Author Topic: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues  (Read 13838 times)

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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2021, 09:17:15 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Under this system, the sons of a rich black man benefit more than those of a white in generational poverty.  That’s not equity.

My ancestral history is filled with tales of woe, including fleeing what was essentially a ethnicity-based genocide.  My dad grew up living in a house with a dirt floor.  My mother’s family wad riddled with alcoholism and mental illness.  My mother is deceased, a victim of suicide.  My father is now disabled, a victim of cancer that was gifted to him from the drinking water at a military base he served at. I’m first generation college, and I’m under a staggering amount of college and grad school debt.

Where’s my equal playing field?

People are falling into the trap.  The trap is to make any well intentioned action or discussion involving race into something divisive.  It is easy to do.  These are complex issues.

As to Roy, there is no doubt that not every white male has been giving everything on a sliver platter but to your case specifically, you worked hard and succeeded against plenty of head winds but do you acknowledge that if in addition to all that, your skin was also dark, that it would have been even harder?  I think in general, that is the case, not in every case, but in general, there are going to be greater headwinds for African Americans and other minorities, be it coaching or anything.

It seems so hard to say just let the best man (or woman) win.  It should be easy.  Pick the best coach you feel will help your team win.  Pick the best employee that will help your company succeed.  Some companies see value, good for their brand, in having a diverse work force and make an effort to hire more minorities.  A professional sports team may feel that a black coach, even if not the most experienced, is a good message to send to their team.  These are business decisions.

I will say that having programs that target elevating minorities and underserved communities is a good investment for the country.  It should not be seen that it is at the expense of someone else.  Is a program to help minority inner city kids anti-white kids?  I don't feel it is correct or productive to view it that way.  If you can help some young minority kids not end up in jail, that is a good thing.  It is hard to execute programs like that but that should not stop you from trying.

From my life experience only, poverty seems to be a much greater headwind than race.  My guess is that middle class / upper class blacks have better outcomes than lower class whites.  Obviously, poor blacks have perhaps the greatest headwinds, but affirmative action isn't geared solely toward them.  If we truly care about equity, rather than appeasing political constituencies, I think it's past time to try to lift all races out of poverty, by giving them truly equal opportunity.  And yet, on college applications, those in poverty aren't given an automatic advantage in admissions like is done with race.  In fact, one's status as being poor is often used against an applicant if a college's admissions process is not "need blind".


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2021, 09:55:56 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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Under this system, the sons of a rich black man benefit more than those of a white in generational poverty.  That’s not equity.

My ancestral history is filled with tales of woe, including fleeing what was essentially a ethnicity-based genocide.  My dad grew up living in a house with a dirt floor.  My mother’s family wad riddled with alcoholism and mental illness.  My mother is deceased, a victim of suicide.  My father is now disabled, a victim of cancer that was gifted to him from the drinking water at a military base he served at. I’m first generation college, and I’m under a staggering amount of college and grad school debt.

Where’s my equal playing field?

People are falling into the trap.  The trap is to make any well intentioned action or discussion involving race into something divisive.  It is easy to do.  These are complex issues.

As to Roy, there is no doubt that not every white male has been giving everything on a sliver platter but to your case specifically, you worked hard and succeeded against plenty of head winds but do you acknowledge that if in addition to all that, your skin was also dark, that it would have been even harder?  I think in general, that is the case, not in every case, but in general, there are going to be greater headwinds for African Americans and other minorities, be it coaching or anything.

It seems so hard to say just let the best man (or woman) win.  It should be easy.  Pick the best coach you feel will help your team win.  Pick the best employee that will help your company succeed.  Some companies see value, good for their brand, in having a diverse work force and make an effort to hire more minorities.  A professional sports team may feel that a black coach, even if not the most experienced, is a good message to send to their team.  These are business decisions.

I will say that having programs that target elevating minorities and underserved communities is a good investment for the country.  It should not be seen that it is at the expense of someone else.  Is a program to help minority inner city kids anti-white kids?  I don't feel it is correct or productive to view it that way.  If you can help some young minority kids not end up in jail, that is a good thing.  It is hard to execute programs like that but that should not stop you from trying.

