I think we are in for many years of futility...

[CBS_Take a Report]

The treadmill of trying to attract max contract players continues to spin and we struck out on our last 3 (Irving/Hayward/Walker) for a multitude of reasons (Culture/Injury/Talent).

I think quite honestly we are stuck with the current personnel. We ride or die on Tatum/Brown/Timelord in the hopes that who we surround them with can make us competitive.

I just don’t see a faster way out of this mess.

[wdleehi]

Tatum, Brown (and Williams if he stays healthy) to build around is not an issue.   That is far from a mess.

And I still don't see a reason they can't get back to what they were the season before.  This team needs a reset, not a restart.   They need to build up the role players and adjust the fit.   

[Celtics4ever]

Improving the bench should be doable to some degree given how poorly it has played all year.

[CFAN38]

Tatum, Brown (and Williams if he stays healthy) to build around is not an issue.   That is far from a mess.

And I still don't see a reason they can't get back to what they were the season before.  This team needs a reset, not a restart.   They need to build up the role players and adjust the fit.

I agree, the general panic around this team is really misguided. Tatum and Brown are two young improving all-stars who at + sized wings fill a premium roster position. Having those two healthy is a great foundation and locks this team in as a perennial 5-8 seed.

[Who]

Yeah, there is a pretty good chance of this.

I remind myself not to be too down about our team's future because we still have Jaylen and Tatum which is a huge foundation to build upon.

But at a certain point that window will start to close and not because of old age but because they become unhappy with the team's lack of progress and inability to offer them a chance to truly compete for a title.

Now we are not at that point yet and I do not think it is too close ... but, I also do not think this team has the assets to make any major improvements in the near future so this will take a longer term build to put talent around Tatum & Jaylen. And by that point, they will be older and closer to questioning whether their futures are here or not. And if Ainge does not get everything 100% correct in this next rebuild, the risk of Jaylen or Tatum deciding to look elsewhere for their futures will rise considerably.

So there is eh uncomfortableness to this situation. It is not problematic yet ... but those problems are not that far away either. Especially given how long a road the Celtics have to climb to improve their roster to the point of title contention.

We are in this moment where we are in between hope and despair and it could go either way. More like limbo.

I believe we are in limbo. Waiting to learn our fate. Good chance of the news being good (title contender) or bad (years of futility). Say 50-50. It is getting edgy. It used to just be positive. Pure positivity. It is not that anymore. The warning signs are here and they are getting bigger. 

[SparzWizard]

Years of futility as in years of becoming the next Atlanta Hawks? Make playoffs every year and never make NBA finals? Sounds like that's what's been happening!

[PhoSita]

Yeah, there is a pretty good chance of this.

I remind myself not to be too down about our team's future because we still have Jaylen and Tatum which is a huge foundation to build upon.

But at a certain point that window will start to close and not because of old age but because they become unhappy with the team's lack of progress and inability to offer them a chance to truly compete for a title.

Now we are not at that point yet and I do not think it is too close ... but, I also do not think this team has the assets to make any major improvements in the near future so this will take a longer term build to put talent around Tatum & Jaylen. And by that point, they will be older and closer to questioning whether their futures are here or not. And if Ainge does not get everything 100% correct in this next rebuild, the risk of Jaylen or Tatum deciding to look elsewhere for their futures will rise considerably.

So there is eh uncomfortableness to this situation. It is not problematic yet ... but those problems are not that far away either. Especially given how long a road the Celtics have to climb to improve their roster to the point of title contention.

We are in this moment where we are in between hope and despair and it could go either way. More like limbo.

I believe we are in limbo. Waiting to learn our fate. Good chance of the news being good (title contender) or bad (years of futility). Say 50-50. It is getting edgy. It used to just be positive. Pure positivity. It is not that anymore. The warning signs are here and they are getting bigger.

This is all really well said.

I vacillate between feeling really down about the team (bummer year + thinking about how much things have changed since 2017/2018) and reminding myself that many, many teams in the league would happily switch rosters / draft assets with the Celtics.

