Which two players make the Celtics better

[KG Living Legend]

 If we could simply add these two players to the Celtics.  Which two would make us a better team.

DeAndre Ayton and Lonzo Ball or

John Collins and Trey Young

[KG Living Legend]

 Horford/Timelord
John Collins
Tatum
Brown
Trae Young

Pretty nasty

DeAndre Ayton
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Ball

[tarheelsxxiii]

It's kind of crazy to believe because he's so small, but I think Trey will be a superstar for a long time.

[C3LTSF4N]

Trey and Collins and it’s not that close imo

Ayton and Ball have passive mentalities while Trey is an alpha.  Collins isn’t far behind, has a rounded game, and is putting up the numbers he is while next to Capela.  Easy choice.

[gouki88]

Interesting. Ayton is a significantly better defender than Collins, and Ball is immeasurably better on that end than Young. Ball is also (stunningly) the better 3 point shooter over his career, let alone over the last two seasons.

Young is obviously the most dynamic player of the four, but I think he'd potentially struggle with how much less usage he'd get here alongside the Jays compared to in Atlanta. Collins is the ideal 4 next to Horford, but he'd be the fourth option on the court in that lineup, which I don't think suits his ability to score efficiently.

I'd probably go Ayton and Ball. They seem to fit Udoka's philosophy of a defence-first attitude, and they're great team players. It would also be infuriating watching Trae play defence. Worse than IT

[SparzWizard]

I don't think we're getting DeAndre Ayton without giving up Brown.

But I'd love to have him on this team. Can grab boards, play D, and put up points.

[td450]

Trey and Collins and it’s not that close imo

Ayton and Ball have passive mentalities while Trey is an alpha.  Collins isn’t far behind, has a rounded game, and is putting up the numbers he is while next to Capela.  Easy choice.

I would argue Ayton and Ball and its not close. Ayton has become the most valuable of the 4 players, and I see nothing subtractive about either him or Ball. Put those two on this team and give Udoka some time to work it out and that's the league's best defense by a wide margin. It is an athletically intimidating team from front to back, whether Langford, Nesmith or Smart takes the final spot. With Ayton's rebounding and Ball pushing in transition, we'd become a track team.

Trae Young and Collins are a lot of fun on offense, but the defense would be weaker, and its hard to see how Young fits his high usage game in.

[footey]

Ayton and Ball because as gouk pointed out they don't require the same usage as Trae.

Ayton and Ball would be the perfect two to add to our roster.  Ayton has really matured as a player.  Impressive playoff performance.

[action781]

I was watching the Milwaukee/ATL game the other day and found myself saying "Why is PJ Tucker in the game?  There's nobody on ATL he needs to guard and it allows ATL to hide Trae Young on him."  And then I started wondering why Milwaukee doesn't just target, force switches (if needed), and attack Trae every possession the way Toronto did to Kemba last year and Houston used to do to Steph Curry.  Then I realized Milwaukee doesn't have a lead guard who can just cook every possession at will.  And neither did Philly.  And neither did NYK.

Which made me realize that I'm not sure Atlanta (and Trae Young) is emerging as this conference force to be reckoned with for years to come.  I think really they just got lucky in their playoff matchups so far.

They're fortunate they are in a conference right now that is kind of lacking those kinds of guards and could find some more favorable playoff paths in the next few years.  But player movement (and new young guys emerging) can change the landscape of a conference pretty quickly.

Basically, I'm saying Trae is a good player which we're seeing these playoffs, but we haven't seen him against an opponent that can really exploit his clear weaknesses.  For that reason I'm taking Ball and Ayton.

[slamtheking]

I was watching the Milwaukee/ATL game the other day and found myself saying "Why is PJ Tucker in the game?  There's nobody on ATL he needs to guard and it allows ATL to hide Trae Young on him."  And then I started wondering why Milwaukee doesn't just target, force switches (if needed), and attack Trae every possession the way Toronto did to Kemba last year and Houston used to do to Steph Curry.  Then I realized Milwaukee doesn't have a lead guard who can just cook every possession at will.  And neither did Philly.  And neither did NYK.

