Author Topic: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.  (Read 20977 times)

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Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #150 on: June 16, 2021, 06:18:22 PM »

Offline ozgod

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SMH......now we have to consider freaking gender/race diversity in coaching hires? Getting less and less interested in sports. Can't simply root for your team, nope, you have to align with a particular side of politics now.


And if you dare say....gasp.......don't let gender/race even enter into the discussion, you're a sexist or racist.

These team has a very good chance at being something special. They start letting gender factor into hiring decisions then the deserve to become irrelevant.

Some of you folks who profess to want to keep gender/race diversity out of sports should really take your own advice. There's no suggestion that the team has seen or plans to act upon some billboard that some fan or activist group put up, or be influenced by it when it comes to their coach hiring practice. Anyone can put up a message on a billboard if they pay, that's legal in our country. You can put up your own contrary message in another billboard if you want to, I doubt the Celtics will use it to influence them the same as this billboard.

In fact this is the history of the billboard message:

Quote
As the Celtics continue their search for a new coach, a nutrition company decided to put up a billboard along the Mass. Pike suggesting that the team hire Kara Lawson or Becky Hammon.

“We wanted to highlight two outstanding candidates and a moment in history in which both are supremely qualified based on the context of their basketball résumé,” said Jarrod Jordan, the chief marketing officer for Iovate Health Sciences Inc., the parent company of Six Star Pro Nutrition, which purchased the billboard.

“Boston’s basketball franchise made history in 1966 by making Bill Russell the first African-American head coach in a major North American men’s sports league. Six Star would love to see yet another groundbreaking hire in 2021.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/15/sports/hire-kara-or-becky-billboard-mass-pike-calls-celtics-hire-woman-head-coach/

It's advertising, that's all it is. You guys are getting worked up over some advertising billboard. The sad thing is that if one of those women do get hired people who should know better will say it was because of the billboard when only a GM who wants to lose his job would hire anyone other than the most qualified candidate, be they male, female, black, white, Asian, or Martian.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #151 on: June 16, 2021, 06:49:01 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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It's advertising, that's all it is. You guys are getting worked up over some advertising billboard. The sad thing is that if one of those women do get hired people who should know better will say it was because of the billboard when only a GM who wants to lose his job would hire anyone other than the most qualified candidate, be they male, female, black, white, Asian, or Martian.

This is obviously not true

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #152 on: June 16, 2021, 07:40:08 PM »

Offline Who

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In an ironic life twist:

In the real world, for a lot of office jobs, there's a huge stigma if you're currently unemployed for more than 6+ months.  Supposedly, a lot of HR people will automatically not consider your resume if they see you've been out of work for that long.  If nobody has hired you yet, something must be wrong with you.  Also a lesser, but similar stigma often exists if you try to go the management route but sit in one position too long without getting promoted.

I know these stigmas exist and absolutely hate it.


Now thinking about the next head coach.  A lot of the names thrown out there, these guys have been assistants for 10+ years.  And I find myself thinking something must be wrong with them if nobody has offered them a head coaching job yet.

Doc Rivers got a head coaching job right away and was COY in his first year.

Stevens went from college kid to assistant coach to D1 head coach to NBA coach by the time he was 36.

Guys like Ainge and Steve Kerr get GM and coaching jobs with out any experience and turn that into great stories of success.

These are the kinds of wunderkinds I want as the next Celtics coach.


I don't want Sam Cassell or Darvin Ham or any these guys that have been assistants for 10+ years.  Something must be wrong with them if nobody has hired them yet.  I want the guys that teams are fighting over who seemingly shoot to the top with no/minimal dues (don't worry, you don't have to point out how flawed this thinking is, I know guys who go this route often suck.  Looking at you Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Steve Nash, Luke Walton, etc.)

Based on my faulty logic,  Billups sounds like a good candidate (dude was being offered GM jobs right away, also seems like he'll have his choice of coaching offers).  Kara Lawson, who very quickly went from player to analyst to NBA assistant to major D1 coach and now possibly NBA coach sounds even better!

