RoZier Signs 4 Year $97M Extension

[Vermont Green]

Charlotte also signed Oubre and will pay him $12M to go with overpaying for Hayward and Rozier.  I see a train wreck. 

[Moranis]

I'd rather pay Rozier that then Smart or Fournier what they got because Rozier is just a better player than both of those guys. 

That said, none of them make a whole lot of sense for Boston.

Rozier's contract is incredibly questionable, they're rewarding him for 1 good (outlier) season. That's a huge risk... but it's Charlotte, no one wants to play there, so it's understandable.

Keep in mind they have LaMelo Ball there though who can change things, and does make spending on Rozier this way not all that smart.

We'll see.

He was arguably better his first year in Charlotte than he was last year so it isn't a one year outlier.  Rozier was also a much better player in Boston when he started.  He was never good as a back-up, which is why he needed to leave, but Rozier as a starter has always performed well.  Some guys just need the consistency (in minutes and role) that starting provides.

Not with the level of efficiency he showed last year, which is why he's being rewarded this way. Not even close.

He was much better from 2 point range this year, no doubt, but his 1st year in Charlotte he was better from 3 and the line.  His AST% and TRB% were better in year 1 as well.  This idea that Rozier had a 1 year fluke just isn't borne in reality.  He has been very good both of his years in Charlotte.

What are you even talking about with AST% and TRB%... they're practically equal. As for 3-point, again close enough to make it negligible from a discussion standpoint.

I'm not saying anything about a fluke, just that this level of efficiency is not something he's enjoyed throughout his career up to this point... far from it. It is an outlier. His free-throw shooting his first year in Charlotte is also quite the outlier for him, it's really the only reason the difference in efficiency scoring/shooting wise isn't as great vs last season.

They could be the LaMelo/Hayward effect helping him, but even then... rolling the dice on someone who doesn't move the needle much and they're devoid of talent over there. Next year they would potentially have had quite a bit of cap space. But again, it's Charlotte so... even with those 2 guys hard to attract other players, so in that regard, Rozier makes SOME sense. But that contract is a bad one regardless, no one was going to pay Rozier THAT in the open market.

At MOST your argument should be that he's trending up after 2 seasons in Charlotte, but arguing that he had a better 1st year from the efficiency that is currently being rewarded as your evidence that this last year wasn't out of the norm for him is not the way to go honestly.

The question then becomes can he keep it up? To me that's a big question mark, lessened with having players like LaMelo and Hayward around to help... but even with the current numbers, I think he's being paid too much. They had no reason to fear losing him in free-agency to commit to him now particularly at this absurd amount.

But I see part of the problem in our discussion, I'm not dismissing his first season there as a good one for him... I'm just saying that the level he showed scoring the basketball is not something they had seen from him before, and it seems to me that's carrying the weight of the extension. But I don't think you need to make an argument that his first year there was better, it wasn't... unless we're making a Hayward/LaMelo adjustment to his play, but that's beyond me LOL.

Thankfully for them they should have another shot at it in 2023, maybe it'll work out then.

He was nearly 2% better from 3, that isn't negligible.  I mean imagine if Smart was 2% better how much of a difference that would make.

I said he was arguably better as a player, not just his efficiency, but in 2 of the 3 shooting metrics he was better his 1st year.  Those numbers also aren't that far off of his production when he actually started in Boston, including an entire 19 game playoff run in which he averaged 16.5, 5.3, 5.7 with a TS% at 53.8 against playoff competition. 

I was objecting to the characterization that Rozier had a one year outlier.  I just don't think that is the case at all.  Rozier, the starter, has been a fairly similar player even dating back to his Boston days.  I just wouldn't call last year an outlier at all.  That is who Rozier is when he starts and get touches. 

[jambr380]

Teams see something in both Rozier (and Fournier) that I don't.

Smart has had a major bigger impact on winning playoff games than either, and is getting paid less? This is looking like a shrewd move by Brad.

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[RodyTur10]

I give people more credit than that.  I think people thought he had to go because he and Morris effectively froze out players like Hayward and were playing for their next contract rather than to win games in their last year in Boston. Rozier then shot his way out of town with his interview at the end of the season.

