Suns vs Hawks: more impressive turnaround recently?

[Tr1boy]

Teams that havent made the playoffs in years. And now look like tough outs

Lakerd didnt have AD..but Suns look scary. Booker scored 47. They have balance scoring and Ayton is a stud C

Hawks have surrounded Young with quality shooters. And Capela inside game ...also causes issues

Right now at this sec... give me Suns vs Hawks 7 game series. Not saying the finals... just in general.

[Rikibellevie]

The Suns : they have a much better record in the more competitive west. They were expected to battle for Play In, as we could imagine Hawks could go 5-8 on the east. They also eliminated Lakers, not the Knicks. They have a real chance to go to final with the open west now that LA teams are (or will be) out - I guess Hawks has no chance to go to final until big injuries in ECSF and ECF.  And there changings since last years were less spectulars on the picture.

[Tr1boy]

The Suns : they have a much better record in the more competitive west. They were expected to battle for Play In, as we could imagine Hawks could go 5-8 on the east. They also eliminated Lakers, not the Knicks. And there changings since last years were less spectulars on the picture.

not to dis credit Suns

but Lebron was not 100 percent healthy. AD was a non factor due to injury. Should have never played

[Moranis]

It is pretty clearly the Suns.  Better team, better record, better 1st round win, and the team far more likely to win their 2nd round match-up. 

[Tr1boy]

It is pretty clearly the Suns.  Better team, better record, better 1st round win, and the team far more likely to win their 2nd round match-up.

If 76ers dont have a healthy Embiid

Dont discount discount the Hawks

[Rikibellevie]

The Suns : they have a much better record in the more competitive west. They were expected to battle for Play In, as we could imagine Hawks could go 5-8 on the east. They also eliminated Lakers, not the Knicks. And there changings since last years were less spectulars on the picture.

not to dis credit Suns

but Lebron was not 100 percent healthy. AD was a non factor due to injury. Should have never played

Even with an 80% LeBron (or maybe 90% for his age) and 30% AD it is more impressive than beating the Knicks, who may have been the worst team in PO with the Wizzards.

[Birdman]

I pick Atlanta as a top 4 team in East before the season..Suns has really surprised me..I thought maybe a 7th or 8th seed..Portland most disappointed team

[Tr1boy]

I pick Atlanta as a top 4 team in East before the season..Suns has really surprised me..I thought maybe a 7th or 8th seed..Portland most disappointed team

Portland is always "short"

even after bringing in Powell

Not sure what Malone said or did ... but his Nuggets turned on the intensity after the two losses

[Who]

Neither. They both sold out their futures for short term gains.

Phoenix went all in on an injury prone overpaid 35yo PG despite not being good enough to win a title. Tiny window to make this work followed by a huge regression. Then a difficult rebuild around two young stars with one of those stars (D.Booker) likely looking for greener pastures as a result (leading to a longer rebuild).

Atlanta spent all their cap space on good but unexceptional players who were dodgy fits next to their young stars Trae Young and John Collins. All offensive orientated role players who lack the defense to protect Trae Young except for Capela who is a paint clogger who makes Collins' life more difficult. Bad team construction. Again, prioritizing immediate gain instead of building a title winning team.

Both teams will be bitten in their asses for these decisions.

[Tr1boy]

Neither. They both sold out their futures for short term gains.

Phoenix went all in on an injury prone overpaid 35yo PG despite not being good enough to win a title. Tiny window to make this work followed by a huge regression. Then a difficult rebuild around two young stars with one of those stars (D.Booker) likely looking for greener pastures as a result (leading to a longer rebuild).

Atlanta spent all their cap space on good but unexceptional players who were dodgy fits next to their young stars Trae Young and John Collins. All offensive orientated role players who lack the defense to protect Trae Young except for Capela who is a paint clogger who makes Collins' life more difficult. Bad team construction. Again, prioritizing immediate gain instead of building a title winning team.

Both teams will be bitten in their asses for these decisions.

oh come on

Suns future 1sts are near at the bottom, value wise.   Even without Paul they will be fine.... but we will see. You could be right

Hawks have Capela and Okongwu to be the defensive bailouts for the team.   But again we will see what happens next round

[BMark]

Neither. They both sold out their futures for short term gains.

Phoenix went all in on an injury prone overpaid 35yo PG despite not being good enough to win a title. Tiny window to make this work followed by a huge regression. Then a difficult rebuild around two young stars with one of those stars (D.Booker) likely looking for greener pastures as a result (leading to a longer rebuild).

Atlanta spent all their cap space on good but unexceptional players who were dodgy fits next to their young stars Trae Young and John Collins. All offensive orientated role players who lack the defense to protect Trae Young except for Capela who is a paint clogger who makes Collins' life more difficult. Bad team construction. Again, prioritizing immediate gain instead of building a title winning team.

Both teams will be bitten in their asses for these decisions.

oh come on

Suns future 1sts are near at the bottom, value wise.   Even without Paul they will be fine.... but we will see. You could be right

Hawks have Capela and Okongwu to be the defensive bailouts for the team.   But again we will see what happens next round

The Hawks have DeAndre Hunter, who is an excellent perimeter defender.  The Hawks have very good balance re youth v. veterans, offensive v. defensive players.

I think the Suns took on Paul's salary to placate Booker. That having been said, I did not expect the Suns to be a contender so quickly.

