BR Report: Celtics interested in acquiring Lauri Markkanan?

[liam]

I would've rather have kept our pick and grabbed Alperen Sengun.

Eh. He has no ability to play anywhere besides the 5, and would have struggled for the necessary minutes here. Wood is the ideal pairing for him in Houston with his perimeter game on offence

I love this kid he's going to be like Sabonis. You find room for him.

There's a big gap between one good Summer League game and the second best passing big man in the NBA. He's also got much less perimeter game than Sabonis, even as a young player. Sabonis also had a really unexpected developmental arc. I see him more as a Mason Plumlee type big with a Nurkic tier ceiling (pre-injury) than a perennial All-Star like Sabonis.

Sabonis has taken a fairly typical path improving every year with fairly big jumps between his 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd years.  That is what you'd expect, especially from a big man.

Please point to me all the posts of people predicting him to end up as a 20/12/7 guy after his rookie season.

There is a reason Indiana made him a big part of the Paul George trade.  Big men often take time to develop.  Jokic 10/7/2.5 in 22 mpg as a rookie.  John Collins 10.5/7.3 in 24 mpg as a rookie.  Capela played 12 games a rookie and even in year 2 was just a 7/6.5 guy in 17 mpg.  Nurkic, who you cited, 7/6 in 18 mpg as a rookie (pre-injury he was a 17.5/10.5 guy).  Gobert 2.3/2.3 in 9.6 mpg over 45 games as a rookie.  Even much lesser talented players like Steven Adams (3.3/4.1 in 17.8 mpg) or superstars like Anthony Davis (13.5/8 over 29 mpg) have bad rookie years statistically.  That doesn't mean all big men are awful as rookies.  Towns and Ayton were both very good.

Sure guys sometimes surprise with their peaks.  I mean no one saw Giannis coming, but it also is very common for young big men to make massive leaps in production after their 1st and 2nd years, which is exactly what Sabonis did.

The difference being Sabonis has made big leaps every single season. That's what makes him stand out. Even this past season his passing made a significant jump. Nobody is disputing that bigs take time. But nobody thought Sabonis would become this triple-double machine that he is now, and I don't think it's wise to try and peg Sengun as the next Sabonis before he's played a real NBA minute.

I said his game was like Sabonis not that he'd be as good. He plays like Sabonis.

Which I don't really agree with either. His passing and ball-handling is much more Al Horford than Sabonis (high post passing rather than initiating the offence). He really needs to develop a perimeter game on offence to maximise his passing I think. If he can do that he should be a fun duo with Wood. I also think Sengun has a better defensive floor than Sabonis - seems way more willing to protect the rim.

So I think I'm settling on Al Horford without a jump shot as my comparison for him

He was 1-2 from three tonight.

[gouki88]

I would've rather have kept our pick and grabbed Alperen Sengun.

Eh. He has no ability to play anywhere besides the 5, and would have struggled for the necessary minutes here. Wood is the ideal pairing for him in Houston with his perimeter game on offence

I love this kid he's going to be like Sabonis. You find room for him.

There's a big gap between one good Summer League game and the second best passing big man in the NBA. He's also got much less perimeter game than Sabonis, even as a young player. Sabonis also had a really unexpected developmental arc. I see him more as a Mason Plumlee type big with a Nurkic tier ceiling (pre-injury) than a perennial All-Star like Sabonis.

Sabonis has taken a fairly typical path improving every year with fairly big jumps between his 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd years.  That is what you'd expect, especially from a big man.

Please point to me all the posts of people predicting him to end up as a 20/12/7 guy after his rookie season.

There is a reason Indiana made him a big part of the Paul George trade.  Big men often take time to develop.  Jokic 10/7/2.5 in 22 mpg as a rookie.  John Collins 10.5/7.3 in 24 mpg as a rookie.  Capela played 12 games a rookie and even in year 2 was just a 7/6.5 guy in 17 mpg.  Nurkic, who you cited, 7/6 in 18 mpg as a rookie (pre-injury he was a 17.5/10.5 guy).  Gobert 2.3/2.3 in 9.6 mpg over 45 games as a rookie.  Even much lesser talented players like Steven Adams (3.3/4.1 in 17.8 mpg) or superstars like Anthony Davis (13.5/8 over 29 mpg) have bad rookie years statistically.  That doesn't mean all big men are awful as rookies.  Towns and Ayton were both very good.

