Celtics trade 2 second round picks in a S&T involving Evan Fournier to New York

[RJ87]

Which player could fit into that $17M TPE who’s a better fit than Fournier?

More like who is available that would be a better fit on this Celtics team? I think Lauri Markannen is worth it and we need a power forward.

So we send the Bulls some picks or players packaged with the TPE to acquire Lauri. However, since it can’t be a s&t as stated previously, we then risk losing Lauri for nothing next year if some team overpays for him?

Are we assuming Lauri takes the QO? In that case, he'd get veto power in the trade since he's agreeing to a one year deal. If he agrees to a trade, he forfeits his bird rights so the team getting him would have to create cap space to sign him next offseason.

[Celtics2021]

Which player could fit into that $17M TPE who’s a better fit than Fournier?

More like who is available that would be a better fit on this Celtics team? I think Lauri Markannen is worth it and we need a power forward.

Can't do a sign and trade since we used the tax MLE on Shroeder, so Markannen is out.

I don't think we used the tax MLE, we used a portion of the regular MLE. I think at this stage its a matter of semantics

If we use the regular MLE then we are hard capped and can’t take on any salary regardless, right?

Correct, we'd have to send out enough salary to fit Markannen under the hard cap, which we're theoretically at once Schroder signs his contract (if he hasn't already).  In which case we'd just use that outgoing salary to match Markannen and keep the TPE.

But functionally, Markkanen has been out since he wasn't acquired in the Tristan Thompson trade.  That was our best opportunity to fit him in, but it was some combination of a) we weren't interested, b) Markkanen wasn't interested in the salary we could offer in such a trade, and c) the Bulls weren't interested in the compensation we were willing to give them.

[Jvalin]

Which player could fit into that $17M TPE who’s a better fit than Fournier?

More like who is available that would be a better fit on this Celtics team? I think Lauri Markannen is worth it and we need a power forward.

Can't do a sign and trade since we used the tax MLE on Shroeder, so Markannen is out.

I don't think we used the tax MLE, we used a portion of the regular MLE. I think at this stage its a matter of semantics

Of course we used the taxpayer MLE. Here are the actual numbers.



Had we offered Schroder one cent more than the taxpayer MLE, we would have been hard capped at the apron. As things stand right now, we are $212,558 north of the apron. This means we wouldn't have been able to finalize the Schroder deal. We would have had to dump some salary first.

[Vermont Green]

We gave NYK two second rounders, one that is not likely to convey anyway and one that we don't really need.  In exchange, we got the TPE and some cash.  The TPE is just some flexibility.  To me, that flexibility is well worth the second round picks so this totally makes sense.

Now as far as filling the TPE with a Sign and Trade, this was debated to death on another thread.  It is kind of a Catch 22 with signing Schroder to a Tax or non-Tax MLE but in any event, we end up hard capped if we do a sign and trade to bring in a player, regardless of anything else.  We are already too close to the limit to bring in anyone without sending out at least as much salary to off set.  This new TPE is no help in that regard at this time with the roster/cap as it stands.  It doesn't even matter I don't think how the Schroder signing is classified.

We could bring in Bagley with the TPE (a straight trade) for example but not Markkanen in a sign and trade with the TPE.

I think in a trade, the incoming amount can be as much as 1.25 X the out going, or in this case, the TPE, is that correct (about $21M for a $17M TPE)?  If this is correct, could we get Gallinari (who is at $20.5M) with the TPE?

[GreenShooter]

I think as far as the TPE's go, it's "I'd rather have it and not need it (or unable to use it) than need it and not have it".
That said, sign me up for the Bagley trade if Brad doesn't have other plans. There is certainly another shoe, or few, to drop.

[Vermont Green]

Which player could fit into that $17M TPE who’s a better fit than Fournier?

More like who is available that would be a better fit on this Celtics team? I think Lauri Markannen is worth it and we need a power forward.

Can't do a sign and trade since we used the tax MLE on Shroeder, so Markannen is out.

I don't think we used the tax MLE, we used a portion of the regular MLE. I think at this stage its a matter of semantics

Of course we used the taxpayer MLE. Here are the actual numbers.



Had we offered Schroder one cent more than the taxpayer MLE, we would have been hard capped at the apron, hence we wouldn't have been able to acquire him. As things stand right now, we are $212,558 north of the apron.

The $5.89 could be either a portion of the non-tax MLE or all of the tax MLE.  It depends on the team salary status at the time the signing is processed with the NBA.  I believe that you are correct that the intent is to maintain the flexibility of the tax MLE but based on the extended discussion in another thread, you don't get to choose.  Either way, if we do a S&T, we end up hard capped and we don't have room under the hard cap right now to do anything unless we send out at least matching salary.  We can't use the TPE for a sign and trade right now, as things stand in any case.  But we also are not currently hard capped so we can use the TPE in a straight trade.