Yea, Hayward was so happy to be rid of Terry he turned around and signed a 4-year contract to go play with him again the following summer.

I also think most fans looked at Rozier as what he was not what he became in Charlotte.

I mean, I agree that the people complaining the loudest didn't know what they were looking at. Letting Terry walk probably cost the team a Finals appearance.

Good for you, speaking honesty, and rightfully calling out the fanbase. TP.
We didn't appreciate Terry Rozier enough. At the time Ainge should have gotten value out of him.
It was clear that his ambitions (which I supported) where bigger than being a back-up to Irving.

When the news came out that Irving was gonna leave the Celtics and break his promise, it looked like as Rozier was mentally out as well. I don't know if management could have retained Rozier anyway, but it sure looked like they didn't try. Moving on way too easily. Perfect example of all the talent we lost in the last three years.

Just sign a player with a bigger reputation to please the fanbase in Kemba Walker. Even though it didn't make sense to sign an older undersized guard who's game is based on athletism, wasn't efficient and lacks playmaking skills. And quickly turned out to be very injury-prone as well. Big mistake.

This is a hefty contract for Rozier, so I guess you could say that the Celtics don't have to moarn about not having him on the payroll. However if either Schröder or Richardon pan out, how are we going to keep them? If I'm correct we can't even pay Schröder a big raise, can we? And if they fail what road will we go then?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'd rather pay Rozier that then Smart or Fournier what they got because Rozier is just a better player than both of those guys. 

That said, none of them make a whole lot of sense for Boston.

Rozier's contract is incredibly questionable, they're rewarding him for 1 good (outlier) season. That's a huge risk... but it's Charlotte, no one wants to play there, so it's understandable.

Keep in mind they have LaMelo Ball there though who can change things, and does make spending on Rozier this way not all that smart.

We'll see.

He was arguably better his first year in Charlotte than he was last year so it isn't a one year outlier.  Rozier was also a much better player in Boston when he started.  He was never good as a back-up, which is why he needed to leave, but Rozier as a starter has always performed well.  Some guys just need the consistency (in minutes and role) that starting provides.

Not with the level of efficiency he showed last year, which is why he's being rewarded this way. Not even close.

He was much better from 2 point range this year, no doubt, but his 1st year in Charlotte he was better from 3 and the line.  His AST% and TRB% were better in year 1 as well.  This idea that Rozier had a 1 year fluke just isn't borne in reality.  He has been very good both of his years in Charlotte.

What are you even talking about with AST% and TRB%... they're practically equal. As for 3-point, again close enough to make it negligible from a discussion standpoint.

I'm not saying anything about a fluke, just that this level of efficiency is not something he's enjoyed throughout his career up to this point... far from it. It is an outlier. His free-throw shooting his first year in Charlotte is also quite the outlier for him, it's really the only reason the difference in efficiency scoring/shooting wise isn't as great vs last season.

They could be the LaMelo/Hayward effect helping him, but even then... rolling the dice on someone who doesn't move the needle much and they're devoid of talent over there. Next year they would potentially have had quite a bit of cap space. But again, it's Charlotte so... even with those 2 guys hard to attract other players, so in that regard, Rozier makes SOME sense. But that contract is a bad one regardless, no one was going to pay Rozier THAT in the open market.

At MOST your argument should be that he's trending up after 2 seasons in Charlotte, but arguing that he had a better 1st year from the efficiency that is currently being rewarded as your evidence that this last year wasn't out of the norm for him is not the way to go honestly.

The question then becomes can he keep it up? To me that's a big question mark, lessened with having players like LaMelo and Hayward around to help... but even with the current numbers, I think he's being paid too much. They had no reason to fear losing him in free-agency to commit to him now particularly at this absurd amount.

But I see part of the problem in our discussion, I'm not dismissing his first season there as a good one for him... I'm just saying that the level he showed scoring the basketball is not something they had seen from him before, and it seems to me that's carrying the weight of the extension. But I don't think you need to make an argument that his first year there was better, it wasn't... unless we're making a Hayward/LaMelo adjustment to his play, but that's beyond me LOL.

Thankfully for them they should have another shot at it in 2023, maybe it'll work out then.