From my life experience only, poverty seems to be a much greater headwind than race.  My guess is that middle class / upper class blacks have better outcomes than lower class whites.  Obviously, poor blacks have perhaps the greatest headwinds, but affirmative action isn't geared solely toward them.  If we truly care about equity, rather than appeasing political constituencies, I think it's past time to try to lift all races out of poverty, by giving them truly equal opportunity.  And yet, on college applications, those in poverty aren't given an automatic advantage in admissions like is done with race.  In fact, one's status as being poor is often used against an applicant if a college's admissions process is not "need blind".

That is an interesting approach, target programs at those in poverty, not those of a minority or not.  I believe that there are general programs that are focused on poverty, irrespective of race, but I am not aware of that relative to college applications.   I have no disagreement with that approach.  Those in poverty have less opportunity to do well in school or on entrance exams so it seems reasonable to set aside some seats to allow some level of preference to those applicants.

You still couldn't help yourself from inserting the loaded statement "rather than appeasing political constituencies".  This reveals that you at the core still believe that all this affirmative action nonsense is just an attempt to appease a political constituency rather than a well intentioned attempt to do something right for society.  I understand it is hard to not be cynical, I feel the same level of cynicism in many cases, but that is how these things become divisive and unproductive (ie the trap).

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2021, 10:39:54 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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And how much time can someone really invest in social and political research while being a NBA basketball player?
I saw almost the exact same thing said a couple of offseasons ago when Jaylen was doing some touring across Europe and America gathering info about social issues. People complained because they wanted him to concentrate on his game and develop more.

Turns out, Jaylen found courts and gyms everywhere he went and was spending hours and hours a day working out and working on his game while also spending time traveling and educating himself. That next season, Jaylen exploded and averaged 20 PPG.

Turns out Jaylen CAN actually walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.
When you educate yourself on one side of the aisle it's called indoctrination, not education. It's what I see from Jaylen and this 25 year old who will learn there's more to social reform than what been built up in his head by a one sided narrative.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2021, 10:49:44 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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I fully understand that blacks have been dealt a tainted hand throughout history and even in the recent past, but they are also continually guilty of projecting to their children a self for-filling prophecy of negativity. Generally speaking, the average black household projects failure and hopelessness to their own children by fathers not playing an active roll.

Seventy percent of children growing without a father in the home is a travesty. And it has been worsening over the last sixty years, not improving. In the 1930s and 40s black families were whole and mostly intact.  Not only does this reflect on the fathers, but in the eyes of the children it also reflects on the mothers and the choices they made personally.

Blacks have been convinced that most white people hate them, this by a certain political party strictly for gaining a voting block. This needs to be honestly addressed by them.   

Sooner or later blacks need to look in the mirror and listen to a special leader that actually points a finger at their own culture, because in truth, it's ALSO a culture problem on their own part.

If Jaylen didn't mention such truths, then shame on him. 

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2021, 10:50:32 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Under this system, the sons of a rich black man benefit more than those of a white in generational poverty.  That’s not equity.

My ancestral history is filled with tales of woe, including fleeing what was essentially a ethnicity-based genocide.  My dad grew up living in a house with a dirt floor.  My mother’s family wad riddled with alcoholism and mental illness.  My mother is deceased, a victim of suicide.  My father is now disabled, a victim of cancer that was gifted to him from the drinking water at a military base he served at. I’m first generation college, and I’m under a staggering amount of college and grad school debt.

Where’s my equal playing field?

People are falling into the trap.  The trap is to make any well intentioned action or discussion involving race into something divisive.  It is easy to do.  These are complex issues.

As to Roy, there is no doubt that not every white male has been giving everything on a sliver platter but to your case specifically, you worked hard and succeeded against plenty of head winds but do you acknowledge that if in addition to all that, your skin was also dark, that it would have been even harder?  I think in general, that is the case, not in every case, but in general, there are going to be greater headwinds for African Americans and other minorities, be it coaching or anything.

