Not very exciting options for 5th starter

[RJ87]

FWIW it would be a very good thing for either Langford or Nesmith to take the final spot.

Low end upside - One of them proves to be serviceable and can fill in until a true option is found, preserving Founier as the 6th man.

Mid range upside - One or both of them account themselves very well but it's clear that something else is needed in the starting lineup. They become a blue chip trade asset for a team looking to get younger at a position of our need.

High end upside - Langford or Nesmith actually prove to be capable of being quality starters on a deep a playoff team. Celtics aren't perfect but their spot with Tatum and Brown is secure. Of the 2 I think Nesmith has the greater chance to rise this high.

Also worth noting the there is a small chance that the answer to the 5th starter question is Jabari Parker. Probably a long shot but he does provide a different skillset than Tatum and Brown.

I don't think either young wing is ready to start unless this team wants to risk another play-in game appearance.

Long-term my hope is that Langford can develop more as a secondary creator and play as BPS put it an "Evan Turner like PG role". A bench where Pritchard plays more off the ball with Langford on the ball could be a nice look down the road. As for Nesmith I was a major pessimist when he was picked largely due to his lack of foot speed. After watching him play this past season I am much more optimistic but feel that he needs to add strength and defensively play more of a 3/4 type role despite his height. The prime example of this is Jae Crowder who despite being 6'4.75" bare foot is able to defend large wings using his strength and length. If Nesmith bulks up from his current list 215 to around 225/230 that will make him roughly the same size as Paul Pierce who ended his career playing a lot of undersized 4.

With Nesmith, it typically takes some time for players to bulk up that way. We shouldn't expect him to be able to "slot up" anytime soon. Maybe a few years down the line when he's worked on his bulk and core strength, it could happen.

[CFAN38]

FWIW it would be a very good thing for either Langford or Nesmith to take the final spot.

Low end upside - One of them proves to be serviceable and can fill in until a true option is found, preserving Founier as the 6th man.

Mid range upside - One or both of them account themselves very well but it's clear that something else is needed in the starting lineup. They become a blue chip trade asset for a team looking to get younger at a position of our need.

High end upside - Langford or Nesmith actually prove to be capable of being quality starters on a deep a playoff team. Celtics aren't perfect but their spot with Tatum and Brown is secure. Of the 2 I think Nesmith has the greater chance to rise this high.

Also worth noting the there is a small chance that the answer to the 5th starter question is Jabari Parker. Probably a long shot but he does provide a different skillset than Tatum and Brown.

I don't think either young wing is ready to start unless this team wants to risk another play-in game appearance.

Long-term my hope is that Langford can develop more as a secondary creator and play as BPS put it an "Evan Turner like PG role". A bench where Pritchard plays more off the ball with Langford on the ball could be a nice look down the road. As for Nesmith I was a major pessimist when he was picked largely due to his lack of foot speed. After watching him play this past season I am much more optimistic but feel that he needs to add strength and defensively play more of a 3/4 type role despite his height. The prime example of this is Jae Crowder who despite being 6'4.75" bare foot is able to defend large wings using his strength and length. If Nesmith bulks up from his current list 215 to around 225/230 that will make him roughly the same size as Paul Pierce who ended his career playing a lot of undersized 4.

With Nesmith, it typically takes some time for players to bulk up that way. We shouldn't expect him to be able to "slot up" anytime soon. Maybe a few years down the line when he's worked on his bulk and core strength, it could happen.

I agree the bulking up will take years but I think the small 4 is already his role and he will handle it fine in a bench role. I view the added size and strength as his path to becoming a starter. Where he cant handle a traditional 4 like Randle or an Elite modern 4 like Giannis or Durant I think most nights he will be fine in the role. 

[footey]

This is the one major disadvantage of the Kemba Walker -- Al Horford trade; giving up the 16th pick. This draft is very deep in power forwards and swing forwards, someone would have been available with that pick. Maybe not starter ready season one, but by season two.

[Celtics2021]

This is the one major disadvantage of the Kemba Walker -- Al Horford trade; giving up the 16th pick. This draft is very deep in power forwards and swing forwards, someone would have been available with that pick. Maybe not starter ready season one, but by season two.

