Grant Williams: all hope lost?

[SparzWizard]

I have lost all hope in him. Too much of a tweener PF/C. Not a true enough player at either the forward or center position.

The forward position has gotten smaller, quicker and more skilled and Grant Williams is simply too slow and limited in his perimeter skills to cope with it. Not good enough to be a starter or a key bench player. A below average 3rd stringer.

Then at the center spot you have Grant at 6-7 or whatever he is, can't jump, limited length. He just can't cope as a shot blocker. He is not a good enough rebounder. He can play sound one-on-one defense and good perimeter team defense and provide good team offense as a center but those other limitations mean he will forever be limited to a 3rd string status.

I wouldn't waste any more time or a valuable roster spot on Grant Williams. I've written him off.

Especially when Jabari Parker is taking up another valuable spot at backup PF and he cannot be depended on. We need someone we can depend on at backup PF!!

This is probably a fair assessment, but let’s not forget another undersized big who didn’t become an effective player until his third year in the league - Draymond Green! 

Draymond's only good when he's playing with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Kevin Durant.

[gouki88]

He's a passable 10th guy in the rotation who was asked to do more than that due to injury. In that role he's fine

[gouki88]

I have lost all hope in him. Too much of a tweener PF/C. Not a true enough player at either the forward or center position.

The forward position has gotten smaller, quicker and more skilled and Grant Williams is simply too slow and limited in his perimeter skills to cope with it. Not good enough to be a starter or a key bench player. A below average 3rd stringer.

Then at the center spot you have Grant at 6-7 or whatever he is, can't jump, limited length. He just can't cope as a shot blocker. He is not a good enough rebounder. He can play sound one-on-one defense and good perimeter team defense and provide good team offense as a center but those other limitations mean he will forever be limited to a 3rd string status.

I wouldn't waste any more time or a valuable roster spot on Grant Williams. I've written him off.

Especially when Jabari Parker is taking up another valuable spot at backup PF and he cannot be depended on. We need someone we can depend on at backup PF!!

This is probably a fair assessment, but let’s not forget another undersized big who didn’t become an effective player until his third year in the league - Draymond Green! 

Draymond's only good when he's playing with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Kevin Durant.

Like the most recent season?

[Goldstar88]

I have lost all hope in him. Too much of a tweener PF/C. Not a true enough player at either the forward or center position.

The forward position has gotten smaller, quicker and more skilled and Grant Williams is simply too slow and limited in his perimeter skills to cope with it. Not good enough to be a starter or a key bench player. A below average 3rd stringer.

Then at the center spot you have Grant at 6-7 or whatever he is, can't jump, limited length. He just can't cope as a shot blocker. He is not a good enough rebounder. He can play sound one-on-one defense and good perimeter team defense and provide good team offense as a center but those other limitations mean he will forever be limited to a 3rd string status.

I wouldn't waste any more time or a valuable roster spot on Grant Williams. I've written him off.

Especially when Jabari Parker is taking up another valuable spot at backup PF and he cannot be depended on. We need someone we can depend on at backup PF!!

This is probably a fair assessment, but let’s not forget another undersized big who didn’t become an effective player until his third year in the league - Draymond Green! 

Except that Draymond is a vastly superior athlete. That’s like comparing Tacko Fall to Kevin Garnet. Two completely different body types. Can’t learn athleticism, you’re either born with it or you are not.

[gouki88]

I have lost all hope in him. Too much of a tweener PF/C. Not a true enough player at either the forward or center position.

The forward position has gotten smaller, quicker and more skilled and Grant Williams is simply too slow and limited in his perimeter skills to cope with it. Not good enough to be a starter or a key bench player. A below average 3rd stringer.

Then at the center spot you have Grant at 6-7 or whatever he is, can't jump, limited length. He just can't cope as a shot blocker. He is not a good enough rebounder. He can play sound one-on-one defense and good perimeter team defense and provide good team offense as a center but those other limitations mean he will forever be limited to a 3rd string status.

I wouldn't waste any more time or a valuable roster spot on Grant Williams. I've written him off.

Especially when Jabari Parker is taking up another valuable spot at backup PF and he cannot be depended on. We need someone we can depend on at backup PF!!

This is probably a fair assessment, but let’s not forget another undersized big who didn’t become an effective player until his third year in the league - Draymond Green! 

Except that Draymond is a vastly superior athlete. That’s like comparing Tacko Fall to Kevin Garnet. Two completely different body types. Can’t learn athleticism, you’re either born with it or you are not.

Imagine if KG was 7'6" though

[tstorey_97]

It's hard to stand up for Grant as he isn't long enough to belong in his position and he don't got much hops to make up for it.