It shows how important a pass first distributor is to a team with good young wing talent.

[Tr1boy]

Neither. They both sold out their futures for short term gains.

Phoenix went all in on an injury prone overpaid 35yo PG despite not being good enough to win a title. Tiny window to make this work followed by a huge regression. Then a difficult rebuild around two young stars with one of those stars (D.Booker) likely looking for greener pastures as a result (leading to a longer rebuild).

Atlanta spent all their cap space on good but unexceptional players who were dodgy fits next to their young stars Trae Young and John Collins. All offensive orientated role players who lack the defense to protect Trae Young except for Capela who is a paint clogger who makes Collins' life more difficult. Bad team construction. Again, prioritizing immediate gain instead of building a title winning team.

Both teams will be bitten in their asses for these decisions.

oh come on

Suns future 1sts are near at the bottom, value wise.   Even without Paul they will be fine.... but we will see. You could be right

Hawks have Capela and Okongwu to be the defensive bailouts for the team.   But again we will see what happens next round

The Hawks have DeAndre Hunter, who is an excellent perimeter defender.  The Hawks have very good balance re youth v. veterans, offensive v. defensive players.

I think the Suns took on Paul's salary to placate Booker. That having been said, I did not expect the Suns to be a contender so quickly.

It shows how important a pass first distributor is to a team with good young wing talent.

Good points

Huerter is not a bad defender also

Hunter is long

A smart team though should pick on Young. Post him up.... I know Heat would

Suns are still riding that bubble wave

[Celtics2021]

Neither. They both sold out their futures for short term gains.

Phoenix went all in on an injury prone overpaid 35yo PG despite not being good enough to win a title. Tiny window to make this work followed by a huge regression. Then a difficult rebuild around two young stars with one of those stars (D.Booker) likely looking for greener pastures as a result (leading to a longer rebuild).

Atlanta spent all their cap space on good but unexceptional players who were dodgy fits next to their young stars Trae Young and John Collins. All offensive orientated role players who lack the defense to protect Trae Young except for Capela who is a paint clogger who makes Collins' life more difficult. Bad team construction. Again, prioritizing immediate gain instead of building a title winning team.

Both teams will be bitten in their asses for these decisions.

The Suns would trade pick #29 to have the #2 seed in the playoffs and advance to the second round 100 times out of 100, and so should every organization that hasn't been the playoffs in a decade, and almost any organization period.  There's zero way to look back at the move the Suns made and say "Oh, they'll regret it."   When the trade was made initially, it looked like Phoenix was leaning in too much to their bubble success, but they clearly made the right call.

[PhoSita]

I would say Hawks, but then again they made the playoffs in a season in which many teams were decimated by injuries, and they were lucky enough to face a very weak playoff opponent in round 1.


I think the Suns, Hawks, and Jazz all demonstrate the great value of having high level pick and roll guard play combined with a starting center who can protect the rim, set picks, board, rim-run, and finish.  Portland also falls into that category.

That formula won't get you that far necessarily on its own.  But it gives you a really high floor.

[Who]

Phoenix reminds me of Denver when they traded for Chauncey Billups. I knew right then and said so at the time that this was the end of Melo in Denver.

Denver had gone all-in on an older playmate for Melo to join forces with & the rest of their supporting cast was older (like Kenyon Martin) and in decline. The team was still one piece shy of being a title winner level team and had no trade assets good enough to get that final piece.

So my thinking was that within a few years, Billups and Kenyon would be too old and need to be replaced. The Nuggets would have limited avenues to replace them. Melo would be smack-bam in his prime and be asked to start a major rebuilding phase. That is a tough ask for a franchise player in that stage of his career and after a few seasons of nearly-but-not-there basketball. The title was close; he just couldn't get his hands on it. And now, the franchise is asking him to rebuild and waste several years of his prime? Terrible decision.

Billups was an improvement over Iverson both as an individual player and also in terms of the team's needs. They needed that steady hand. Billups was clearly going to be a big upgrade for them (like CP3 is for Phoenix) and pump them up for a low seed 1 and done playoff team to a high seed that is one step below the mighty Lakers (Kobe & Pau years).

The give and the take.

Billups would give them instant improvement and make them a legit 2nd tier team in the West behind the Lakers.

The cost was that they (1) weren't quite good enough to take out the best of the best (2) did not have the trade assets required to make that one final move that would make them good enough to beat the best of the best (3) would have to rebuild in the middle of Melo's prime to replace aging players.


---------------------------------


Now Phoenix is not exactly the same as Denver. They do have some other good things going for them. And some worse things.

Good things

(1) DeAndre Ayton is an emerging young player with potential to become a star. If he does, that should be enough to convince Booker to stay and rebuild post-CP3. However, if he does not become a star and is instead an above average starter, I believe Booker will force his way out and leave the Suns.

(2) CP3 is the only old guy that is part of their core. In Denver, it was Chauncey and Kenyon Martin. Easier to replace one key guys than two key guys.

The Bad

(1) CP3 is older and more injury prone than Billups. Billups was 32. CP3 was 35 (now 36). CP3 has been injury prone. Not just the missed games but often hobbled / reduced come playoff time by multiple nagging injuries. He has the game to age well but not the body.

(2) Outside of Mikal Bridges, the Suns supporting cast does not seem to have anybody else of major value / significance to build around long term. Also, they do not seem to have many alternate trade assets for upgrades.