I look at how the Nets were built and my mind immediately jumps to thinking about how long it might be before Tatum and/or Brown is asking out.  This is 100% projection, but I can't help wondering what effect it has on guys like Tatum and Brown playing on a team that's been put together mostly through the draft and a little bit through trade to see phallus-heads like Kyrie, Harden, and Durant quit on their teams and join up in a big city, basically side-stepping all of the hard work of team building / getting used to teammates, fitting into a coach's system, etc.  Why do the hard work if you don't have to?


You're totally right that it's too soon to worry about that. We have at least a couple years.  There are ways to build out of the current situation.  The Celts could easily be a feel good story again next year, cruising through a 1st round series with a very good chance of knocking out a contender (rematch with Brooklyn?  Philly part 3?) in the second round.  But it no longer feels like a guarantee.  Especially since we've seen Ainge & Co. kind of fumble things / fail to figure it out the last few years.


Right now in this moment I'm feeling a lot of bitterness seeing the Lakers and Nets succeed when it feels like they didn't earn that success in what I consider to be the "right" way.  I hate seeing big market teams take shortcuts.  The Nets are the worst in that respect because the players involved are odious on a personal level, and I don't enjoy watching them.

I'm also feeling a lot of jealousy for fans of teams like the Mavs (Luka is so fun) and even the Grizz / Hawks / Knicks (I remember when the Celtics were the scrappy young upstart team winning dramatic games that people expected them to lose).


I know Brad is not really a beloved figure anymore/right now, but at times like these I think it's best to remember one of his favorite lines: Don't get too high or too low.

[j804]

Yeah, there is a pretty good chance of this.

I remind myself not to be too down about our team's future because we still have Jaylen and Tatum which is a huge foundation to build upon.

But at a certain point that window will start to close and not because of old age but because they become unhappy with the team's lack of progress and inability to offer them a chance to truly compete for a title.

Now we are not at that point yet and I do not think it is too close ... but, I also do not think this team has the assets to make any major improvements in the near future so this will take a longer term build to put talent around Tatum & Jaylen. And by that point, they will be older and closer to questioning whether their futures are here or not. And if Ainge does not get everything 100% correct in this next rebuild, the risk of Jaylen or Tatum deciding to look elsewhere for their futures will rise considerably.

So there is eh uncomfortableness to this situation. It is not problematic yet ... but those problems are not that far away either. Especially given how long a road the Celtics have to climb to improve their roster to the point of title contention.

We are in this moment where we are in between hope and despair and it could go either way. More like limbo.

I believe we are in limbo. Waiting to learn our fate. Good chance of the news being good (title contender) or bad (years of futility). Say 50-50. It is getting edgy. It used to just be positive. Pure positivity. It is not that anymore. The warning signs are here and they are getting bigger.

This is all really well said.

I vacillate between feeling really down about the team (bummer year + thinking about how much things have changed since 2017/2018) and reminding myself that many, many teams in the league would happily switch rosters / draft assets with the Celtics.

I look at how the Nets were built and my mind immediately jumps to thinking about how long it might be before Tatum and/or Brown is asking out.  This is 100% projection, but I can't help wondering what effect it has on guys like Tatum and Brown playing on a team that's been put together mostly through the draft and a little bit through trade to see phallus-heads like Kyrie, Harden, and Durant quit on their teams and join up in a big city, basically side-stepping all of the hard work of team building / getting used to teammates, fitting into a coach's system, etc.  Why do the hard work if you don't have to?


You're totally right that it's too soon to worry about that. We have at least a couple years.  There are ways to build out of the current situation.  The Celts could easily be a feel good story again next year, cruising through a 1st round series with a very good chance of knocking out a contender (rematch with Brooklyn?  Philly part 3?) in the second round.  But it no longer feels like a guarantee.  Especially since we've seen Ainge & Co. kind of fumble things / fail to figure it out the last few years.


Right now in this moment I'm feeling a lot of bitterness seeing the Lakers and Nets succeed when it feels like they didn't earn that success in what I consider to be the "right" way.  I hate seeing big market teams take shortcuts.  The Nets are the worst in that respect because the players involved are odious on a personal level, and I don't enjoy watching them.