He is an excellent defender and got minutes because of this.

This is odd because the first issue with Grant is his size/matchup and the second is he is a very good defender.

I will assign some of this middling season to sophomore jinx, but christmas, the whole team played pretty badly.

Another beef is his three point shooting...why?

He missed his first 25 threes (?)...since then?
Reg season - 36%
Post season - 12 for 21 - 57% (he's better than Lou Williams)

Solid defender off the bench...good guy...plays hard underneath...won't lose games with dumb plays...takes pride in his defense...he's on the bench and will average 16 minutes and will improve this year...hopefully.

It will depend on how Ime sets up the rotation relative to Parker and whether Moses Brown gets minutes...both of these guys are threats to Grant's time on the court.

[PAOBoston]

Seems like genuinely great dude and teammate. Just no enough size/athleticism to be a starting caliber swing I today’s NBA. He’s an end of bench guy/break glass in case of emergency type of guy.

[rogueandpoet]

I'm in the "all hope lost" camp. At this level atheletic skills matter more than work ethic and basketball IQ. He should be moving on but he's cheap and there are a lot of bench seats to fill. Better him than a Jabari Parker.

[gouki88]

I'm in the "all hope lost" camp. At this level atheletic skills matter more than work ethic and basketball IQ. He should be moving on but he's cheap and there are a lot of bench seats to fill. Better him than a Jabari Parker.

Both he and Jabari are likely to be here next season

[86MaxwellSmart]

He shouldn't be the first bench guy to go...Carsen, Waters, Tacko and maybe Semi should be gone first.

[Celtics4ever]

There never was much hope, he is the classic guy who maxed out in college.   Smart, Strong and some skill but grossly limited by a lack of length, speed and athletic ability.

Solid defender off the bench...good guy...plays hard underneath...won't lose games with dumb plays...takes pride in his defense...he's on the bench and will average 16 minutes and will improve this year...hopefully.

What are you basing this off?  Because it is not defensive stat as his DRTG of 113.8.  We had a 30-33 when he played and a 6-3 when he did not play.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/grant-williams-drtg

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-record-without-grant-williams-2021

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-record-with-grant-williams-2021

I would also say he does not pass the eye test.  He can't rim protect or help that well, his rebounding is horrible.   The thing to me, is a guy as smart as him doesn't seem to grasp that effort is needed all the time.   He does not have the talent to coast.   I recall quite a few plays when he just watched the other team score.  He needs to play there was a game near the end of the season, when the light went off after a few DNP.  All saw real effort the kind he is going to need to make it in the league that game.   But he clearly believed the hope, of him being a starter from the previous year which was patently absurd.  Hopefully, he gets it now.   When faced with this guys will even try harder and find their niche or give up.   Time will tell how Grant responds.  Grant also need to embrace his physicality more as he is a banger and he should bang and throw his body around.

I really hope Coach Ime, doesn't play guys who stink because he likes them like Brad did.   There were often many games when we were competitive and he put in Leadkiller, (Grant) and we ended up losing badly.  I do not think his team mates trusted him.  Many time they noted on how hard Nesmith or Rob played, not once last year did I hear a team mate praise Grant.

I would love to get rid of him, I think there never was much hope with his 26" vertical.  But I doubt you could even get a second round pick for him

https://www.rockytopinsider.com/2019/05/20/how-vol-players-performed-at-2019-nba-draft-combine/

[Surferdad]

All great points in this thread.  Seems like most of us have given up on him, and I don't necessarily disagree though I've liked the guy since being drafted.

Like so many NBA players, he would be viewed differently if he had a consistent 3-point shot.  The entire league is skewed this way; I see guys who don't belong in the NBA but are here due to 3-point shooting.  If I'm Grant, I'm in the gym putting up 1000 shots a day in the off-season.

[Jvalin]

Not explosive enough to stay in front of athletic swings on the perimeter. Not tall/long enough to consistently use him as a small ball 5 either. If I had to choose, I'd rather keep Semi over Grant. At least Semi fills a need in our system as a 3+D swing. I'm perfectly happy with Semi being our 3rd string SF/PF.

[Chief]

He's a passable 10th guy in the rotation who was asked to do more than that due to injury. In that role he's fine

As long as he's not playing center, I'm ok with him.

[Vermont Green]

He's a passable 10th guy in the rotation who was asked to do more than that due to injury. In that role he's fine

Injury and just generally a roster that lacked sufficient big talent but yes, in an appropriate role, he is a useful player.  In the right match up or situation, he has the versatility to be decent fill in player.

I don't expect any developmental leap from him though.  I think we have seen what he is and now he just has to be used appropriately.