Celtics need to target Bryn Forbes

[Celtics2021]

Another nobody. Nice.  Sounds like a standard Celtics offseason.

If being 4th in 3% last year is a nobody to you, then you probably should pay a little more attention.

6'2" shooting guard who's 28 years old, has never averaged 12 PPG or 3 APG, shot under 43% FG most of his career, one of the lowest free throw rates I've ever seen in my life.  Could be wrong but I'm guessing he's probably nothing special defensively.

The guy had one single season shooting 45% - prior to that he hovered around 39% - 42% which is good.  But I don't generally get excited about one dimensional role players, and it seems like shooting is about the only thing he's any good for.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though if there is more to the guy then what I'm seeing though.

3-point shooting is absolutely what he’s best at.  No question about it.  In his four seasons in an NBA rotation, he’s finished top 10 twice.  Again, he’s 9th amongst active players in 3%.  That’s not just very good.  That’s elite, and if teams lose him on the floor, they’ll pay.  He’s one of the best bench shooters in the game, and his presence stresses defenses as he runs around the perimeter, creating easier opportunities for his teammates due to his off-ball movement.

People are worried (rightly) about our shooting.  One of the best shooters in the game is available.  We should get him.

Yes, I understand he can shoot.  That's not my concern.  My concern is what else can he offer?

If he's having a bad shooting night and the shots aren't falling, is there ANYTHING else at all the that he can actually do?

Or more importantly, what liabilities does that shooting potentially bring with it?

I don't care if he's the best shooter in the world if the guy's defense is so bad that mediocre offensive players are going to be scoring 25 on us when he's on the court.

I guess on paper his turnover rate is reasonably low?  But surely there's got to be something else has not terrible at right?

Nope.  Shooting is all he does.  But we’re low on it, especially from the guard position, and he’d balance that out nicely.  Although if he’s not shooting he still commands attention from the defense, because he can start shooting any minute.

I get your concern about his secondary skills, and they’re valid.  I’m not gong to pretend he’s a good defender, but between Smart, Richardson, Jaylen, Langford, and maybe Dunn all on the roster, you can cover for his defense better by parking him on a low-usage wing and letting those guys take care of the better players.  Given how this roster is constructed, he’d be a good fit.  On other rosters, less so.

[Muzzy66]

Another nobody. Nice.  Sounds like a standard Celtics offseason.

If being 4th in 3% last year is a nobody to you, then you probably should pay a little more attention.

6'2" shooting guard who's 28 years old, has never averaged 12 PPG or 3 APG, shot under 43% FG most of his career, one of the lowest free throw rates I've ever seen in my life.  Could be wrong but I'm guessing he's probably nothing special defensively.

A guy had one single season shooting 45% - prior to that had hovered around 39% - 42% which is good, but as far as I can tell three point shooting seems to be about the only thing he's good for.  At least it looks that way on paper.  I don't get excited about one dimensional role players generally.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though if there is more to the guy then what I'm seeing

Say you've never watched him play without explicitly saying you've never watched him play

No, I openly admit that I've never seen him play, that's why I said I'm open to being convinced otherwise if there's more to him then I'm seeing.

But on paper I don't see anything even remotely exciting.

He's an MLE-level guy. We were never in the game for any big earners in free agency (besides Fournier). He'd give us elite shooting - which we desperately need - and he's durable. That's worth a lot

But does he do ANYTHING else at all?

What's his defense like?  Is he a liability on that end or is he at least average?

If he can defend passably and shoot I'm ok with that, but if he's a defensive liability who can't pass, doesn't draw fouls and literally does nothing but stand around shooting jumpers then sorry, but I'm not thrilled.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong there could be worse things. But after how bad Brad has handled things so far I need more then a  poor man's Eddie House to get me excited.

His defence is mediocre, but we've beefed up our defence a lot by turning Kemba and Fournier into Horford and Richardson (in a roundabout way). I think having a JJ Redick level shooter off the bench is something we should clamour for. Smart is a ... erratic shooter, Richardson is bang average, getting a top-10 shooter would shore up some weaknesses.

I have no worries about our defence with this group. I do have worries about our shooting.