He was nearly 2% better from 3, that isn't negligible.  I mean imagine if Smart was 2% better how much of a difference that would make.

I said he was arguably better as a player, not just his efficiency, but in 2 of the 3 shooting metrics he was better his 1st year.  Those numbers also aren't that far off of his production when he actually started in Boston, including an entire 19 game playoff run in which he averaged 16.5, 5.3, 5.7 with a TS% at 53.8 against playoff competition. 

I was objecting to the characterization that Rozier had a one year outlier.  I just don't think that is the case at all.  Rozier, the starter, has been a fairly similar player even dating back to his Boston days.  I just wouldn't call last year an outlier at all.  That is who Rozier is when he starts and get touches.

It's negligible from the standpoint that 3-point shooting can easily vary year to year around that range, so I wouldn't make much out of it. Now the 7.5% on 2-pointers you brought is a huge increase to go along to an improved mix of shot selection vs the year prior. And yes, I'm focusing on the efficiency aspect as I think that's the driving force behind the contract more than anything and it looks like it's blinding Charlotte some.

[Moranis]

I'd rather pay Rozier that then Smart or Fournier what they got because Rozier is just a better player than both of those guys. 

That said, none of them make a whole lot of sense for Boston.

Rozier's contract is incredibly questionable, they're rewarding him for 1 good (outlier) season. That's a huge risk... but it's Charlotte, no one wants to play there, so it's understandable.

Keep in mind they have LaMelo Ball there though who can change things, and does make spending on Rozier this way not all that smart.

We'll see.

He was arguably better his first year in Charlotte than he was last year so it isn't a one year outlier.  Rozier was also a much better player in Boston when he started.  He was never good as a back-up, which is why he needed to leave, but Rozier as a starter has always performed well.  Some guys just need the consistency (in minutes and role) that starting provides.

Not with the level of efficiency he showed last year, which is why he's being rewarded this way. Not even close.

He was much better from 2 point range this year, no doubt, but his 1st year in Charlotte he was better from 3 and the line.  His AST% and TRB% were better in year 1 as well.  This idea that Rozier had a 1 year fluke just isn't borne in reality.  He has been very good both of his years in Charlotte.

What are you even talking about with AST% and TRB%... they're practically equal. As for 3-point, again close enough to make it negligible from a discussion standpoint.

I'm not saying anything about a fluke, just that this level of efficiency is not something he's enjoyed throughout his career up to this point... far from it. It is an outlier. His free-throw shooting his first year in Charlotte is also quite the outlier for him, it's really the only reason the difference in efficiency scoring/shooting wise isn't as great vs last season.

They could be the LaMelo/Hayward effect helping him, but even then... rolling the dice on someone who doesn't move the needle much and they're devoid of talent over there. Next year they would potentially have had quite a bit of cap space. But again, it's Charlotte so... even with those 2 guys hard to attract other players, so in that regard, Rozier makes SOME sense. But that contract is a bad one regardless, no one was going to pay Rozier THAT in the open market.

At MOST your argument should be that he's trending up after 2 seasons in Charlotte, but arguing that he had a better 1st year from the efficiency that is currently being rewarded as your evidence that this last year wasn't out of the norm for him is not the way to go honestly.

The question then becomes can he keep it up? To me that's a big question mark, lessened with having players like LaMelo and Hayward around to help... but even with the current numbers, I think he's being paid too much. They had no reason to fear losing him in free-agency to commit to him now particularly at this absurd amount.

But I see part of the problem in our discussion, I'm not dismissing his first season there as a good one for him... I'm just saying that the level he showed scoring the basketball is not something they had seen from him before, and it seems to me that's carrying the weight of the extension. But I don't think you need to make an argument that his first year there was better, it wasn't... unless we're making a Hayward/LaMelo adjustment to his play, but that's beyond me LOL.

Thankfully for them they should have another shot at it in 2023, maybe it'll work out then.

He was nearly 2% better from 3, that isn't negligible.  I mean imagine if Smart was 2% better how much of a difference that would make.

I said he was arguably better as a player, not just his efficiency, but in 2 of the 3 shooting metrics he was better his 1st year.  Those numbers also aren't that far off of his production when he actually started in Boston, including an entire 19 game playoff run in which he averaged 16.5, 5.3, 5.7 with a TS% at 53.8 against playoff competition. 

