KD on JT

[Kernewek]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Beat me to it.

[td450]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

Knowing that you have a legit #1 option offensively that is capable of taking over games is not meaningless. Tatum was top 10 in scoring during the regular season and 6th in the post season. His talent will hopefully attract FA’s to come to Boston and play alongside him. Boston, Golden State and Washington May have been irrelevant this year, but it wasn’t due to their star player not performing at a high level.

You are right. Having a legit #1 option offensively that is capable of taking over games is not meaningless. Its just nearly meaningless. Lots of bad teams have prolific scorers. Kemba scored 25.6 ppg a few years ago, and scred 40+ several times.

[gouki88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

Knowing that you have a legit #1 option offensively that is capable of taking over games is not meaningless. Tatum was top 10 in scoring during the regular season and 6th in the post season. His talent will hopefully attract FA’s to come to Boston and play alongside him. Boston, Golden State and Washington May have been irrelevant this year, but it wasn’t due to their star player not performing at a high level.

You are right. Having a legit #1 option offensively that is capable of taking over games is not meaningless. Its just nearly meaningless. Lots of bad teams have prolific scorers. Kemba scored 25.6 ppg a few years ago, and scred 40+ several times.

No it isn't. Really unsure what your point is. That garbage Hornets team nearly made the playoffs because of Kemba's offensive ability - their second best player was Jeremy Lamb. Almost all the best teams have these kinds of players.

Tatum being in the company of all-time legends in terms of his scoring over the last 2 months is not meaningless. How could you come to such a conclusion?

[Goldstar88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

[gouki88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

[Goldstar88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

[gouki88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

It depends. Kemba is much more likely to play in that series.

Kemba is elite at penetrating defences, can score from all three levels, and plays average defence. You trying to paint him out as an "atrocious" defender is really highlighting your bias

[Goldstar88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

It depends. Kemba is much more likely to play in that series.

Kemba is elite at penetrating defences, can score from all three levels, and plays average defence. You trying to paint him out as an "atrocious" defender is really highlighting your bias

If he was average defensively, Spolestra’s entire offensive game plan for Miami wouldn’t have been to go at Kemba every time down the court. He completely exposed the C’s defensively and the only way for Brad to stop it was to pull Walker out of the game. The only other player that I’ve seen an opposing team do that to was IT. Honestly, I can’t think of a starting NBA point guard that is worse defensively than Kemba is.

[Ogaju]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

It depends. Kemba is much more likely to play in that series.

Kemba is elite at penetrating defences, can score from all three levels, and plays average defence. You trying to paint him out as an "atrocious" defender is really highlighting your bias

If he was average defensively, Spolestra’s entire offensive game plan for Miami wouldn’t have been to go at Kemba every time down the court. He completely exposed the C’s defensively and the only way for Brad to stop it was to pull Walker out of the game. The only other player that I’ve seen an opposing team do that to was IT. Honestly, I can’t think of a starting NBA point guard that is worse defensively than Kemba is.

Shhhhhhh

[gouki88]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

It depends. Kemba is much more likely to play in that series.

Kemba is elite at penetrating defences, can score from all three levels, and plays average defence. You trying to paint him out as an "atrocious" defender is really highlighting your bias

If he was average defensively, Spolestra’s entire offensive game plan for Miami wouldn’t have been to go at Kemba every time down the court. He completely exposed the C’s defensively and the only way for Brad to stop it was to pull Walker out of the game. The only other player that I’ve seen an opposing team do that to was IT. Honestly, I can’t think of a starting NBA point guard that is worse defensively than Kemba is.

Ah of course, one playoff series overwrites his generally average defence!

Then I suggest you're either not trying, or your bias has completely blinded you. Trae Young, Ja Morant, Collin Sexton, LaMelo Ball, Kyrie Irving, Cole Anthony, Westbrook and D'Angelo Russell all play worse defence, statistically and by eye.

[Muzzy66]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

I think you're missing the point. 

Curry and Beal were the NBA's #1 and #2 scorers this year, so they are absolutely the epitome of "elite" in terms of scoring ability right now, and (at 27 and 33) they are doing that in the prime of their careers, at a point where they have both refined their scoring ability to about the best it will ever be. 

Tatum was the only other player in the NBA who put up peak scoring performances on their level, yet he's only 23 years old and in his 4th season as a pro.  He still has a ton to learn and is nowhere near the prime of his career. 