Forbes would be perfect in Boston. He is an elite volume shooter and is also now an NBA champion.

We need a volume shooter that can knock down threes like this. The complaints about, “can he do N E Thing else?!?!” Are absurd. So what if he can’t? He fills a need and isn’t costly.

Being unimpressed by a guy who is totally useless any time he isn't taking a jump shot is hardly absurd.

Tatum and Brown are both excellent shooters, yet having then chuck up threes all day every day was hardly beneficial.

Bringing in a guy who does nothing but that is not what I would see as a great thing.  But each to their own, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

Edit:
I should note that we do have Tatum (39% 3PT), Jaylen Brown (40%% 3PT), Al Horford (37%% 3PT), Aaron Nesmith (37% 3PT) and Payton Pritchard (41% 3PT), Grant Williams (37% 3PT) all currently on the roster for next season.  That's about 50% of the active roster who shot 37% of higher from three last season.

I wouldn't say our roster is exactly desperate for shooting. I'd love to add more QUALITY players who can shoot no question about it, bit we aren't so lacking to the point where we need to waste the limited cap space we have available bringing in his who can do nothing but shoot threes.

[Ogaju]

Another nobody. Nice.  Sounds like a standard Celtics offseason.

If being 4th in 3% last year is a nobody to you, then you probably should pay a little more attention.

6'2" shooting guard who's 28 years old, has never averaged 12 PPG or 3 APG, shot under 43% FG most of his career, one of the lowest free throw rates I've ever seen in my life.  Could be wrong but I'm guessing he's probably nothing special defensively.

The guy had one single season shooting 45% - prior to that he hovered around 39% - 42% which is good.  But I don't generally get excited about one dimensional role players, and it seems like shooting is about the only thing he's any good for.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though if there is more to the guy then what I'm seeing though.

3-point shooting is absolutely what he’s best at.  No question about it.  In his four seasons in an NBA rotation, he’s finished top 10 twice.  Again, he’s 9th amongst active players in 3%.  That’s not just very good.  That’s elite, and if teams lose him on the floor, they’ll pay.  He’s one of the best bench shooters in the game, and his presence stresses defenses as he runs around the perimeter, creating easier opportunities for his teammates due to his off-ball movement.

People are worried (rightly) about our shooting.  One of the best shooters in the game is available.  We should get him.

If he is that good, how the heck do you think the Cs can get him?

[gouki88]

Another nobody. Nice.  Sounds like a standard Celtics offseason.

If being 4th in 3% last year is a nobody to you, then you probably should pay a little more attention.

6'2" shooting guard who's 28 years old, has never averaged 12 PPG or 3 APG, shot under 43% FG most of his career, one of the lowest free throw rates I've ever seen in my life.  Could be wrong but I'm guessing he's probably nothing special defensively.

A guy had one single season shooting 45% - prior to that had hovered around 39% - 42% which is good, but as far as I can tell three point shooting seems to be about the only thing he's good for.  At least it looks that way on paper.  I don't get excited about one dimensional role players generally.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though if there is more to the guy then what I'm seeing

Say you've never watched him play without explicitly saying you've never watched him play

No, I openly admit that I've never seen him play, that's why I said I'm open to being convinced otherwise if there's more to him then I'm seeing.

But on paper I don't see anything even remotely exciting.

He's an MLE-level guy. We were never in the game for any big earners in free agency (besides Fournier). He'd give us elite shooting - which we desperately need - and he's durable. That's worth a lot

But does he do ANYTHING else at all?

What's his defense like?  Is he a liability on that end or is he at least average?

If he can defend passably and shoot I'm ok with that, but if he's a defensive liability who can't pass, doesn't draw fouls and literally does nothing but stand around shooting jumpers then sorry, but I'm not thrilled.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong there could be worse things. But after how bad Brad has handled things so far I need more then a  poor man's Eddie House to get me excited.

His defence is mediocre, but we've beefed up our defence a lot by turning Kemba and Fournier into Horford and Richardson (in a roundabout way). I think having a JJ Redick level shooter off the bench is something we should clamour for. Smart is a ... erratic shooter, Richardson is bang average, getting a top-10 shooter would shore up some weaknesses.