I'm also feeling a lot of jealousy for fans of teams like the Mavs (Luka is so fun) and even the Grizz / Hawks / Knicks (I remember when the Celtics were the scrappy young upstart team winning dramatic games that people expected them to lose).


I know Brad is not really a beloved figure anymore/right now, but at times like these I think it's best to remember one of his favorite lines: Don't get too high or too low.

Our best hope is Tatum/Jaylen convincing and recruiting guys from around their class to come here like a Donovan Mitchell. I know it goes against what the basis of your post is but talent wins out in the end guys recruit and it is what it is need them to pull some strings

[PhoSita]

Our best hope is Tatum/Jaylen convincing and recruiting guys from around their class to come here like a Donovan Mitchell. I know it goes against what the basis of your post is but talent wins out in the end guys recruit and it is what it is need them to pull some strings

You may be right.  Let's hope they're pulling strings to get guys to come here instead of pulling strings to end up together on some other team.

[Walker Wiggle]

Only Celtics fans can look at a squad with two of the best young players and in the league, already all-stars yet still years away from their primes, and conclude “all is lost”.

[Roy H.]

Only Celtics fans can look at a squad with two of the best young players and in the league, already all-stars yet still years away from their primes, and conclude “all is lost”.

Agreed.  I wish we'd never made the Kyrie trade, but we're in a good spot.  There are about 25 franchises worse off than we are.

[SHAQATTACK]

It’s all about the open door policy of a franchise. ....one that lets top talent gather their friends and build a team .....basically doing a GM job at putting together the main stars .....the GM and coach fill the 4-15 positions.

That’s what Nets and Lakers are doing ....please walk in and build us a team , pick a coach ...somebody you ll like.

The old way of scratch building is dang near impossible long as Lakers allow players to come in bring their buddy list and hire every star in the nba .

I don’t believe Celtics will ever build a from scratch team again , unless they tank for a special generational player like Lebron. .    Top players will,not be told where to play anymore ,  Yusuf have to give them GM input or else they will,leave and find their buddies. 

I think Celtics are lost in front end Mgmt today ....they don’t want to pass enough control .....and players see this today....not the same as 15 years ago

[tenn_smoothie]

Tatum, Brown (and Williams if he stays healthy) to build around is not an issue.   That is far from a mess.

And I still don't see a reason they can't get back to what they were the season before.  This team needs a reset, not a restart.   They need to build up the role players and adjust the fit.

Agreed. We do need the right kind of veterans to build around our young stars.
Keep Pritchard and Nesmith and let the rest of the young guys go.

Unfortunately, I have become convinced that Brad Stevens is not the coach anymore for this team.
They need a new voice and a stronger hand to guide them. I'll bet some of our players would welcome that.

[tenn_smoothie]

Tatum, Brown (and Williams if he stays healthy) to build around is not an issue.   That is far from a mess.

And I still don't see a reason they can't get back to what they were the season before.  This team needs a reset, not a restart.   They need to build up the role players and adjust the fit.

I agree, the general panic around this team is really misguided. Tatum and Brown are two young improving all-stars who at + sized wings fill a premium roster position. Having those two healthy is a great foundation and locks this team in as a perennial 5-8 seed.

A perennial 5 - 8 seed ?

Hopefully, our goal is much higher than that scenario.

[Celtics4ever]

Our best hope is that Tatum and Rob look in the mirror and work harder than they ever worked before and they takes one more leap of improvement. I do not see this happening with Jaylen due the injury.  Rob should rest for a month to heal and work to prevent those injuries with a trainer.  Get Kevin to teach him a few post moves.

I wish we'd never made the Kyrie trade, but we're in a good spot.

Me too, this lead the panic move that was Kemba.   But most of us would be lying if we said we would not have pulled the trigger at the time.   

Ainge needs to cut loose the non-producing bench, and use the bench more to supplement his starters than a orphanage for projects and good guys who have faults.   Most of the guys have big flaws, too slow, too weak, too short, etc.  I think he gambled on a lot of these guys and got burnt.

Try to get more athletic.   Athletes can develop skill more than non athletes can develop athleticism.