Dame Lillard to demand trade shortly per Henry Abbott of True Hoop

[gouki88]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

[LilRip]

Regardless of how the season went, I believe the C’s are better than what we saw but I still think they’re in the secondary tier of teams in the East.

1st Tier: Nets, Bucks, Sixers (in that order)
2nd Tier: Celtics, Hawks, Heat (no particular order)
3rd Tier: Knicks (I don’t believe in them), Pacers, Wiz, Hornets, Raps (this might be a legacy/respect vote)
4th Tier: Magic, Bulls, Cavs, Pistons

To enter that 1st tier, Tatum needs to turn into an MVP candidate to overtake the Sixers imo but even then, I can’t imagine knocking off the Bucks or Nets, unless health significantly favors us. This leads me to think that if Dame is available, I hope PBS looks into it. Dame is a legitimate all-NBA level talent who is a fringe MVP candidate.

To land him though, I imagine the conversation starts with Brown, which is why it’s far from a no-brainer. It’s definitely a franchise-altering deal. That said, I’d likely do it. Lillard-Tatum seems like a team that ring chasing vets would hop onto.

[Ogaju]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

[gouki88]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

[Ogaju]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

[gouki88]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

We had very little talent available at once. Those are different things.

[Moranis]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

We had very little talent available at once. Those are different things.

That is true, but the C's talent is also pretty clearly below the top tier teams.  For as good as Tatum is, he isn't a top 10 player and the 3 best teams in the East all have at least 1 top 10 player (and the Bucks and Nets have a top 5 player and Nets arguably have 2). 

The C's elevating into that tier absolutely depends on if Tatum takes a leap up into that category of player, and if he does Brown probably also needs to get up into the top 20 or so instead of the top 30 or so that he is.  If Tatum and Brown are basically the same, then Boston needs to add probably 2 more players that are in Brown's general range for Boston to be a darkhorse contender. 

And that is the fundamental problem with the C's.  Their talent just isn't good enough at the top or throughout the roster. 

[td450]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

We had very little talent available at once. Those are different things.

That is true, but the C's talent is also pretty clearly below the top tier teams.  For as good as Tatum is, he isn't a top 10 player and the 3 best teams in the East all have at least 1 top 10 player (and the Bucks and Nets have a top 5 player and Nets arguably have 2). 

The C's elevating into that tier absolutely depends on if Tatum takes a leap up into that category of player, and if he does Brown probably also needs to get up into the top 20 or so instead of the top 30 or so that he is.  If Tatum and Brown are basically the same, then Boston needs to add probably 2 more players that are in Brown's general range for Boston to be a darkhorse contender. 

And that is the fundamental problem with the C's.  Their talent just isn't good enough at the top or throughout the roster.

At the moment, the Phoenix Suns are in the finals. It looks like they may lose, but its also pretty clear that they could very well have taken this if just a few plays had broken their way.

Devin Booker is not a top 10 player. Chris Paul is super valuable, but not a top 10 player. Ayton is not a top 30 player, although he looks like he will be soon. Yet Devin Booker is standing toe to toe with the world's best player.

Is it conceivable with a couple of breaks that the C's could beat either of these two teams next year in a 7 game series? Could Jaylen Brown beat up Milwaukee in a 7 game series, or Philly? Yes, he could.

Toronto won a title recently too, and I will note that Kawhi Leonard was the only elite player on that squad, and you recently pointed out that he didn't close out a number of playoff games with the reliability you might have expected of him. That means they could have been beaten too.

The league is in a weird place. There are a lot of guys with serious firepower at the moment. There are not any truly dominant players. like LeBron in his prime, who could be relied on to significantly outperform a Tatum or a Brown over 7 games. There are guys that have been somewhat more impressive over time than Tatum and Brown, but there isn't anyone who you could rely on to outplay those two in a series, with the possible exception of Kevin Durant.

So, let's see what happens. Tatum and Brown might very well not get over the top, but they could. They have serious two way talent, and they don't shrink against better players. They have amassed serious playoff experience. We need some breaks, but we can compete as soon as next year.

[tstorey_97]

I suggest the Celtics, in the east, are "going the right way".

Brown and Tatum need a point guard and a power forward.

PG
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Robert

Smart
Thompson
Parker

Plus whomever they get for a vet to make the playoff rotation.

Plus assorted young guys.

Not going to judge this team based on last year....36-36
Not going to judge the team based on the year before...48-24

Brown and Tatum improve each year and if management actually gives them a team and a bench and a new coach then they will be back in the ECF.