Which made me realize that I'm not sure Atlanta (and Trae Young) is emerging as this conference force to be reckoned with for years to come.  I think really they just got lucky in their playoff matchups so far.

They're fortunate they are in a conference right now that is kind of lacking those kinds of guards and could find some more favorable playoff paths in the next few years.  But player movement (and new young guys emerging) can change the landscape of a conference pretty quickly.

Basically, I'm saying Trae is a good player which we're seeing these playoffs, but we haven't seen him against an opponent that can really exploit his clear weaknesses.  For that reason I'm taking Ball and Ayton.

the matchups are an interesting take.  If that is indeed the case, Brooklyn would roast him with Kyrie and Harden where either one would go off on him (not that they can't go off on pretty much any other guard in the league).

[action781]

I was watching the Milwaukee/ATL game the other day and found myself saying "Why is PJ Tucker in the game?  There's nobody on ATL he needs to guard and it allows ATL to hide Trae Young on him."  And then I started wondering why Milwaukee doesn't just target, force switches (if needed), and attack Trae every possession the way Toronto did to Kemba last year and Houston used to do to Steph Curry.  Then I realized Milwaukee doesn't have a lead guard who can just cook every possession at will.  And neither did Philly.  And neither did NYK.

Which made me realize that I'm not sure Atlanta (and Trae Young) is emerging as this conference force to be reckoned with for years to come.  I think really they just got lucky in their playoff matchups so far.

They're fortunate they are in a conference right now that is kind of lacking those kinds of guards and could find some more favorable playoff paths in the next few years.  But player movement (and new young guys emerging) can change the landscape of a conference pretty quickly.

Basically, I'm saying Trae is a good player which we're seeing these playoffs, but we haven't seen him against an opponent that can really exploit his clear weaknesses.  For that reason I'm taking Ball and Ayton.

the matchups are an interesting take.  If that is indeed the case, Brooklyn would roast him with Kyrie and Harden where either one would go off on him (not that they can't go off on pretty much any other guard in the league).

Yep, exactly.  If they played against a Brooklyn, Phoenix, or Portland team I think they would lose that series.  Surely other teams can be included there as well.  I think they'd even struggle a lot in a series against a healthy Boston or maybe even a healthy Toronto.

[Moranis]

Young is a lot like IT4.  Can be incredible on offense but is terrible on defense, as such his impact is limited.  He also shoots like he is Curry, but hits them more like Smart.  Young is a surprisingly mediocre shooter. 

That said, I think I'd rather have Young and Collins than Ayton and Ball.  Collins is the perfect PF for this team.  That is where the difference really lies.  Ayton certainly has a brighter future than Collins, but I just like the fit of Collins more.  And I don't think Young or Ball are particularly great fits on the team as they both need the ball to be effective.  Young is just a more impactful and better player overall than Ball, so I'd take him even with his terrible defense.

[KG Living Legend]

interesting conversations here.

[Who]

My first reaction was Lonzo and Ayton for reasons already mentioned - defensive capabilities and low usage complementary offensive games.

But I quickly changed face and decided to go with Trae Young and John Collins instead. Despite the defensive frailties and the diminished returns on offense from having too many guys who need the ball ... this team would still be better.

G - Trae Young
F - Jaylen
F - Tatum
F - John Collins
C - Horford

That team is absolutely unguardable. There is no way to stop that team. I do not care that it has some defensive weaknesses, it's offense is simply unstoppable.

Whatever you lose on defense, you are still gaining more on offense. It is a net positive.

[CFAN38]

 If we could simply add these two players to the Celtics.  Which two would make us a better team.

DeAndre Ayton and Lonzo Ball or

John Collins and Trey Young

That's a great thought experiment.

I would go with Ayton and Ball. Balls size, shooting, and play making would better compliment the Jays then Trae. Ayton as an anchor and dive man would also be a great fit. Both player combos make the Cs a championship caliber team but while Trae and Collins would work but I think great teams would pick them apart on D.