Sure guys sometimes surprise with their peaks.  I mean no one saw Giannis coming, but it also is very common for young big men to make massive leaps in production after their 1st and 2nd years, which is exactly what Sabonis did.

The difference being Sabonis has made big leaps every single season. That's what makes him stand out. Even this past season his passing made a significant jump. Nobody is disputing that bigs take time. But nobody thought Sabonis would become this triple-double machine that he is now, and I don't think it's wise to try and peg Sengun as the next Sabonis before he's played a real NBA minute.

I said his game was like Sabonis not that he'd be as good. He plays like Sabonis.

Which I don't really agree with either. His passing and ball-handling is much more Al Horford than Sabonis (high post passing rather than initiating the offence). He really needs to develop a perimeter game on offence to maximise his passing I think. If he can do that he should be a fun duo with Wood. I also think Sengun has a better defensive floor than Sabonis - seems way more willing to protect the rim.

So I think I'm settling on Al Horford without a jump shot as my comparison for him

Al Horford without a jump-shot = Bam Adebayo

Although that shot is slowly improving year on year.

I was getting a bit lazy with the comparison by the end. Adebayo is more athletic than Horford, who is more athletic than Sengun. Adebayo is also a much more aggressive scorer than Horford was (when Horford made the leap to good passing)

[Moranis]

I would've rather have kept our pick and grabbed Alperen Sengun.

Eh. He has no ability to play anywhere besides the 5, and would have struggled for the necessary minutes here. Wood is the ideal pairing for him in Houston with his perimeter game on offence

I love this kid he's going to be like Sabonis. You find room for him.

There's a big gap between one good Summer League game and the second best passing big man in the NBA. He's also got much less perimeter game than Sabonis, even as a young player. Sabonis also had a really unexpected developmental arc. I see him more as a Mason Plumlee type big with a Nurkic tier ceiling (pre-injury) than a perennial All-Star like Sabonis.

Sabonis has taken a fairly typical path improving every year with fairly big jumps between his 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd years.  That is what you'd expect, especially from a big man.

Please point to me all the posts of people predicting him to end up as a 20/12/7 guy after his rookie season.

There is a reason Indiana made him a big part of the Paul George trade.  Big men often take time to develop.  Jokic 10/7/2.5 in 22 mpg as a rookie.  John Collins 10.5/7.3 in 24 mpg as a rookie.  Capela played 12 games a rookie and even in year 2 was just a 7/6.5 guy in 17 mpg.  Nurkic, who you cited, 7/6 in 18 mpg as a rookie (pre-injury he was a 17.5/10.5 guy).  Gobert 2.3/2.3 in 9.6 mpg over 45 games as a rookie.  Even much lesser talented players like Steven Adams (3.3/4.1 in 17.8 mpg) or superstars like Anthony Davis (13.5/8 over 29 mpg) have bad rookie years statistically.  That doesn't mean all big men are awful as rookies.  Towns and Ayton were both very good.

Sure guys sometimes surprise with their peaks.  I mean no one saw Giannis coming, but it also is very common for young big men to make massive leaps in production after their 1st and 2nd years, which is exactly what Sabonis did.

The difference being Sabonis has made big leaps every single season. That's what makes him stand out. Even this past season his passing made a significant jump. Nobody is disputing that bigs take time. But nobody thought Sabonis would become this triple-double machine that he is now, and I don't think it's wise to try and peg Sengun as the next Sabonis before he's played a real NBA minute.