 I hate when HR and hiring managers treat people like this in the real world, now I find myself treating coaching candidates the same way.  Go figure lol.

Yep, that is indeed faulty logic.
I don't know, there may very well be some truth to a lot of it.  That isn't to say it would work in every scenario, but if someone is in the same job and keeps getting passed up for promotions, there is probably a reason and that reason is probably more times than not some form of competence.
I think a lot of the reason why people with less experience get jobs over those with more experience comes down to the inexperienced person showing they are innovative and have a firmer grip on the larger and future view of the situation. Those abilities make them shine in the eyes of people doing the hiring.

Competence definitely has something to do with it too, as you mention. Some of these long time assistants could be poor people managers or poor time managers or lacking in running a system or poor ability to teach/develop youth. They just may have maxed out their coaching abilities in a smaller position and just don't have that special "it" that it takes to be a head coach, so will never become a head coach.

I see the NBA (and a lot of team sports) as being down to backroom dealings -- a boy's club -- cronyism -- whatever you want to call it.

Having friendships (or contacts) in key decision making positions is often vital to getting picked for a job.

It should be about qualifications but there are little to no clear qualifications for head coaching jobs (in the NBA). There are attributes required but they are subjective rather than objective.

Outside of friendships / contacts, the next most vital part is how well you interview -- how charming or likeable you are, how you make someone feel, even how good looking you are has a surprising amount of influence on getting a job or not -- particularly when your job lacks qualifications & relies on subjective assessments rather than the opposite.

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #153 on: June 16, 2021, 07:59:48 PM »

Offline liam

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In an ironic life twist:

In the real world, for a lot of office jobs, there's a huge stigma if you're currently unemployed for more than 6+ months.  Supposedly, a lot of HR people will automatically not consider your resume if they see you've been out of work for that long.  If nobody has hired you yet, something must be wrong with you.  Also a lesser, but similar stigma often exists if you try to go the management route but sit in one position too long without getting promoted.

I know these stigmas exist and absolutely hate it.


Now thinking about the next head coach.  A lot of the names thrown out there, these guys have been assistants for 10+ years.  And I find myself thinking something must be wrong with them if nobody has offered them a head coaching job yet.

Doc Rivers got a head coaching job right away and was COY in his first year.

Stevens went from college kid to assistant coach to D1 head coach to NBA coach by the time he was 36.

Guys like Ainge and Steve Kerr get GM and coaching jobs with out any experience and turn that into great stories of success.

These are the kinds of wunderkinds I want as the next Celtics coach.


I don't want Sam Cassell or Darvin Ham or any these guys that have been assistants for 10+ years.  Something must be wrong with them if nobody has hired them yet.  I want the guys that teams are fighting over who seemingly shoot to the top with no/minimal dues (don't worry, you don't have to point out how flawed this thinking is, I know guys who go this route often suck.  Looking at you Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Steve Nash, Luke Walton, etc.)

Based on my faulty logic,  Billups sounds like a good candidate (dude was being offered GM jobs right away, also seems like he'll have his choice of coaching offers).  Kara Lawson, who very quickly went from player to analyst to NBA assistant to major D1 coach and now possibly NBA coach sounds even better!

 I hate when HR and hiring managers treat people like this in the real world, now I find myself treating coaching candidates the same way.  Go figure lol.

Yep, that is indeed faulty logic.
I don't know, there may very well be some truth to a lot of it.  That isn't to say it would work in every scenario, but if someone is in the same job and keeps getting passed up for promotions, there is probably a reason and that reason is probably more times than not some form of competence.
I think a lot of the reason why people with less experience get jobs over those with more experience comes down to the inexperienced person showing they are innovative and have a firmer grip on the larger and future view of the situation. Those abilities make them shine in the eyes of people doing the hiring.

Competence definitely has something to do with it too, as you mention. Some of these long time assistants could be poor people managers or poor time managers or lacking in running a system or poor ability to teach/develop youth. They just may have maxed out their coaching abilities in a smaller position and just don't have that special "it" that it takes to be a head coach, so will never become a head coach.