He's not special because he averaged 27 and put up multiple 50+ point games.  He's special because he did that at the age of 23 in his 4th NBA season.  He's special because he helped carry his team to the ECF as a 19 year old rookie.  He's special because he's nowhere near his prime and he's already averaging 27+ and putting up 50+ point games.  His potential is absolutely off the charts - god only knows how good he could be in 2-3 years if he continues growing at this rate. 

It's not fair to downplay how special a talent he is because of his lack of leadership skills.  He's 23, and 4 years in to his career.  Even the greatest stars (Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, etc) didn't really develop those great leadership skills until 5-7 years into their careers.  I'd argue that a number of elite stars (like Harden and Durant) still don't have those leadership skills even now in their primes.  So expecting Tatum to be out there leading the way as a 4th year player just isn't realistic. 

If you want to gauge how Tatum is doing then compare where he is right now to where other players have been at this same point in their careers.  I think you'll find his production at this point in his career puts him in some pretty rare and special territory.

Also surprised you downplayed the value of Curry's scoring given that he is a 2x MVP and has three championship rings...

[Muzzy66]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

19.3 PPG
4.9 APG
4.0 RPG
42% / 36% / 90% FT
Five games with 30+ points

In your mind this describe a player who "just not good anymore"?

I openly acknowledge that Kemba's injury issues have resulted in him being less successful then most of us hoped he would be, but to say he isn't a good player is just silly. 

By any reasonable measure an NBA point guard who averages >19 PPG and has five 30+ point games in a season is a 'good player', and if you asked NBA GM's / coaches if they consider Kemba Walker to be a 'good player' I'm not sure if there would be a single coach/GM that would say no. 
 
Is he an elite player? No.  A superstar level player? No.  An all-Star level player?  Debatable.  A good player? Absolutely.

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

When Kemba played on fringe-playoff Hornets team he averaged 25 points. 4 rebounds and 5.4 assists and was clearly by far the best player on that team.   

Hayward just played on a fringe-playoff Hornets team, where he averaged 19.6 points / 5.9 rebounds / 4.1 assists and was arguably outplayed by Terry Rozier.

I respect your opinion, but I'm not sure it's supported by reality.

I think Hayward is a nice player.  I think as an overall player he's about on par with Kemba - not as capable of carrying a team offensively, but makes up for it in other areas. I think that trying to argue either one of those guys is a level above the other is a losing argument.

[Kernewek]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

This is an interesting take that is not necessarily tethered to reality. Hayward has played fewer minutes over the last three seasons (this is after his leg injury) and has been a worse player overall in that time by more or less any metric you can think of.  Even this last season is a wash between them (they're basically interchangeable).

And, not that you mentioned it, but he's on an even worse contract than Kemba relative to his production.

[ozgod]

hI think we sometimes take for granted just how impressive Tatum (and even Brown) is. 

Not often you see a player who - by 23 years old and 3 NBA seasons - has already:

* Averaged 27 / 4 / 7
* Scored 50+ points 3 times (one of those being in the playoffs)
* Has made two All-Star teams (including one start)
* Matched or broken multiple franchise records
* Has had his name used in the same sentence as Larry Bird - one of the greatest players of all time

This kid has "MVP candidate" and "future hall of famer" written all over him, and we are lucky enough to be able to sit here and watch him grow.  He's going to be a special, special player.

There are only three players who have put up multiple 50+ point games in the regular season this year:
1: Steph Curry (3 times)
2. Tayson Tatum (2 times)
3. Bradley Beal (2 times)

That's some good company.

50 point games are not a sign of anything. They are meaningless. How good Tatum will be will be determined by how well the team around him plays. Golden State, Boston and Washington were all irrelevant this year.

We need scoring down roster. When Tatum scores 30 and RWill gets 10, Nesmith gets 10, Langford gets 10 and Pritchard gets 10, we should all throw a party, because that's when Tatum will be good enough.

LOL 50 point games irrelevant....I might've miscounted, but it looks like a Boston Celtic has scored 50+ only 16 times in 75 seasons.  3 of those 16 times were by Jayson Tatum this year.

How about 60 point games?

Only a couple of players in NBA history have scored 60 and who weren't also perennial all-nba caliber players.