Sabonis has continued to improve through 5 seasons, which also is pretty common. That said, per 36 minutes, his 3rd year has been his best statistical season (outside of passing).  He had the highest per minute production from pretty much everywhere and that was by far is most efficient shooting season.  The advanced metrics favor that season as well including things like WS which have a minutes component to them.  He wasn't a starter nor playing starter minutes then, but was playing over half the game and producing at a pretty high rate.  His 4th year he became the starter, with starter minutes and stats, but Sabonis has been a pretty similar player the last 3 seasons (i.e. his 3rd, 4th, and 5th seasons). 

This just strikes me more like you weren't paying attention to Sabonis, which makes sense as he wasn't a Celtic, but Sabonis has been trending like an All NBA player for several seasons. 

[LilRip]

Hmm… while I see the fit, I’m not sure if he’ll be happy here. Our offense will heavily revolve around the Jays and it’s not like either of them are Lebron.

I think if LM isn’t one of your best players, he would thrive under a high level playmaker (like Luka?) as opposed to our pair of two-way scoring machines. Smart, if he can rein it in, is actually a perfect role player. As is Horford. Both of them can defend, don’t need a lot of shots, can knock down open ones, and are high IQ enough to keep the ball moving and get it to the Jays.

Of course, I never really watched LM closely but I view him as more like a shooter/scorer who teammates need to find rather than a Horford who facilitates.

[gouki88]

I would've rather have kept our pick and grabbed Alperen Sengun.

Eh. He has no ability to play anywhere besides the 5, and would have struggled for the necessary minutes here. Wood is the ideal pairing for him in Houston with his perimeter game on offence

I love this kid he's going to be like Sabonis. You find room for him.

There's a big gap between one good Summer League game and the second best passing big man in the NBA. He's also got much less perimeter game than Sabonis, even as a young player. Sabonis also had a really unexpected developmental arc. I see him more as a Mason Plumlee type big with a Nurkic tier ceiling (pre-injury) than a perennial All-Star like Sabonis.

Sabonis has taken a fairly typical path improving every year with fairly big jumps between his 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd years.  That is what you'd expect, especially from a big man.

Please point to me all the posts of people predicting him to end up as a 20/12/7 guy after his rookie season.

There is a reason Indiana made him a big part of the Paul George trade.  Big men often take time to develop.  Jokic 10/7/2.5 in 22 mpg as a rookie.  John Collins 10.5/7.3 in 24 mpg as a rookie.  Capela played 12 games a rookie and even in year 2 was just a 7/6.5 guy in 17 mpg.  Nurkic, who you cited, 7/6 in 18 mpg as a rookie (pre-injury he was a 17.5/10.5 guy).  Gobert 2.3/2.3 in 9.6 mpg over 45 games as a rookie.  Even much lesser talented players like Steven Adams (3.3/4.1 in 17.8 mpg) or superstars like Anthony Davis (13.5/8 over 29 mpg) have bad rookie years statistically.  That doesn't mean all big men are awful as rookies.  Towns and Ayton were both very good.

Sure guys sometimes surprise with their peaks.  I mean no one saw Giannis coming, but it also is very common for young big men to make massive leaps in production after their 1st and 2nd years, which is exactly what Sabonis did.

The difference being Sabonis has made big leaps every single season. That's what makes him stand out. Even this past season his passing made a significant jump. Nobody is disputing that bigs take time. But nobody thought Sabonis would become this triple-double machine that he is now, and I don't think it's wise to try and peg Sengun as the next Sabonis before he's played a real NBA minute.

Sabonis has continued to improve through 5 seasons, which also is pretty common. That said, per 36 minutes, his 3rd year has been his best statistical season (outside of passing).  He had the highest per minute production from pretty much everywhere and that was by far is most efficient shooting season.  The advanced metrics favor that season as well including things like WS which have a minutes component to them.  He wasn't a starter nor playing starter minutes then, but was playing over half the game and producing at a pretty high rate.  His 4th year he became the starter, with starter minutes and stats, but Sabonis has been a pretty similar player the last 3 seasons (i.e. his 3rd, 4th, and 5th seasons). 

This just strikes me more like you weren't paying attention to Sabonis, which makes sense as he wasn't a Celtic, but Sabonis has been trending like an All NBA player for several seasons.