I have no worries about our defence with this group. I do have worries about our shooting.

Forbes would be perfect in Boston. He is an elite volume shooter and is also now an NBA champion.

We need a volume shooter that can knock down threes like this. The complaints about, “can he do N E Thing else?!?!” Are absurd. So what if he can’t? He fills a need and isn’t costly.

Being unimpressed by a guy who is totally useless any time he isn't taking a jump shot is hardly absurd.

Tatum and Brown are both excellent shooters, yet having then chuck up threes all day every day was hardly beneficial.

Bringing in a guy who does nothing but that is not what I would see as a great thing.  But each to their own, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

Edit:
I should note that we do have Tatum (39% 3PT), Jaylen Brown (40%% 3PT), Al Horford (37%% 3PT), Aaron Nesmith (37% 3PT) and Payton Pritchard (41% 3PT), Grant Williams (37% 3PT) all currently on the roster for next season.  That's about 50% of the active roster who shot 37% of higher from three last season.

I wouldn't say our roster is exactly desperate for shooting. I'd love to add more QUALITY players who can shoot no question about it, bit we aren't so lacking to the point where we need to waste the limited cap space we have available bringing in his who can do nothing but shoot threes.

That’s just ignorance. If you think shooters are only valuable when they’re actually shooting… well then I’m not sure what else to say. A lack of spacing allows for defences to dictate things a lot more. I’ll leave it at that

[Jvalin]

He couldn't crack the Bucks rotation in the Finals despite the injury of DDV, cause he gets killed on defense. He's a SG in a PG's body. Wouldn't call him an elite shooter either. His 3P% skyrocketed last season, but he was getting tons of open looks alongside Giannis. He shot 77% from the FT line last season. His career avarage from the FT line is 79.5%. That's nothing special for someone who's supposed to be an elite shooter. Wouldn't be excited if we use our MLE on him.

[gouki88]

He couldn't crack the Bucks rotation in the Finals despite the injury of DDV, cause he gets killed on defense. He's a SG in a PG's body. Wouldn't call him an elite shooter either. His 3P% skyrocketed last season, but he was getting tons of open looks alongside Giannis. He shot 77% from the FT line last season. His career avarage from the FT line is 79.5%. That's nothing special for someone who's supposed to be an elite shooter. Wouldn't be excited if we use our MLE on him.

His average over the prior three seasons before joining Giannis was 40.4% on 4.5 attempts a game. This is a pretty weird take. He's as elite a 3 point shooter as there is that could be had for less than $10m a season. Not sure why you're trying to discredit him as a shooter because of his FT% (which has been 83.4% over the last three seasons), given how irrelevant it is due to his super low number of free throw attempts. He basically attempts 5 three pointers for every FT he shoots - you tell me which one is more important.

He was taken advantage of in the Finals, but he's shown his worth in prior series (against Miami and Denver). I'd also back our ability in to hide him.

[Muzzy66]

Another nobody. Nice.  Sounds like a standard Celtics offseason.

If being 4th in 3% last year is a nobody to you, then you probably should pay a little more attention.

6'2" shooting guard who's 28 years old, has never averaged 12 PPG or 3 APG, shot under 43% FG most of his career, one of the lowest free throw rates I've ever seen in my life.  Could be wrong but I'm guessing he's probably nothing special defensively.

A guy had one single season shooting 45% - prior to that had hovered around 39% - 42% which is good, but as far as I can tell three point shooting seems to be about the only thing he's good for.  At least it looks that way on paper.  I don't get excited about one dimensional role players generally.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though if there is more to the guy then what I'm seeing

Say you've never watched him play without explicitly saying you've never watched him play

No, I openly admit that I've never seen him play, that's why I said I'm open to being convinced otherwise if there's more to him then I'm seeing.

But on paper I don't see anything even remotely exciting.

He's an MLE-level guy. We were never in the game for any big earners in free agency (besides Fournier). He'd give us elite shooting - which we desperately need - and he's durable. That's worth a lot

But does he do ANYTHING else at all?