(Note:   I checked and the Schroder transactions is being listed as completed on 14 Aug 2021 so it is done, I believe it would count as the tax payer MLE, and we should not be hard capped, but I think the consensus is that we cannot do any S&T.  The Kanter signing is posted as the same day).

[Celtics2021]

I think as far as the TPE's go, it's "I'd rather have it and not need it (or unable to use it) than need it and not have it".
That said, sign me up for the Bagley trade if Brad doesn't have other plans. There is certainly another shoe, or few, to drop.

I think Bagley becomes an option for this TPE as a S&T next year.  This year I don't see it.

We heard about flexibility, and a TPE offers that.  At this size, with the C's already into the luxury tax, it feels like a TPE for next year, which will be useful now that they appear to be a team that will not have much cap space.  We'll see if TimeLord gets an extension in the coming months.

[Jvalin]

Which player could fit into that $17M TPE who’s a better fit than Fournier?

More like who is available that would be a better fit on this Celtics team? I think Lauri Markannen is worth it and we need a power forward.

Can't do a sign and trade since we used the tax MLE on Shroeder, so Markannen is out.

I don't think we used the tax MLE, we used a portion of the regular MLE. I think at this stage its a matter of semantics

Of course we used the taxpayer MLE. Here are the actual numbers.



Had we offered Schroder one cent more than the taxpayer MLE, we would have been hard capped at the apron, hence we wouldn't have been able to acquire him. As things stand right now, we are $212,558 north of the apron.

The $5.89 could be either a portion of the non-tax MLE or all of the tax MLE.  It depends on the team salary status at the time the signing is processed with the NBA.  I believe that you are correct that the intent is to maintain the flexibility of the tax MLE but based on the extended discussion in another thread, you don't get to choose.  Either way, if we do a S&T, we end up hard capped and we don't have room under the hard cap right now to do anything unless we send out at least matching salary.  We can't use the TPE for a sign and trade right now, as things stand in any case.  But we also are not currently hard capped so we can use the TPE in a straight trade.

It's not just about maintaining flexibility. Again, if we had used the non-taxpayer MLE, we wouldn't have been able to finalize the deal. We are already north of the apron. Can't sign a player via the non-taxpayer MLE if you end up over the apron.

Theoretically, we can dump some serious salary and then gain access to the remaining part of the MLE. If we use any ammount of the remaining MLE, we'll become hard capped at the apron.

[footey]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

[Jvalin]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

[footey]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

[Jvalin]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

[hpantazo]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

There are several ways to still create max cap space next summer

[Jvalin]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

There are several ways to still create max cap space next summer

No, there are not. Even if we dump everybody else (which won't happen obviously), we still won't have enough cap space to sign Beal.

1. Tatum $30,351,780
2. Brown $26,669,643
3. Smart $17,207,142
4. rookie minimum $979,466
5. rookie minimum $979,466
6. rookie minimum $979,466
7. rookie minimum $979,466
8. rookie minimum $979,466
9. rookie minimum $979,466
10. rookie minimum $979,466
11. rookie minimum $979,466
12. rookie minimum $979,466

dead salary
Jackson $92,857

Total: $83,136,616

Cap Projection: $119,000,000

This means we'd have $35,863,384 in cap space. Beal's max will start at $41,650,000. Even in this extreme and totally unrealistic scenario, we'd still be $5,786,616 short of Beal's max.

If you include Pritchard and Nesmith and stretch Horford's non-guaranteed salary for next season, we won't even have enough cap space to go after max free agents with 0-6 years of experience. Their max starts at 25% of the cap, but max candidates are usually restricted FAs anyway.

[Celtics2021]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

There are several ways to still create max cap space next summer

No, there are not. Even if we dump everybody else (which won't happen obviously), we still won't have enough cap space to sign Beal.

1. Tatum $30,351,780
2. Brown $26,669,643
3. Smart $17,207,142
4. rookie minimum $979,466
5. rookie minimum $979,466
6. rookie minimum $979,466
7. rookie minimum $979,466
8. rookie minimum $979,466
9. rookie minimum $979,466
10. rookie minimum $979,466
11. rookie minimum $979,466
12. rookie minimum $979,466

dead salary
Jackson $92,857

Total: $83,136,616

Cap Projection: $119,000,000

This means we'd have $35,863,384 in cap space. Beal's max will start at $41,650,000. Even in this extreme and totally unrealistic scenario, we'd still be $5,786,616 short of Beal's max.

If you include Pritchard, Nesmith and 2022 first, we won't even have enough cap space to go after max free agents with 0-6 years of experience. Their max starts at 25% of the cap, but most of them are restricted anyway.

Small thing, but you have too many minimum contracts.  We only have to have enough to get up to 12 roster spots.  If we include Pritchard, Nesmith, and a 1st in late 20s, and drop the corresponding minimums, we have room for a 25% max.  Probably not the direction we're going, but technically possible under your assumptions.

EDIT:  I think you edited your post while I was typing.  Or am I hallucinating?