I literally have no idea why you even brought up his per-36 minute numbers from when he was the 6th man? It's as if you're actively seeking to insert your contrarian ways into a debate that never involved you.

More nonsense. Nobody projected Sabonis to be an All-NBA guy until 2019, and he is still yet to be an All-NBA guy.

[mobilija]

Would people really trade Smart for Markennan?

I get that Smart can be frustrating when he shoots us out of a game but.....do you really think Markennan impacts winning more than Smart?

[michigan adam]

I think a consolidation of guard depth/excess needs to be turned into a player at the PF or swing spot.  The now have Dennis, jaylen, Payton, carson, dunn. richardson, smart, and romeo...and even YAM.  it would be nice to turn 2 or 3 of these guys into a Markenen, nance, bagley or similar type player, even if a pick or two is needed.  Ideally it would be the dunn, romeo, parker, edwards for bagley type trade with no more than a 2nd rnd pick, but I'll leave the details to Brad. 

PG: DS, PP, MS
SG: JB, JR, MS
SF: JT, JB, AN
PF: MB, JT, AH
C: AH, RW, EK

That would be a solid 10 man rotation, With GW, AH, YAM, BF, plus room for 1 more for deep depth.

We have alot of deep depth guys at the moment, and missing a least one Swing/PF for the rotation IMHO.  Swing a trade like above for one more piece and we are a contender.

[Moranis]

I would've rather have kept our pick and grabbed Alperen Sengun.

Eh. He has no ability to play anywhere besides the 5, and would have struggled for the necessary minutes here. Wood is the ideal pairing for him in Houston with his perimeter game on offence

I love this kid he's going to be like Sabonis. You find room for him.

There's a big gap between one good Summer League game and the second best passing big man in the NBA. He's also got much less perimeter game than Sabonis, even as a young player. Sabonis also had a really unexpected developmental arc. I see him more as a Mason Plumlee type big with a Nurkic tier ceiling (pre-injury) than a perennial All-Star like Sabonis.

Sabonis has taken a fairly typical path improving every year with fairly big jumps between his 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd years.  That is what you'd expect, especially from a big man.

Please point to me all the posts of people predicting him to end up as a 20/12/7 guy after his rookie season.

There is a reason Indiana made him a big part of the Paul George trade.  Big men often take time to develop.  Jokic 10/7/2.5 in 22 mpg as a rookie.  John Collins 10.5/7.3 in 24 mpg as a rookie.  Capela played 12 games a rookie and even in year 2 was just a 7/6.5 guy in 17 mpg.  Nurkic, who you cited, 7/6 in 18 mpg as a rookie (pre-injury he was a 17.5/10.5 guy).  Gobert 2.3/2.3 in 9.6 mpg over 45 games as a rookie.  Even much lesser talented players like Steven Adams (3.3/4.1 in 17.8 mpg) or superstars like Anthony Davis (13.5/8 over 29 mpg) have bad rookie years statistically.  That doesn't mean all big men are awful as rookies.  Towns and Ayton were both very good.

Sure guys sometimes surprise with their peaks.  I mean no one saw Giannis coming, but it also is very common for young big men to make massive leaps in production after their 1st and 2nd years, which is exactly what Sabonis did.

The difference being Sabonis has made big leaps every single season. That's what makes him stand out. Even this past season his passing made a significant jump. Nobody is disputing that bigs take time. But nobody thought Sabonis would become this triple-double machine that he is now, and I don't think it's wise to try and peg Sengun as the next Sabonis before he's played a real NBA minute.

Sabonis has continued to improve through 5 seasons, which also is pretty common. That said, per 36 minutes, his 3rd year has been his best statistical season (outside of passing).  He had the highest per minute production from pretty much everywhere and that was by far is most efficient shooting season.  The advanced metrics favor that season as well including things like WS which have a minutes component to them.  He wasn't a starter nor playing starter minutes then, but was playing over half the game and producing at a pretty high rate.  His 4th year he became the starter, with starter minutes and stats, but Sabonis has been a pretty similar player the last 3 seasons (i.e. his 3rd, 4th, and 5th seasons). 