What's his defense like?  Is he a liability on that end or is he at least average?

If he can defend passably and shoot I'm ok with that, but if he's a defensive liability who can't pass, doesn't draw fouls and literally does nothing but stand around shooting jumpers then sorry, but I'm not thrilled.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong there could be worse things. But after how bad Brad has handled things so far I need more then a  poor man's Eddie House to get me excited.

His defence is mediocre, but we've beefed up our defence a lot by turning Kemba and Fournier into Horford and Richardson (in a roundabout way). I think having a JJ Redick level shooter off the bench is something we should clamour for. Smart is a ... erratic shooter, Richardson is bang average, getting a top-10 shooter would shore up some weaknesses.

I have no worries about our defence with this group. I do have worries about our shooting.

Forbes would be perfect in Boston. He is an elite volume shooter and is also now an NBA champion.

We need a volume shooter that can knock down threes like this. The complaints about, “can he do N E Thing else?!?!” Are absurd. So what if he can’t? He fills a need and isn’t costly.

Being unimpressed by a guy who is totally useless any time he isn't taking a jump shot is hardly absurd.

Tatum and Brown are both excellent shooters, yet having then chuck up threes all day every day was hardly beneficial.

Bringing in a guy who does nothing but that is not what I would see as a great thing.  But each to their own, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

Edit:
I should note that we do have Tatum (39% 3PT), Jaylen Brown (40%% 3PT), Al Horford (37%% 3PT), Aaron Nesmith (37% 3PT) and Payton Pritchard (41% 3PT), Grant Williams (37% 3PT) all currently on the roster for next season.  That's about 50% of the active roster who shot 37% of higher from three last season.

I wouldn't say our roster is exactly desperate for shooting. I'd love to add more QUALITY players who can shoot no question about it, bit we aren't so lacking to the point where we need to waste the limited cap space we have available bringing in his who can do nothing but shoot threes.

That’s just ignorance. If you think shooters are only valuable when they’re actually shooting… well then I’m not sure what else to say. A lack of spacing allows for defences to dictate things a lot more. I’ll leave it at that

Ok fair point, they do have the ability to have an impact when not shooting - but that doesn't take away from the negative impact that can also come on the other end from terrible defensive players.  Are we already forgetting how much it hurt us at times last season when we had Kemba on the court defensively?  Kemba - even with one busted knee - is still far more impactful offensively then this guy will ever be, with and without the ball in his hands.  Teams focussed entire defensive gameplans on Kemba at times, that's how much attention he drew, and we still struggled to hide him defensively even when we had Smart, Brown, Tatum and Rob Wiliams on the court.     

Lets look at Eddie House in 2008 as an example  That team won the title primarily because of the sheer talent of Pierce, Ray and KG as well as timely contributions from the role players - but if tere was any one thing that the team struggled with (that at times seemed it could have cost them the title) it was the PG spot.  The team struggled with Rondo at times because the opponents begged him to shoot and he couldn't make them pay.  Then they would put Eddie House in and the team would struggle again because he hurt the team so much defensiively.  He somewhat compensated for that when he was hot, but when he wasn't he was killing the team.  Often they had to fall back to steady elder Sam Cassell to get by.

This guy (at least on paper) seems like a near perfect clone of Eddie House.  Volume shooter who's only real strength is being deadly from three.  When he's hot thats the type of guy who can win you a game, but when he's cold he can bury the team very quickly.  House was known throughout his career for being that type of guy.  He was also known for beign a major liability on the defensive end.

People here are talking about this guy as if he is Steph Curry or Kyle Korver in their primes - like his 45% shooting last season is representative of his entire career. It isn't.  If you ignore last season he's averaged dead on 40% from three for his career before that.  I would call 40% from three a very-good-to-excellent three point shooter.  I wouldn't call it elite.  Tatum is 39.6% for his career, and I would not call him an elite shooter.   

One fluke season can blow numbers out of proporstion in a significant way.  How do we know last season wasn't just a fluke? Historically speaking guys who are elite shooters usually have extremely high free throw percentages as well.  Forbes has shot just under 80% from the line for his career which again is nice, but hardly reflective of an "elite" shooter.  And as for the sample size argument - he's taken 307 free throws so far in his career, more then enough to get a decent career percentage. 