I see the NBA (and a lot of team sports) as being down to backroom dealings -- a boy's club -- cronyism -- whatever you want to call it.

Having friendships (or contacts) in key decision making positions is often vital to getting picked for a job.

It should be about qualifications but there are little to no clear qualifications for head coaching jobs (in the NBA). There are attributes required but they are subjective rather than objective.

Outside of friendships / contacts, the next most vital part is how well you interview -- how charming or likeable you are, how you make someone feel, even how good looking you are has a surprising amount of influence on getting a job or not -- particularly when your job lacks qualifications & relies on subjective assessments rather than the opposite.

Look at the Celtics starting five and who got the opportunities and who didn't. Bird, McHale, and Ainge got all the jobs, and DJ and Parish not so much. A real shame about DJ. DJ was probably the best coach of that bunch. I saw him coach the Austin Torros when I lived in Austin. Even Rick Carlisle and Chris Ford got head coaching jobs.

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #154 on: June 16, 2021, 08:08:25 PM »

Offline letsgoblue86

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https://mobile.twitter.com/Marc_DAmico/status/1405249689553866752

May have been posted already but does this mean Sam Cassell?

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #155 on: June 16, 2021, 08:10:37 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #156 on: June 16, 2021, 08:13:30 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #157 on: June 16, 2021, 08:13:52 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #158 on: June 16, 2021, 08:14:41 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #159 on: June 16, 2021, 08:16:57 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I just don’t associate Cassell with the 2008 championship team.

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #160 on: June 16, 2021, 08:21:47 PM »

Offline liam

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I just don’t associate Cassell with the 2008 championship team.


42   Tony Allen   SG   
93   P.J. Brown   PF   
28   Sam Cassell   
11   Glen Davis   C   
5   Kevin Garnett      
50   Eddie House   
43   Kendrick Perkins      
34   Paul Pierce   
66   Scot Pollard   
41   James Posey   
0   Leon Powe   C   
13   Gabe Pruitt   
9   Rajon Rondo   
44   Brian Scalabrine
20     R. Allen

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #161 on: June 16, 2021, 08:25:29 PM »

Offline liam

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I just don’t associate Cassell with the 2008 championship team.

Perk?

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #162 on: June 16, 2021, 08:30:16 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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SMH......now we have to consider freaking gender/race diversity in coaching hires? Getting less and less interested in sports. Can't simply root for your team, nope, you have to align with a particular side of politics now.


And if you dare say....gasp.......don't let gender/race even enter into the discussion, you're a sexist or racist.

These team has a very good chance at being something special. They start letting gender factor into hiring decisions then the deserve to become irrelevant.

We "have to" consider gender/race/diversity?   That's an untruth, Angry Guy.  You and I both know that no one has to.   But can we consider racial history, equity, opportunity if we want to?  I think we are allowed to.   I wouldn't favor hiring someone solely because they are black.  However, I would consider race as deciding factor if other variables are relatively equal (specifically in the case of NBA Head Coaching given the history of racial favoritism toward white males).  Freedom allows me to think this way just as it allows you think differently.  And not wanting to consider race at all does not make you a racist.

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #163 on: June 16, 2021, 08:31:31 PM »

Offline coco

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I think it should be Chauncey or Sam Cassell but if its Hammond or Lawson just be sure it is because they are the best fits and not because of progressive pressure from entitled billboards.

Gotta say, that's a first.
😂

Re: Ignore the billboard. Hire the right coach for the right reasons.
« Reply #164 on: June 16, 2021, 08:32:55 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I just don’t associate Cassell with the 2008 championship team.


42   Tony Allen   SG   
93   P.J. Brown   PF   
28   Sam Cassell   
11   Glen Davis   C   
5   Kevin Garnett      
50   Eddie House   
43   Kendrick Perkins      
34   Paul Pierce   
66   Scot Pollard   
41   James Posey   
0   Leon Powe   C   
13   Gabe Pruitt   
9   Rajon Rondo   
44   Brian Scalabrine
20     R. Allen

How much playing time did Sam get?