There are some guys in the second round who could also be ready in a year to take on that role.  Isaiah Livers is my pick at 45 for that reason.

[PAOBoston]

Here’s my realistic remaining off-season (with no “major’ trades).

1. Trade TT to Sac for Delon Wright. Basically same expiring salaries. They don't have a starting C pending Richaun Holmes (adding TT gives them a viable starter or quality backup if Holmes is retained). They have two PG in Fox and Haliburton already. If you need to throw in a 2nd or Carsen, do it.
2. Re-sign Fournier up to a 4/64 deal.
3. Use the tax MLE on a 4. Any of Gay, Millsap, Tucker, or Jeff Green would be fine with me. Makes it so you don't have to play Grant at all unless he earns it.
4. Sign Smart to a 4 year extension. Let's say 4/68 to get him a bit more than Fournier but not quite his max of 4/77.
5. See if you can extend TimeLord for under 12 mil per year.

Smart / Wright / Pritchard
Brown / Nesmith
Fournier / Langford
Tatum / MLE (Gay?) / Grant
Timelord / Horford / Moses

If the bench lacks scoring punch, Fournier could move to a 6th man role and the MLE 4 could move into the starting lineup.

You want to give Timelord how much??

[nebist]

Here’s my realistic remaining off-season (with no “major’ trades).

1. Trade TT to Sac for Delon Wright. Basically same expiring salaries. They don't have a starting C pending Richaun Holmes (adding TT gives them a viable starter or quality backup if Holmes is retained). They have two PG in Fox and Haliburton already. If you need to throw in a 2nd or Carsen, do it.
2. Re-sign Fournier up to a 4/64 deal.
3. Use the tax MLE on a 4. Any of Gay, Millsap, Tucker, or Jeff Green would be fine with me. Makes it so you don't have to play Grant at all unless he earns it.
4. Sign Smart to a 4 year extension. Let's say 4/68 to get him a bit more than Fournier but not quite his max of 4/77.
5. See if you can extend TimeLord for under 12 mil per year.

Smart / Wright / Pritchard
Brown / Nesmith
Fournier / Langford
Tatum / MLE (Gay?) / Grant
Timelord / Horford / Moses

If the bench lacks scoring punch, Fournier could move to a 6th man role and the MLE 4 could move into the starting lineup.

You want to give Timelord how much??

Up to 12 per year. So like 4/48. Do you think that is low or high? The guy has not been able to stay healthy. 48 mil guaranteed is generational wealth. If he continues to be injured every year, he could easily be another Nerlens Noel type in terms of career earnings (closer to league minimum than a major deal). If he wants to gamble on himself and his health, I’d just play him out through restricted free agency. So yes, this off-season an extension offer of 4/48 seems quite reasonable to me.

[footey]

This is the one major disadvantage of the Kemba Walker -- Al Horford trade; giving up the 16th pick. This draft is very deep in power forwards and swing forwards, someone would have been available with that pick. Maybe not starter ready season one, but by season two.

There are some guys in the second round who could also be ready in a year to take on that role.  Isaiah Livers is my pick at 45 for that reason.

Not excited by him. Seems like Grant Williams 2.0 in terms of height, length, etc. We need a more athletic, longer guy, someone in the 6'9" range IMO.

[Celtics2021]

This is the one major disadvantage of the Kemba Walker -- Al Horford trade; giving up the 16th pick. This draft is very deep in power forwards and swing forwards, someone would have been available with that pick. Maybe not starter ready season one, but by season two.

There are some guys in the second round who could also be ready in a year to take on that role.  Isaiah Livers is my pick at 45 for that reason.

Not excited by him. Seems like Grant Williams 2.0 in terms of height, length, etc. We need a more athletic, longer guy, someone in the 6'9" range IMO.

He's very different than Grant.  Completely different, frankly.  Grant is a small big.  Livers is a big wing.

[PAOBoston]

Here’s my realistic remaining off-season (with no “major’ trades).