My issue is that this team right now has very little in the way of resources that can use to add talent to the roster.  We have the MLE (possible the full MLE depending on what moves come next) and we can maybe use a trade exception or two.  We can probably only add at most maybe 2 meaningul players to the roster, and we still need to try to make up for the loss of TT, Moses, and Fournier.  I'm not confident that Richardson and Forbes combined even makes up for Fournier. 

I'd like to see the limited resources we have get used on guys who can really come in and make a major impact on the team.  A guy like Patty Mills or Rudy G@y are also quality 3PT shooters (both around 38% last season) who can still stretch the floor effectively, but they can still find ways to score / impact the game when their jumpers are not falling.  I would MUCH rather have guys like that rather then a guy like Forbes who is a one-trick pony. 

This is especially true considering we already have Nesmith and Pritchard on our roster - two young guards who exceptionally good shooters in college (and very good in their first NBA season as well), who may well be as good as Forbes as shooters by the time we reach the all-star break.

If we could get him for a vet min then I say sure, go for it.  But if were talking about wasting a MLE or a valuable trade exception for this guy?  I say no way in hell.   

 

[Jvalin]

He couldn't crack the Bucks rotation in the Finals despite the injury of DDV, cause he gets killed on defense. He's a SG in a PG's body. Wouldn't call him an elite shooter either. His 3P% skyrocketed last season, but he was getting tons of open looks alongside Giannis. He shot 77% from the FT line last season. His career avarage from the FT line is 79.5%. That's nothing special for someone who's supposed to be an elite shooter. Wouldn't be excited if we use our MLE on him.

His average over the prior three seasons before joining Giannis was 40.4% on 4.5 attempts a game. This is a pretty weird take. He's as elite a 3 point shooter as there is that could be had for less than $10m a season. Not sure why you're trying to discredit him as a shooter because of his FT% (which has been 83.4% over the last three seasons), given how irrelevant it is due to his super low number of free throw attempts. He basically attempts 5 three pointers for every FT he shoots - you tell me which one is more important.

He was taken advantage of in the Finals, but he's shown his worth in prior series (against Miami and Denver). I'd also back our ability in to hide him.

I guess we have different standards on what constitutes an elite shooter. Imo, elite shooters are guys like Steph, Seth, Klay, Duncan Robinson, Buddy Hield, Joe Harris, etc. Wouldn't put Forbes on that list based on 1 season alongside Giannis. Likewise, I won't call Portis an elite shooter either in spite of his jaw-dropping 3P% last season. Plenty of players have seen their 3P% skyrocket when playing next to Giannis.

Brogdon was a 50-40-90 guy alongside Giannis. He plummeted to 32.6% from 3 when he joined the Pacers.  Jrue is a 35.8% 3pt shooter for his career. He was shooting 39.2% from 3 last season next to Giannis. Portis is a 38% career 3pt shooter, yet he was shooting 47.1% (!) from 3 last season. Forbes seemed like the next Steph Curry shooting 45.2% from 3 whereas his career average is 41.2%. There are plenty of examples like these. Let's call it the Giannis effect.

FT% is usually indicative of shooting ability. This is why I'm mentioning it. Truly elite shooters are elite at all kinds of shots, including FTs.

Fwiw, the C's have an elite shooter in Sam Hauser. We signed him to a 2-way contract a few days ago.

[Muzzy66]

I guess we have different standards on what constitutes an elite shooter. Imo, elite shooters are guys like Steph, Seth, Klay, Duncan Robinson, Buddy Hield, Joe Harris, KD, etc. Wouldn't put Forbes on that list based on 1 season alongside Giannis. Likewise, I won't call Portis an elite shooter either in spite of his jaw-dropping 3P% last season. Plenty of players have seen their 3P% skyrocket when playing next to Giannis.

I agree with you on this.  Your idea of an 'elite' shooter is consistent with mine.  Guys like prime Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, Steve Kerr, Seth Curry, Klay Thompson,. Steph Kurry, etc. 

