It’s time to back off of Jayson Tatum

[gouki88]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

[Ogaju]

Brooks post-game:

"He's not a great young player, he's a great player. And he's gonna be an MVP in this league soon."

He's coached 3 MVPs.

He also said the other day that Russell Westbrook was the 2nd greatest point guard in NBA history, after Magic Johnson.

I hope JT becomes an MVP.  I don't see it, not yet. But I hope he proves me wrong.  I think he is a phenomenal talent.  I forget how young he still is.  He is an impressive guy on and off the court. 

My criticism of him this season was what Mike Gorman's was; that he had a tendency this season to ball stop, and it hurt our flow. He would also complain about non calls and not get back on defense a lot.   I think it has gotten better the last couple of weeks, including last night. 

No one in their right mind is going to criticize a player who just 50 points to lead his team to a play in victory. I was on the game thread periodically, did not notice criticisms of him.  Probably in the 2nd quarter when things started going south?

Don’t stress about it. When a player like Tatum goes off it is not unusual to get this type of thread. That shouldn’t stop you from being a fan, which includes telling your piece when a player stinks up the joint.

[Moranis]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

[gouki88]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

While true, '08 KG is likely better than anything Tatum will be unless he hits 50/40/90 type efficiency over the course of a season or gets better defensively. Those things are possible given his youth and development so far, but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-3 player in the league

[gift]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

While true, '08 KG is likely better than anything Tatum will be unless he hits 50/40/90 type efficiency over the course of a season or gets better defensively. Those things are possible given his youth and development so far, but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-3 player in the league

To be fair, it's only unlikely because one season is in the past and Tatum's potential is in the future. KG at Tatum's age was full of potential, but wasn't guaranteed to become an MVP or top 5 player either. It's mathematically unlikely for any player, but there isn't anything about Tatum in particular that prevents an MVP future for him.

[RJ87]

Am I the only one both surprised and annoyed by the criticism that Tatum gets, particularly in the game threads?

I was following along last night prior to halftime, and the level of criticism directed toward this kid was disproportionate. I don’t think it represents a majority of the Fanbase, but it seems like if he makes four great plays followed by two bad ones, the critics sharpen their vocal knives.

It’s probably the nature of the fanhood beast, but to me it just doesn’t makes sense that people go out of their way to criticize him.  Tatum is already way better then I imagined he would be when we drafted him. There is a legitimate argument that he’s already better than Paul Pierce ever was, and Pierce is in the pantheon of Celtics.

Just cut him some slack and enjoy his game. The kid just dropped 50 points in a playoff game, and there isn’t a thread about his performance anywhere.  We are watching the maturation of the best homegrown Celtic probably since Bird.  Celebrate the young man!

It doesn’t. There are maybe a half dozen people that post on this site that seem to think/want Jaylen to be the best player on the team and they try to pick apart Tatums game. We are incredibly lucky as a fanbase to have both JT and JB. Tatum Is becoming a transcendent talent.

This is an interesting dynamic I've noticed as well. Not just here either, but also on Twitter and Reddit.

[Moranis]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

While true, '08 KG is likely better than anything Tatum will be unless he hits 50/40/90 type efficiency over the course of a season or gets better defensively. Those things are possible given his youth and development so far, but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-3 player in the league

To be fair, it's only unlikely because one season is in the past and Tatum's potential is in the future. KG at Tatum's age was full of potential, but wasn't guaranteed to become an MVP or top 5 player either. It's mathematically unlikely for any player, but there isn't anything about Tatum in particular that prevents an MVP future for him.

To further that point, in KG's 4th year (he turned 23 in May just after that season ended) he made the first of his All NBA Teams as a 3rd Team Member.  He got a few MVP votes and finished 10th.  However, the very next year (year 5 when he was 23 turning 24 in May) he finished 2nd in MVP voting and was 1st Team All NBA and 1st Team All Defense. 

That is actually pretty close to historical trends, especially with the guys that started younger, i.e. around year 5 or 6 is when the true greats really start to put it together.  So next year or the year after, really should be the time when we really start to know what Tatum will end up looking like.

[Moranis]

Am I the only one both surprised and annoyed by the criticism that Tatum gets, particularly in the game threads?

I was following along last night prior to halftime, and the level of criticism directed toward this kid was disproportionate. I don’t think it represents a majority of the Fanbase, but it seems like if he makes four great plays followed by two bad ones, the critics sharpen their vocal knives.

It’s probably the nature of the fanhood beast, but to me it just doesn’t makes sense that people go out of their way to criticize him.  Tatum is already way better then I imagined he would be when we drafted him. There is a legitimate argument that he’s already better than Paul Pierce ever was, and Pierce is in the pantheon of Celtics.

Just cut him some slack and enjoy his game. The kid just dropped 50 points in a playoff game, and there isn’t a thread about his performance anywhere.  We are watching the maturation of the best homegrown Celtic probably since Bird.  Celebrate the young man!

It doesn’t. There are maybe a half dozen people that post on this site that seem to think/want Jaylen to be the best player on the team and they try to pick apart Tatums game. We are incredibly lucky as a fanbase to have both JT and JB. Tatum Is becoming a transcendent talent.

This is interesting dynamic I've noticed as well. Not just here either, but also on Twitter and Reddit.

and I just don't get it.  Tatum is pretty clearly the best player on the team.  It isn't even all that close. 