1. Trade TT to Sac for Delon Wright. Basically same expiring salaries. They don't have a starting C pending Richaun Holmes (adding TT gives them a viable starter or quality backup if Holmes is retained). They have two PG in Fox and Haliburton already. If you need to throw in a 2nd or Carsen, do it.
2. Re-sign Fournier up to a 4/64 deal.
3. Use the tax MLE on a 4. Any of Gay, Millsap, Tucker, or Jeff Green would be fine with me. Makes it so you don't have to play Grant at all unless he earns it.
4. Sign Smart to a 4 year extension. Let's say 4/68 to get him a bit more than Fournier but not quite his max of 4/77.
5. See if you can extend TimeLord for under 12 mil per year.

Smart / Wright / Pritchard
Brown / Nesmith
Fournier / Langford
Tatum / MLE (Gay?) / Grant
Timelord / Horford / Moses

If the bench lacks scoring punch, Fournier could move to a 6th man role and the MLE 4 could move into the starting lineup.

You want to give Timelord how much??

Up to 12 per year. So like 4/48. Do you think that is low or high? The guy has not been able to stay healthy. 48 mil guaranteed is generational wealth. If he continues to be injured every year, he could easily be another Nerlens Noel type in terms of career earnings (closer to league minimum than a major deal). If he wants to gamble on himself and his health, I’d just play him out through restricted free agency. So yes, this off-season an extension offer of 4/48 seems quite reasonable to me.

If day on the high end for me for sure. I wouldn’t extend him considering his injury history. He’s in a contract year so will be curious to see how he reacts this year. Will he continue to get hurt often? If so, I’d package him in a trade or let him walk.

[nebist]

Here’s my realistic remaining off-season (with no “major’ trades).

1. Trade TT to Sac for Delon Wright. Basically same expiring salaries. They don't have a starting C pending Richaun Holmes (adding TT gives them a viable starter or quality backup if Holmes is retained). They have two PG in Fox and Haliburton already. If you need to throw in a 2nd or Carsen, do it.
2. Re-sign Fournier up to a 4/64 deal.
3. Use the tax MLE on a 4. Any of Gay, Millsap, Tucker, or Jeff Green would be fine with me. Makes it so you don't have to play Grant at all unless he earns it.
4. Sign Smart to a 4 year extension. Let's say 4/68 to get him a bit more than Fournier but not quite his max of 4/77.
5. See if you can extend TimeLord for under 12 mil per year.

Smart / Wright / Pritchard
Brown / Nesmith
Fournier / Langford
Tatum / MLE (Gay?) / Grant
Timelord / Horford / Moses

If the bench lacks scoring punch, Fournier could move to a 6th man role and the MLE 4 could move into the starting lineup.

You want to give Timelord how much??

Up to 12 per year. So like 4/48. Do you think that is low or high? The guy has not been able to stay healthy. 48 mil guaranteed is generational wealth. If he continues to be injured every year, he could easily be another Nerlens Noel type in terms of career earnings (closer to league minimum than a major deal). If he wants to gamble on himself and his health, I’d just play him out through restricted free agency. So yes, this off-season an extension offer of 4/48 seems quite reasonable to me.

If day on the high end for me for sure. I wouldn’t extend him considering his injury history. He’s in a contract year so will be curious to see how he reacts this year. Will he continue to get hurt often? If so, I’d package him in a trade or let him walk.

Got it. That’s a reasonable path forward. His health makes him a boom or bust prospect. The way I look at it is that IF he can stay healthy and IF he can play 25-30 minutes a night his production levels would probably be more in line with an 18-20 mil per year player. Whenever he’s on the court, the guy produces. Of course, those are two pretty big IFs. He could also be a chronically injured player who can never handle more than 20 minutes a night (which probably puts him in more of the 4-8 mil range value. Offering 12 seems like a worthwhile gamble to me that he can hit the high end of his value.

Of course, if his camp totally shut down extension negotiations and seemed dead-set on his worth being closer to 20 per year, then I would definitely be looking to package him in the right deal this offseason or trade deadline.