I'm not even sure I would put KD or Hield on that list - I consider them excellent shooters, but not elite.

People talk about Forbers being 9th among active players for career 3PT%, but if you take away last season's (IMHO fluke) results he drops down to 16th, which puts him in the general area of guys like Otto Porter (14th), CJ McCollum (16th), Tony Snell (17th) and Jayson Tatum (19th).  I wouldn't think of any of those other guys as elite shooters. 

Each to their own though I suppose!

[Jvalin]

I guess we have different standards on what constitutes an elite shooter. Imo, elite shooters are guys like Steph, Seth, Klay, Duncan Robinson, Buddy Hield, Joe Harris, KD, etc. Wouldn't put Forbes on that list based on 1 season alongside Giannis. Likewise, I won't call Portis an elite shooter either in spite of his jaw-dropping 3P% last season. Plenty of players have seen their 3P% skyrocket when playing next to Giannis.

I agree with you on this.  Your idea of an 'elite' shooter is consistent with mine.  Guys like prime Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, Steve Kerr, Seth Curry, Klay Thompson,. Steph Kurry, etc. 

I'm not even sure I would put KD or Hield on that list - I consider them excellent shooters, but not elite.

People talk about Forbers being 9th among active players for career 3PT%, but if you take away last season's (IMHO fluke) results he drops down to 16th, which puts him in the general area of guys like Otto Porter (14th), CJ McCollum (16th), Tony Snell (17th) and Jayson Tatum (19th).  I wouldn't think of any of those other guys as elite shooters. 

Each to their own though I suppose!

KD is taking tons of wild shots every night. Nobody can contest them cause he's a freak of nature, but they are still wild shots. Likewise, Hield is a flamethrower from 3 shooting north of 10 threes per game! Some of these shots are off the dribble. If they were just playing away from the ball attempting open 3s, I bet their 3P% would have been north of 40% every single season. 

[gouki88]

He couldn't crack the Bucks rotation in the Finals despite the injury of DDV, cause he gets killed on defense. He's a SG in a PG's body. Wouldn't call him an elite shooter either. His 3P% skyrocketed last season, but he was getting tons of open looks alongside Giannis. He shot 77% from the FT line last season. His career avarage from the FT line is 79.5%. That's nothing special for someone who's supposed to be an elite shooter. Wouldn't be excited if we use our MLE on him.

His average over the prior three seasons before joining Giannis was 40.4% on 4.5 attempts a game. This is a pretty weird take. He's as elite a 3 point shooter as there is that could be had for less than $10m a season. Not sure why you're trying to discredit him as a shooter because of his FT% (which has been 83.4% over the last three seasons), given how irrelevant it is due to his super low number of free throw attempts. He basically attempts 5 three pointers for every FT he shoots - you tell me which one is more important.

He was taken advantage of in the Finals, but he's shown his worth in prior series (against Miami and Denver). I'd also back our ability in to hide him.

I guess we have different standards on what constitutes an elite shooter. Imo, elite shooters are guys like Steph, Seth, Klay, Duncan Robinson, Buddy Hield, Joe Harris, etc. Wouldn't put Forbes on that list based on 1 season alongside Giannis. Likewise, I won't call Portis an elite shooter either in spite of his jaw-dropping 3P% last season. Plenty of players have seen their 3P% skyrocket when playing next to Giannis.

Brogdon was a 50-40-90 guy alongside Giannis. He plummeted to 32.6% from 3 when he joined the Pacers.  Jrue is a 35.8% 3pt shooter for his career. He was shooting 39.2% from 3 last season next to Giannis. Portis is a 38% career 3pt shooter, yet he was shooting 47.1% (!) from 3 last season. Forbes seemed like the next Steph Curry shooting 45.2% from 3 whereas his career average is 41.2%. There are plenty of examples like these. Let's call it the Giannis effect.

FT% is usually indicative of shooting ability. This is why I'm mentioning it. Truly elite shooters are elite at all kinds of shots, including FTs.

Fwiw, the C's have an elite shooter in Sam Hauser. We signed him to a 2-way contract a few days ago.