Mgt seems to attempting the above, and how are Philly, Hawks, Bucks and the Nets going to be "better"? They all have injuries and ups and downs like the Celtics do.

The Celtics will be better and the Nets have one more year before they gaak. The timing is right

[Moranis]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

We had very little talent available at once. Those are different things.

That is true, but the C's talent is also pretty clearly below the top tier teams.  For as good as Tatum is, he isn't a top 10 player and the 3 best teams in the East all have at least 1 top 10 player (and the Bucks and Nets have a top 5 player and Nets arguably have 2). 

The C's elevating into that tier absolutely depends on if Tatum takes a leap up into that category of player, and if he does Brown probably also needs to get up into the top 20 or so instead of the top 30 or so that he is.  If Tatum and Brown are basically the same, then Boston needs to add probably 2 more players that are in Brown's general range for Boston to be a darkhorse contender. 

And that is the fundamental problem with the C's.  Their talent just isn't good enough at the top or throughout the roster.

At the moment, the Phoenix Suns are in the finals. It looks like they may lose, but its also pretty clear that they could very well have taken this if just a few plays had broken their way.

Devin Booker is not a top 10 player. Chris Paul is super valuable, but not a top 10 player. Ayton is not a top 30 player, although he looks like he will be soon. Yet Devin Booker is standing toe to toe with the world's best player.

Is it conceivable with a couple of breaks that the C's could beat either of these two teams next year in a 7 game series? Could Jaylen Brown beat up Milwaukee in a 7 game series, or Philly? Yes, he could.

Toronto won a title recently too, and I will note that Kawhi Leonard was the only elite player on that squad, and you recently pointed out that he didn't close out a number of playoff games with the reliability you might have expected of him. That means they could have been beaten too.

The league is in a weird place. There are a lot of guys with serious firepower at the moment. There are not any truly dominant players. like LeBron in his prime, who could be relied on to significantly outperform a Tatum or a Brown over 7 games. There are guys that have been somewhat more impressive over time than Tatum and Brown, but there isn't anyone who you could rely on to outplay those two in a series, with the possible exception of Kevin Durant.

So, let's see what happens. Tatum and Brown might very well not get over the top, but they could. They have serious two way talent, and they don't shrink against better players. They have amassed serious playoff experience. We need some breaks, but we can compete as soon as next year.

The Suns are better than Boston.  Paul and Booker are both in the same tier of player as Tatum.  Ayton is very good and as a big man, is pretty darn valuable.  They have role players that know their role and excel at them.

All that said, if Anthony Davis doesn't get hurt, the Suns lose in the 1st round.  They may not get by Denver with Murray and almost certainly wouldn't have beaten the Clippers with Kawhi.  In other words, they made the finals because they played 3 injured teams.  You can only play who is in front of you, but it also doesn't mean you can just replicate this.  There is a reason that NBA champions almost exclusively have a top 5 player (or at least one that is arguably top 5).  You can't just act like history doesn't matter.  Sure the style of play changes from generation to generation, but you still just need talent and true franchise level top tier talent.  That is not only how you win titles, but how you realistically challenge for them. 

There have only been 3 teams in history to even make the Finals at least twice without a top 5 player, the 13/14 Spurs, the 04/05 Pistons, and the 78/79 Sonics (arguably the 90/92 Blazers, though I think Drexler was at least in the discussion as a top 5 player especially in 92 when he finished 2nd in MVP voting).  Even just making the Finals once without a top 5 player doesn't happen that often, Phoenix and Miami the last two years withstanding.  Before that it was the Spurs and before that it was the Pistons.  Then you had the 2000 Pacers, arguably the 1990 Blazers, and that gets you to the Sonics (some would argue the Bullets, though I think Hayes was pretty clearly a top 5 guy).  Going back further you have the 76 Suns and that is it.  In the entire history of the league.  There are certainly some other ones that you could make arguments for so it isn't a be all end all, but there aren't many others. 

History matters and history pretty clearly tells you that you need a top 5 player to even be in the discussion to make the Finals, let alone win them. 

[CBS_Take a Report]

PBS (President Brad Stevens) needs to make a decision. And it is a difficult one. The decision is:

1) Can we truly compete for a championship with a few additional pieces (PG, PF, shooter) and growth across our youth (including Tatum, Brown, Nesmith, Langford, RWIII). The key is can we compete in the window of the Jays contract before they might test free agency?

2) Or do we go for a bigger piece like Dame to get there?

Dame’s contract completely limits our ability to build other pieces around the 3-headed monster post acquisition. $48m+ in his age 34/35 season is kind of crazy.