It seems so hard to say just let the best man (or woman) win.  It should be easy.  Pick the best coach you feel will help your team win.  Pick the best employee that will help your company succeed.  Some companies see value, good for their brand, in having a diverse work force and make an effort to hire more minorities.  A professional sports team may feel that a black coach, even if not the most experienced, is a good message to send to their team.  These are business decisions.

I will say that having programs that target elevating minorities and underserved communities is a good investment for the country.  It should not be seen that it is at the expense of someone else.  Is a program to help minority inner city kids anti-white kids?  I don't feel it is correct or productive to view it that way.  If you can help some young minority kids not end up in jail, that is a good thing.  It is hard to execute programs like that but that should not stop you from trying.

From my life experience only, poverty seems to be a much greater headwind than race.  My guess is that middle class / upper class blacks have better outcomes than lower class whites.  Obviously, poor blacks have perhaps the greatest headwinds, but affirmative action isn't geared solely toward them.  If we truly care about equity, rather than appeasing political constituencies, I think it's past time to try to lift all races out of poverty, by giving them truly equal opportunity.  And yet, on college applications, those in poverty aren't given an automatic advantage in admissions like is done with race.  In fact, one's status as being poor is often used against an applicant if a college's admissions process is not "need blind".
Here is the problem with trying to lift people out of poverty, middle class and upper class people hate the idea. Those classes of people b!tch and moan about safety nets like Medicare, Medicaid, EBT programs, low rents in public housing, the amount of financial aid for college given to poor people, disability payments, minimum wages, etc.

There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

So yeah, let's address bringing all types of people out of poverty. It's already being done but to too small an extent and falls farther and farther from the goal as incomes for the poor have stagnated and are outpaced by inflation. That means these measures are doing less and less to lift people out of poverty every year.

I remember when I had to take over my dad's finances. I was kinda shocked to see the Social Security cost of living increases were smaller than the increase in Medicare price increases. My parents monthly SS checks got smaller each year of the three years I was administering their finances. Because of this, most elderly and disabled were actually getting poorer and poorer each year.

Yes, there are programs that are attempting to close the ethnicity gap in equity but there are programs also addressing the equity issue by trying to lift all people out of poverty. But trying to do either causes a lot of problems for a lot of people who don't like either of these attempts at equity distribution.

Give massive tax breaks to corporations and the highest earners, that's okay. Give more money to poor, regardless of whether done by race or income level, and that is not okay.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2021, 10:58:15 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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And how much time can someone really invest in social and political research while being a NBA basketball player?
I saw almost the exact same thing said a couple of offseasons ago when Jaylen was doing some touring across Europe and America gathering info about social issues. People complained because they wanted him to concentrate on his game and develop more.

Turns out, Jaylen found courts and gyms everywhere he went and was spending hours and hours a day working out and working on his game while also spending time traveling and educating himself. That next season, Jaylen exploded and averaged 20 PPG.

Turns out Jaylen CAN actually walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.
When you educate yourself on one side of the aisle it's called indoctrination, not education. It's what I see from Jaylen and this 25 year old who will learn there's more to social reform than what been built up in his head by a one sided narrative.
How do you know that Jaylen hasn't educated himself about both sides of the aisle but has chosen a more liberal slant in the social reforms he advocates for?

There is evidence he has done just that as not only has he been a leader in social reform, but he also has done seminars about how to create and maintain wealth and attempted to get more of his fellow NBA brethren to educate themselves on such issues.