[Erik]

This is a fan problem. Specifically Celtics fan problem. Specifically some of the fans on this board.

The success or failure of the Celtics has minimal impact on all of our lives. Just enjoy what we are fortunate to have.

[Jiri Welsch]

Certain players are often mirror images of people's personalities and Tatum definitely is one of them.

There's a 22 year old All-Star on the team that seems to have the potential to be a top 5 player. Whether that makes you happy or mad on a night-to-night basis is totally within your choosing.

[Somebody]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

While true, '08 KG is likely better than anything Tatum will be unless he hits 50/40/90 type efficiency over the course of a season or gets better defensively. Those things are possible given his youth and development so far, but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-3 player in the league

To be fair, it's only unlikely because one season is in the past and Tatum's potential is in the future. KG at Tatum's age was full of potential, but wasn't guaranteed to become an MVP or top 5 player either. It's mathematically unlikely for any player, but there isn't anything about Tatum in particular that prevents an MVP future for him.

To further that point, in KG's 4th year (he turned 23 in May just after that season ended) he made the first of his All NBA Teams as a 3rd Team Member.  He got a few MVP votes and finished 10th.  However, the very next year (year 5 when he was 23 turning 24 in May) he finished 2nd in MVP voting and was 1st Team All NBA and 1st Team All Defense. 

That is actually pretty close to historical trends, especially with the guys that started younger, i.e. around year 5 or 6 is when the true greats really start to put it together.  So next year or the year after, really should be the time when we really start to know what Tatum will end up looking like.

Only in terms of accolades for KG. He was a very similar player in both years both in box and non-box metrics and only jumped up a level in '03 and '04. But he was putting together monster seasons worthy of MVP awards from 2000 onwards if not for some insane peaks during that timespan that only his very own peak could've matched (eg. 2000-2002 Shaq, 2002-2003 Duncan).

Meanwhile Tatum really isn't close to that level and I'm not sure if he ever will be even as he continues to refine his game - KG was a transcendent talent.

[PhoSita]

This is a fan problem. Specifically Celtics fan problem. Specifically some of the fans on this board.

The success or failure of the Celtics has minimal impact on all of our lives. Just enjoy what we are fortunate to have.

I'm certain this type of phenomenon is not unique to Celtics fans.

[RockinRyA]

Even though the 50pts was great yesterday...and Celts needed it. 
Even Brad wanted to see more ball movement (post game presser)

Hey Brad - if you want more ball movement, then demand it and hold players accountable instead of talking about what you would like your players to do in the post-game.

You are the head coach, so you get to do that !!!!!

How do you know he's not doing that already? Oh right, you don't. You have 0 evidence in your extremely biased claim

[Moranis]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.

Sorry, meant home-grown. Will concede that KG was a level above, chiefly because of his defence being levels above anything Tatum will ever do on that end.

Yeah, but Boston had that KG for just one playoff run.  After he got hurt in year 2 in Boston, he was no where near the same player (which is also why Boston didn't win any more).

While true, '08 KG is likely better than anything Tatum will be unless he hits 50/40/90 type efficiency over the course of a season or gets better defensively. Those things are possible given his youth and development so far, but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-3 player in the league

To be fair, it's only unlikely because one season is in the past and Tatum's potential is in the future. KG at Tatum's age was full of potential, but wasn't guaranteed to become an MVP or top 5 player either. It's mathematically unlikely for any player, but there isn't anything about Tatum in particular that prevents an MVP future for him.

To further that point, in KG's 4th year (he turned 23 in May just after that season ended) he made the first of his All NBA Teams as a 3rd Team Member.  He got a few MVP votes and finished 10th.  However, the very next year (year 5 when he was 23 turning 24 in May) he finished 2nd in MVP voting and was 1st Team All NBA and 1st Team All Defense. 

That is actually pretty close to historical trends, especially with the guys that started younger, i.e. around year 5 or 6 is when the true greats really start to put it together.  So next year or the year after, really should be the time when we really start to know what Tatum will end up looking like.

Only in terms of accolades for KG. He was a very similar player in both years both in box and non-box metrics and only jumped up a level in '03 and '04. But he was putting together monster seasons worthy of MVP awards from 2000 onwards if not for some insane peaks during that timespan that only his very own peak could've matched (eg. 2000-2002 Shaq, 2002-2003 Duncan).

Meanwhile Tatum really isn't close to that level and I'm not sure if he ever will be even as he continues to refine his game - KG was a transcendent talent.

Similar?  His shooting efficiency sky rocketed, his PPG, RPG, and APG were all better in 2000 and in some cases by a decent amount.  His WS/48 went from .146 to .172.  His VORP went from 3.3 to 6.8.  KG took a pretty big jump from the conclusion of the 99 season to the conclusion of the 00 season, which is why he went from 3rd Team All NBA to 1st Team All NBA, 1st Team Defense and 2nd in MVP voting.  He peaked in 04, but he made great strides from year 4 to year 5.

[LilRip]

I’m a huge Pierce fan and he’s my all time fave player (or at least top 3) but I think Tatum’s already better than or equal to prime Pierce in almost every aspect of the game except:
1) clutch shot making
2) drawing fouls
3) finishing inside
4) trash talking

I know Tatum’s made some clutch shots but until he can say “I called game!” in an interview, I don’t know how he can unseat the captain there.