[dannyboy35]

Really curious if Brad sees anything in Nesmith. If he knew he would be gm would he have played him more?

[Rondo9]

Denver could make a trade for Lillard in a win now move. They could send out Gordon and Porter Jr. and filler for Lillard. That's a championship team for Denver and a good star at a rebuild for Portland.

All these moves and the Celtics are stuck with what?

I like the team we have and the coaching change. I think we will be much better than last year. Health and picking up a couple of Vets should be enough to compete next year.

last season I said the Cs had the 5th ranked team in the East going into the season, most hear demurred. Turns out I greatly overrated them. Where do you rank them now?

I am impressed you were able to predict the Celtics would be the team most heavily impacted by COVID!

lol….stay in denial.

Are you saying they weren't? Did you somehow factor that into your prediction? Or are you saying it had no impact?

What prediction?  I looked at the rosters and early play and it was clear to me that there were 4 better teams. All you experts said no. The team ended up with 7th ranked.

All us "experts" probably assumed the Celtics would have better COVID practices and wouldn't miss the most games due to it of any franchise.

I just don't see what your point is, besides to antagonise

Of course you don’t. You are stubbornly holding to your wrong position. The Cs were no better that #5 in talent in the East this past season. 7^

You're hilarious. Carry on super-genius

NOPE..you are the expert…I. just noticed Cs had very little talent…but you experts did not agree. You obviously still do not agree.

We had very little talent available at once. Those are different things.

That is true, but the C's talent is also pretty clearly below the top tier teams.  For as good as Tatum is, he isn't a top 10 player and the 3 best teams in the East all have at least 1 top 10 player (and the Bucks and Nets have a top 5 player and Nets arguably have 2). 

The C's elevating into that tier absolutely depends on if Tatum takes a leap up into that category of player, and if he does Brown probably also needs to get up into the top 20 or so instead of the top 30 or so that he is.  If Tatum and Brown are basically the same, then Boston needs to add probably 2 more players that are in Brown's general range for Boston to be a darkhorse contender. 

And that is the fundamental problem with the C's.  Their talent just isn't good enough at the top or throughout the roster.

At the moment, the Phoenix Suns are in the finals. It looks like they may lose, but its also pretty clear that they could very well have taken this if just a few plays had broken their way.

Devin Booker is not a top 10 player. Chris Paul is super valuable, but not a top 10 player. Ayton is not a top 30 player, although he looks like he will be soon. Yet Devin Booker is standing toe to toe with the world's best player.

Is it conceivable with a couple of breaks that the C's could beat either of these two teams next year in a 7 game series? Could Jaylen Brown beat up Milwaukee in a 7 game series, or Philly? Yes, he could.

Toronto won a title recently too, and I will note that Kawhi Leonard was the only elite player on that squad, and you recently pointed out that he didn't close out a number of playoff games with the reliability you might have expected of him. That means they could have been beaten too.

The league is in a weird place. There are a lot of guys with serious firepower at the moment. There are not any truly dominant players. like LeBron in his prime, who could be relied on to significantly outperform a Tatum or a Brown over 7 games. There are guys that have been somewhat more impressive over time than Tatum and Brown, but there isn't anyone who you could rely on to outplay those two in a series, with the possible exception of Kevin Durant.

So, let's see what happens. Tatum and Brown might very well not get over the top, but they could. They have serious two way talent, and they don't shrink against better players. They have amassed serious playoff experience. We need some breaks, but we can compete as soon as next year.

Agreed let's see what the Celtics do this summer to address any holes and build around Tatum and Brown.

[dannyboy35]

  I go back and forth wondering if the Jays will both be built around here. I do think Jaylen is good enough as a #2 . I do think his defense needs to be more of a factor . I’m more wondering whether Tatum has the mindset to be a #1. Right now I’d say no. Too concerned with stats and moves to show up opponent. But I think this should have and could have been coached out of him 2 years ago . Dude is still awesome and will get there. I dint have much doubt on that. Just hoping it can happen really soon.

[BudweiserCeltic]

  I go back and forth wondering if the Jays will both be built around here. I do think Jaylen is good enough as a #2 . I do think his defense needs to be more of a factor . I’m more wondering whether Tatum has the mindset to be a #1. Right now I’d say no. Too concerned with stats and moves to show up opponent. But I think this should have and could have been coached out of him 2 years ago . Dude is still awesome and will get there. I dint have much doubt on that. Just hoping it can happen really soon.

You've just described almost, to not say all, #1's.