This just strikes me more like you weren't paying attention to Sabonis, which makes sense as he wasn't a Celtic, but Sabonis has been trending like an All NBA player for several seasons.

I literally have no idea why you even brought up his per-36 minute numbers from when he was the 6th man? It's as if you're actively seeking to insert your contrarian ways into a debate that never involved you.

More nonsense. Nobody projected Sabonis to be an All-NBA guy until 2019, and he is still yet to be an All-NBA guy.

His per minute production is absolutely relevant to a discussion about a players career progression.  People have been doing that with Rob Williams for years on this board.  If Williams stays healthy and plays 34 mpg and still has similar on court production, is anyone on here going to be claiming he had unprecedented or unexpected growth.  Of course not, because he has shown the ability, he just needed the health to get the minutes.  That is Sabonis (not the health, but the role/minutes).  He produced at a very similar level when he was the 6th man in his 3rd year as he did this past year as a starter in his 5th year (aside from his passing which has improved).  He didn't take huge leaps every year from year 3 to 4 or year 4 to 5, you just weren't paying attention because he wasn't a Celtic. 

[Bostonborn62]

I would keep Dunn and trade Smart for LM in a heartbeat.

[michigan adam]

The biggest problem with LM is it would be a S&T and hard cap the C's. I like the idea of him for sure though.

[Birdman]

I say Chicago would take Smart in a sign & trade

[Moranis]

I say Chicago would take Smart in a sign & trade

I'm sure they would, I'd probably make them take Edwards as well just for some more salary relief and to get further away from the hard cap line.

Smart + Edwards for Markkanen (4 yrs, 60 million)

That seems like a good trade for both teams and is in the right range of money for Markkanen

[Tr1boy]

I say Chicago would take Smart in a sign & trade

This would be ideal

Horford
LM
Tatum
Brown
Schroder

Could be dangerous

[Vermont Green]

I say Chicago would take Smart in a sign & trade

I'm sure they would, I'd probably make them take Edwards as well just for some more salary relief and to get further away from the hard cap line.

Smart + Edwards for Markkanen (4 yrs, 60 million)

That seems like a good trade for both teams and is in the right range of money for Markkanen

I am not so sure that Chicago would take that.  This is their current roster status:

PG:  Ball, White, Dotson
SG:  Levine, Caruso, Green

They also have DeRozan who is a SG/SF combo who is in the mix.

Why would they take on what, $16M more salary at the PG/SG/Combo position?  Neither Smart or Edwards has any fit with their current roster.  Smart is good value back for Markkanen but there is just no fit.  Gotta find a 3rd team for Smart or something I think.

What CHI really wants is a team with a TPE so they can take back a first round pick (or so it seems based on reports).  We are not that team.  That is why I am starting to think CHI is just going to wait to see if he takes the QO.  Seems like that would be toxic in terms of chemistry or whatever but probably better than taking back a lot of salary in players they don't really need.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I say Chicago would take Smart in a sign & trade

I'm sure they would, I'd probably make them take Edwards as well just for some more salary relief and to get further away from the hard cap line.

Smart + Edwards for Markkanen (4 yrs, 60 million)

That seems like a good trade for both teams and is in the right range of money for Markkanen

I am not so sure that Chicago would take that.  This is their current roster status:

PG:  Ball, White, Dotson
SG:  Levine, Caruso, Green

They also have DeRozan who is a SG/SF combo who is in the mix.

Why would they take on what, $16M more salary at the PG/SG/Combo position?  Neither Smart or Edwards has any fit with their current roster.  Smart is good value back for Markkanen but there is just no fit.  Gotta find a 3rd team for Smart or something I think.

What CHI really wants is a team with a TPE so they can take back a first round pick (or so it seems based on reports).  We are not that team.  That is why I am starting to think CHI is just going to wait to see if he takes the QO.  Seems like that would be toxic in terms of chemistry or whatever but probably better than taking back a lot of salary in players they don't really need.

What if we swung Smart out west to a team like the Warriors or Pelicans, and they have an asset to the Bulls to balance out their roster?