The other guys you mention aren't near the level of Forbes though, I'm not sure where the confusion lies. He was 4% better than his career average alongside Giannis, for sure. But if he retired tomorrow Forbes would be 21st all time for career 3PT percentage. Higher than Ray Allen, Buddy Hield, Chris MullinBertans, Hornacek, Danny Green, and Dell Curry, to name a few.

How is that not elite?? I know we signed Hauser (I secretly hope he's Ryan Andersen 2.0), but we can't rely upon him for anything really. Maybe he's epic, but at the moment he's a 2-way guy.

[Jvalin]

He couldn't crack the Bucks rotation in the Finals despite the injury of DDV, cause he gets killed on defense. He's a SG in a PG's body. Wouldn't call him an elite shooter either. His 3P% skyrocketed last season, but he was getting tons of open looks alongside Giannis. He shot 77% from the FT line last season. His career avarage from the FT line is 79.5%. That's nothing special for someone who's supposed to be an elite shooter. Wouldn't be excited if we use our MLE on him.

His average over the prior three seasons before joining Giannis was 40.4% on 4.5 attempts a game. This is a pretty weird take. He's as elite a 3 point shooter as there is that could be had for less than $10m a season. Not sure why you're trying to discredit him as a shooter because of his FT% (which has been 83.4% over the last three seasons), given how irrelevant it is due to his super low number of free throw attempts. He basically attempts 5 three pointers for every FT he shoots - you tell me which one is more important.

He was taken advantage of in the Finals, but he's shown his worth in prior series (against Miami and Denver). I'd also back our ability in to hide him.

I guess we have different standards on what constitutes an elite shooter. Imo, elite shooters are guys like Steph, Seth, Klay, Duncan Robinson, Buddy Hield, Joe Harris, etc. Wouldn't put Forbes on that list based on 1 season alongside Giannis. Likewise, I won't call Portis an elite shooter either in spite of his jaw-dropping 3P% last season. Plenty of players have seen their 3P% skyrocket when playing next to Giannis.

Brogdon was a 50-40-90 guy alongside Giannis. He plummeted to 32.6% from 3 when he joined the Pacers.  Jrue is a 35.8% 3pt shooter for his career. He was shooting 39.2% from 3 last season next to Giannis. Portis is a 38% career 3pt shooter, yet he was shooting 47.1% (!) from 3 last season. Forbes seemed like the next Steph Curry shooting 45.2% from 3 whereas his career average is 41.2%. There are plenty of examples like these. Let's call it the Giannis effect.

FT% is usually indicative of shooting ability. This is why I'm mentioning it. Truly elite shooters are elite at all kinds of shots, including FTs.

Fwiw, the C's have an elite shooter in Sam Hauser. We signed him to a 2-way contract a few days ago.

The other guys you mention aren't near the level of Forbes though, I'm not sure where the confusion lies. He was 4% better than his career average alongside Giannis, for sure. But if he retired tomorrow Forbes would be 21st all time for career 3PT percentage. Higher than Ray Allen, Buddy Hield, Chris MullinBertans, Hornacek, Danny Green, and Dell Curry, to name a few.

How is that not elite?? I know we signed Hauser (I secretly hope he's Ryan Andersen 2.0), but we can't rely upon him for anything really. Maybe he's epic, but at the moment he's a 2-way guy.

I just can't call a guy an elite shooter when he's a below 80% career FT shooter. He's also playing primarily off the ball, which means he's mostly attempting open catch-and-shoot 3s. Raw 3P% doesn't always tell the full story. Check out these numbers.

Catch-and-shoot 3s: 1.9-4.1 (46.3%)
Pull-up 3s: 0.3-0.8 (39.6%)

Don't get me wrong, he's obviously a great shooter. My point is, his overall 3P% last season was boosted by the fact that he was shooting plenty of wide open 3s. Assuming he leaves the Bucks, chances are his 3P% ain't sustainable. I'd expect him to revert to his numbers while playing for the Spurs. Btw, I bet Semi will average a career high in 3P% next season playing next to Giannis (quite possibly even north of 40%).

[Roy H.]

Sorry, nope.  Hurts our “flexibility”.