly from what I have read.  And like the flu virus it will always be around and your chances of catching it sometime are very high.

As far as the vaccine not being very good I think the evidence clearly indicates that are not very good (as far as other vaccines go).  It doesn’t prevent you from getting it. It just lowers your likelihood and it looks like you’re going to need constant boosters. Maybe they will come up with better vaccines but these ones leave a lot to be desired.  These vaccines could also be making the problem worse because they are not 100% affective thereby allowing the virus to mutate and keep spreadingSimilar to bacteria becoming resistant two antibiotics.

 Of course nobody knows anything for sure. We can only use the data we have to draw our own conclusions Based on our individual risk tolerance.

So what exactly do you think the difference is between the immunity you got from having it and the immunity from the vaccines? Do you think there is a separate biological process when you fought the actual virus, so that the immunity lasts forever and is 100% effective?
I'm bitter.

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2021, 06:54:42 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Going to pre-empt the response with a "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh", ;D

No you should just do what the government tells you like a good little citizen.  They are always truthful and correct.
American governments are particularly dishonest, especially under Trump, so that makes sense. It's pretty observable around the world that the more compliant populaces, with a larger sense of collective responsibility, have done far better than the US. No other developed nation has such a culture of selfishness, and no other developed nation has suffered nearly as much from COVID.

The US is on track for 850,000+ total deaths by Christmas, if deaths don't continue their upward trend. That's around 0.0026% of the total population gone. France, another developed nation with a similar relationship to the state, is looking at having lost 0.0018% of its population by Christmas. Germany, right next door to France but with a totally different culture, is looking at having lost only 0.0012% of the population by Christmas.

I don't think it's coincidental at all that the nations where people behave "like good little citizens", as you so condescendingly put it, are doing far better off and are much less likely to have lost friends and family to a disease. But carry on fighting the gubment!
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Wiggins won't get vaccinated may be banned from playing home games
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2021, 07:55:03 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Huge surprise.... ::) ::) ::) ::)

Kyrie is unvaccinated and could be in danger of missing Nets home games. Man that guy just lives for creating drama.