It is possible to be informed on all types of issues, looking at all sides and decide one side is the side you agree with.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2021, 11:00:59 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Blacks have been convinced that most white people hate them, this by a certain political party strictly for gaining a voting block. This needs to be honestly addressed by them.   
Really? Because I have been immersed in the black and Latin communities for decades and almost all of the people I have encountered do not feel that way in the slightest.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2021, 11:17:22 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I glad he speaks up but he is ignorant on some issues but he has a great future on and off the court if he keeps listening and growing in both areas. I  think he can get top 20 in the NBA.
I look seeing him become who he will be when all is said and done. Proud for him to be  a Celtic!
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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2021, 11:32:58 AM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

Or welfare and other government programs that enable people to become dependent for generations are destructive.  Base level they create a moral hazard by enabling women to replacing fathers with govt handouts. 

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2021, 11:41:07 AM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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It is possible to be informed on all types of issues, looking at all sides and decide one side is the side you agree with.

And if he choose the other side - he would be vilified by the NBA, media and every corporation.  You are only allowed to express one opinion and if you comply you will be rewarded by the system.   

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2021, 12:08:34 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Blacks have been convinced that most white people hate them, this by a certain political party strictly for gaining a voting block. This needs to be honestly addressed by them.   
Really? Because I have been immersed in the black and Latin communities for decades and almost all of the people I have encountered do not feel that way in the slightest.



The Latin community has little to do with the plight of the Black community. Hispanic and Latins as a group are a naturally proud lot. Most are devoted to strong family ties. They salivate at the opportunity to own a business of their own, and work hard for the family. They've integrated well into the fabric of America. They remind me of the Italian-Americans of the 50s and 60s. They'll overcome because thier culture is solid and they believe.   

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2021, 03:50:00 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Blacks have been convinced that most white people hate them, this by a certain political party strictly for gaining a voting block. This needs to be honestly addressed by them.   
Really? Because I have been immersed in the black and Latin communities for decades and almost all of the people I have encountered do not feel that way in the slightest.



The Latin community has little to do with the plight of the Black community. Hispanic and Latins as a group are a naturally proud lot. Most are devoted to strong family ties. They salivate at the opportunity to own a business of their own, and work hard for the family. They've integrated well into the fabric of America. They remind me of the Italian-Americans of the 50s and 60s. They'll overcome because thier culture is solid and they believe.   
Dude, you don't have to tell me any of this. My ex wife of 30 years and my children are Puerto Rican. Also, it has nothing to do with my comment because even though the Latin community are all those things, they, as minorities could have easily have felt the same way about whites due to the racism they encounter. Lastly, it has nothing to do with your comment I quoted.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2021, 03:50:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

Or welfare and other government programs that enable people to become dependent for generations are destructive.  Base level they create a moral hazard by enabling women to replacing fathers with govt handouts.
And....there is the proof I mentioned.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2021, 03:54:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It is possible to be informed on all types of issues, looking at all sides and decide one side is the side you agree with.

And if he choose the other side - he would be vilified by the NBA, media and every corporation.  You are only allowed to express one opinion and if you comply you will be rewarded by the system.
So you're another person making bad assumptions about how Jaylen came to have his opinion. First guy assumes Jaylen only educated himself on one side of the issue and now you assume he only has that opinion to fit in and appease his employer and corporate partners.

Boy, you guys must either be on very close terms with Jaylen to know these things or tremendous mind readers.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2021, 04:10:34 PM »

Offline greg683x

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There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

Or welfare and other government programs that enable people to become dependent for generations are destructive.  Base level they create a moral hazard by enabling women to replacing fathers with govt handouts.
And....there is the proof I mentioned.


Can’t you make the same argument that there’s just as many people that don’t like the idea of making special arrangements and assistance for people based on race rather than income level? 

There’s plenty of proof of that in this thread too.  The only difference it seems like is which one person feels like is more the root of the problem.  I feel like deciding which solutions to go with based on which people would like it more is something politicians would base their decisions on instead of picking one that would be more appropriate for a societies actual faults

Personally I agree more with Roy’s side of things in this thread but am also pretty disappointed in some of the ignorance and shots being taken at Jaylen personally as well.  I think Jaylens hearts in the right place, I just feel like there’s a point where progress stops being progress and can turn into a reverse racism situation
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 04:22:14 PM by greg683x »
Greg