It's amazing to me that we have this phenomenal young player, only 23 years old, clearly on his way to being one of the top players in the league, and some fans act like he's nothing special, and use his mediocre supporting cast to justify it.

Well this is the same site that is obsessed with trading Kemba.

Right, because he’s just not good anymore. Must be the worst max FA signing in franchise history.

Hayward?

Hayward is a much better player than Kemba. Both are going to miss a lot of games due to injury, but when they do play, id take Hayward every day of the week.

I like Hayward more, but he managed 125 regular season games and 14 playoff games in 3 seasons. Not to mention, his healthiest season was significantly below when he was our 6th man. I love Hayward, and wanted him to end his career here, but I think Kemba was better than him last season. Advanced metrics don't tell the whole story, but they flatter Kemba a lot more than Hayward.

Kemba, on the other hand, has already played 99 regular season games 20 playoff games in 2 seasons. Kemba has been a significant positive on the offensive end for us, especially last season. This season he was still a positive when he played for us, quite significantly so.

I just think you're disproportionately harsh on Kemba for no real reason.

Let me ask you this, if you could only have one of those guys for a playoff game or series, who are you taking? Seems like a no brainer. What exactly does Kemba do well. Shooting percentages, average. Passing, average. Rebounding, average. Defense, atrocious. Hayward may have missed more time due to injury, but he clearly helped the team more when he was on the court.

It depends. Kemba is much more likely to play in that series.

Kemba is elite at penetrating defences, can score from all three levels, and plays average defence. You trying to paint him out as an "atrocious" defender is really highlighting your bias

If he was average defensively, Spolestra’s entire offensive game plan for Miami wouldn’t have been to go at Kemba every time down the court. He completely exposed the C’s defensively and the only way for Brad to stop it was to pull Walker out of the game. The only other player that I’ve seen an opposing team do that to was IT. Honestly, I can’t think of a starting NBA point guard that is worse defensively than Kemba is.

Spoelstra's (and Nurse's) entire defensive game plan was also to put Kemba in a box and one to nullify him and deny him the ball for both the Toronto and the Miami series. Because they were most worried about him, not JT or JB.

Toronto tried a new look, running a box-and-one zone at Walker, which seemed to throw him off his game. With Jayson Tatum struggling as well, the Celtics' offense ground to a halt for stretches.

“The box-and-one denied me the whole first half,” Walker said. “The second half, I just couldn’t really find a rhythm. I thought I had a few good looks but it just wasn’t enough to help my teammates out tonight. Just a bad offensive night for me, terrible offensive night for me.”

The Celtics will need Walker to find a rhythm -- as Wednesday proved, his offensive catalyst is crucial. On multiple occasions, the Celtics appeared to have a chance to pull away. Every time, Toronto had just enough offense to hang around, but only because Walker and Tatum were both struggling.

Still, the Celtics got a lot of good looks against the zone aside from Walker, or -- as Brad Stevens noted -- as a direct result of the attention paid to Walker by the zone.

“In the first half, that’s not really fair to Kemba, because they’re in a box-and-one on him, playing on top of him, and we are getting great shots against it, throughout the entire first quarter," Stevens said. “At that point in time, his job is to either be a spacer or a cutter or a screener, and watch everybody else score. Then, when they get out of it, then he gets better opportunities. So that’s not on Kemba anything about the three attempts in the first half or anything like that, it was how they were guarding him. They took him away, great sign of respect.”

Stevens is right: Taking Walker out of the game so intentionally shows Toronto realizes how important Walker is to Boston, especially when he is efficient. When Walker shoots 50 percent or more from the field this season, Boston is 20-6 (interestingly, he scored his season highs in two of those six losses -- 44 and 40).

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/09/kemba-walker-struggled-in-boston-celtics-game-6-loss-but-remains-confident-in-teammates-why-wouldnt-i-be.html

I think he would be the first to say that we haven't seen the best of him. But he came here on a max contract and (like Hayward) ended up playing a complementary role deferring to his two younger teammates in the Jays. I think that's really what people are upset about, like they were with Hayward. Someone making max money and being a support player.

[Celtics4ever]

Spoelstra's (and Nurse's) entire defensive game plan was also to put Kemba in a box and one to nullify him and deny him the ball for both the Toronto and the Miami series. Because they were most worried about him, not JT or JB.

Boy was he wrong there.