I was objecting to the characterization that Rozier had a one year outlier.  I just don't think that is the case at all.  Rozier, the starter, has been a fairly similar player even dating back to his Boston days.  I just wouldn't call last year an outlier at all.  That is who Rozier is when he starts and get touches.

It's negligible from the standpoint that 3-point shooting can easily vary year to year around that range, so I wouldn't make much out of it. Now the 7.5% on 2-pointers you brought is a huge increase to go along to an improved mix of shot selection vs the year prior. And yes, I'm focusing on the efficiency aspect as I think that's the driving force behind the contract more than anything and it looks like it's blinding Charlotte some.

But they gave him 19 million a year from his Boston production.  He has not only continued to produce, but has improved from his Boston days.  And maybe they overpaid him the first time as well, but his production has well earned the contract they gave him. 

[action781]

I'm a huge Terry fan and am happy he got this contract.  Dude can scrap and fight, which you don't find a lot of at the point guard position.  I'd rather have Terry than Fournier on most teams. 

Slight overpay maybe, but most FA signings are.  And they're only overpaid because its relative to the capped amount that superstar caliber players can make.  NBA really has to do away with max contracts.  Lebron not being able to earn $70 mil a year is the biggest driver behind Rozier caliber players getting overpaid like they do.  I dunno when the NBA will learn this.

[gouki88]

For reference, Jaylen Brown got a 4/107 contract.

Rozier improved a lot efficiency-wise with Ball and Hayward either side of him. Really allows him to excel in that undersized SG role on offence.

Still, it's an overpay.

Click to enlarge:

[Moranis]

For reference, Jaylen Brown got a 4/107 contract.

Yes coming off a season in which he averaged 13.0 p, 4.2 r, 1.4 a with a TS% of 54.7.  Now he was 22 and just finished year 3, but there is a reason Brown is now underpaid i.e. he made a huge leap that not even he predicted he would make (or he wouldn't have signed that contract).

[Roy H.]

I mean, I agree that the people complaining the loudest didn't know what they were looking at. Letting Terry walk probably cost the team a Finals appearance.

Which year?

[Ogaju]

Smart getting underpaid yet again. There is no reasonable explanation for Rozier making more money than Smart for playing basketball.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Smart getting underpaid yet again. There is no reasonable explanation for Rozier making more money than Smart for playing basketball.

Smart got the most he could get paid at this point in time...

[Who]

I'm a huge Terry fan and am happy he got this contract.  Dude can scrap and fight, which you don't find a lot of at the point guard position.  I'd rather have Terry than Fournier on most teams. 

Slight overpay maybe, but most FA signings are.  And they're only overpaid because its relative to the capped amount that superstar caliber players can make.  NBA really has to do away with max contracts.  Lebron not being able to earn $70 mil a year is the biggest driver behind Rozier caliber players getting overpaid like they do.  I dunno when the NBA will learn this.

I love his attitude. Does not back down. Accepts the challenge and gives everything he has to give. Not the most well rounded player or the smoothest but I love his fight.

[sgrogan]

For reference, Jaylen Brown got a 4/107 contract.

Yes coming off a season in which he averaged 13.0 p, 4.2 r, 1.4 a with a TS% of 54.7.  Now he was 22 and just finished year 3, but there is a reason Brown is now underpaid i.e. he made a huge leap that not even he predicted he would make (or he wouldn't have signed that contract).

I know you like to keep it real, but the alternative was to go to rookie UFA. He was coming off injury, although he had scored 30 in a playoff game.

He wasn't LeBron to demand a max, he's wasn't/isn't TRoz either.


 

[gouki88]

For reference, Jaylen Brown got a 4/107 contract.

Yes coming off a season in which he averaged 13.0 p, 4.2 r, 1.4 a with a TS% of 54.7.  Now he was 22 and just finished year 3, but there is a reason Brown is now underpaid i.e. he made a huge leap that not even he predicted he would make (or he wouldn't have signed that contract).

Irrelevant, as that wasn't my point. My point was that we have Brown on a bargain.