It’s time to back off of Jayson Tatum

[colincb]

Some of the criticism was from me.  Specifically, I mentioned that Tatum's lack of physicality is one of my biggest beefs remaining with his game.  I stand by that statement.

He doesn't like having to body up guys.  He doesn't box out much, and an extremely high percentage of his rebounds are uncontested.  On defense, he uses his length effectively, but often when his assignment is to help down into the paint then he doesn't like to put his chest between a guy and the rim.  On offense, he's getting better about aggressively attacking the paint but I still think he settles for tough fadeaways over smaller defenders too often. 

All of that doesn't mean that I dislike Tatum.  By all accounts he's a very good person, he's a special player, and he's probably our most talented pure scorer since Bird.  The kid just took on the league's most prolific triple-double machine in history, along with the second-best scorer in the NBA this season, and absolutely murdered them live on television in a must-win game.  I give him all the credit in the world for that.  But there are still some things that I still want him to be better at.

Danny needs to get a PF and stop playing the kid out of position.

I think that is the biggest problem with the team.  Your best player should be playing his best position.  And Tatum is at his best at SF.  The problem with that is of course the 2nd best player is also at his best at SF, the 3rd best player is a PG, and the 4th and 5th best players are also wings.  Now without Brown some of that clutter is resolved, but the simple reality is, Tatum is a SF and should absolutely be playing there 90-% of the team.  The team just doesn't have a PF and needs one badly.

Moranis, you and Riki have vast knowledge about basketball. This question is for both of you and anyone that wants to chime in..I saw a draft projection with Cs drafting a point guard with Usman Garuba on the board. Have you seen this Garuba kid play and should Cs be picking another guard with him available?

Here's a list from Tankathon comparing the PFs that could be available to us. I haven't seen any of them play, but by the numbers, Garumba wouldn't be one of the guys I would be looking at.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=greg-brown--usman-garuba--isaiah-jackson--kai-jones--filip-petrusev

[Ogaju]

Will Isaiah Jackson be there at #16? Can either Jackson or Garuba shoot?

[tenn_smoothie]

Point taken, Roy.

My problem with Tatum is that his increasing domination of the ball almost removes, offensively, the other players on the court. Sure he has big scoring games, but often the rest of the team does not play well. He does not make those around him better the way Bird did. Of course, part of this problem falls on Stevens.

[nyceltsfan]

Point taken, Roy.

My problem with Tatum is that his increasing domination of the ball almost removes, offensively, the other players on the court. Sure he has big scoring games, but often the rest of the team does not play well. He does not make those around him better the way Bird did. Of course, part of this problem falls on Stevens.

He is not Larry Bird, nor is anyone else who played in the league.  However, I do want to note that now is the time for Tatum to be assertive and dominate the ball.  It worked last night and if he has to drag the entire team on his back, given the fact that there is only one other scorer that will get minutes, so be it.  I did notice that when Washington finally woke up (way too late in the game) and started to double team Tatum midway through the 4th quarter, Tatum was decisive and gave up the ball, which usually resulted in open shots.  He is making the right plays, knowing when the defense will allow him to play iso vs. double-teaming.  He is growing up and this experience will make him a better player.

That being said, I fully expect at least one or two horrid shooting nights from Tatum this series, as he simply cannot be that hot for an entire series.  That is when we will miss Brown the most.

Overall, I agree with the OP.  Tatum has earned our praise and he is looking like a franchise cornerstone if we can keep him happy and if he can stay healthy.

[No Nickname]

I think people underestimate the flaws of other teams' star players. All players are flawed. When you follow a player closely and your team isn't winning, those flaws become magnified.

This... but also ... lets face it he didnt have a very good regular season

Covid was a problem. But also growing pains trying to become a leader

Even though the 50pts was great yesterday...and Celts needed it.  Even Brad wanted to see more ball movement (post game presser)

As the game slows down even more for Tatum...hopefully his assist numbers will improve

Btw .. yesterday was his best D performance I have seen out of him. I guess he saves it for the postseason.

I think is one of the biggest complaints folks have.  Pierce was an underrated passer. 

Tatum is amazing but he's a black hole that rarely passes. It all comes down to the overall well-rounded game for some folks.  If he's missing, he becomes one-dimensional (just a scorer, albeit a pretty amazing one).

[footey]

Brooks post-game:

"He's not a great young player, he's a great player. And he's gonna be an MVP in this league soon."

He's coached 3 MVPs.

He also said the other day that Russell Westbrook was the 2nd greatest point guard in NBA history, after Magic Johnson.

I hope JT becomes an MVP.  I don't see it, not yet. But I hope he proves me wrong.  I think he is a phenomenal talent.  I forget how young he still is.  He is an impressive guy on and off the court. 

My criticism of him this season was what Mike Gorman's was; that he had a tendency this season to ball stop, and it hurt our flow. He would also complain about non calls and not get back on defense a lot.   I think it has gotten better the last couple of weeks, including last night. 

No one in their right mind is going to criticize a player who just 50 points to lead his team to a play in victory. I was on the game thread periodically, did not notice criticisms of him.  Probably in the 2nd quarter when things started going south? 

[Atzar]

Brooks post-game:

"He's not a great young player, he's a great player. And he's gonna be an MVP in this league soon."

He's coached 3 MVPs.

He also said the other day that Russell Westbrook was the 2nd greatest point guard in NBA history, after Magic Johnson.

I hope JT becomes an MVP.  I don't see it, not yet. But I hope he proves me wrong.  I think he is a phenomenal talent.  I forget how young he still is.  He is an impressive guy on and off the court. 

My criticism of him this season was what Mike Gorman's was; that he had a tendency this season to ball stop, and it hurt our flow. He would also complain about non calls and not get back on defense a lot.   I think it has gotten better the last couple of weeks, including last night. 

No one in their right mind is going to criticize a player who just 50 points to lead his team to a play in victory. I was on the game thread periodically, did not notice criticisms of him.  Probably in the 2nd quarter when things started going south?

Frankly, I don't think there was much criticism of Tatum last night at all.  A few people went after Smart for some of his threes, and there was some general grousing in the second quarter when the game was going sideways for us, but very few critical/negative comments were directed at Tatum.  I was probably among the harshest, which is why I chose to respond to this thread, but I don't believe anything I said was unfair, either.  I didn't attack him.  I was not inflammatory or insulting. 

Having said that, I have seen people go after him (and Brown, and especially Kemba - he gets it even when he plays well) in game threads in the past, so I know it does happen. 

[SHAQATTACK]

I    ....100,000,000,000 ,000 % agree will Roy .  I ve been hot about people riding him in such a cruel manner .

Without Jason we d be in the worst world of hurt imaginable.  He is a fine young man and to have had the bad COVID , which attackes your primary organs he is amazing to be playing at all.

And while I’m on a rant , how about the negative Nancy’s laying off Jaylen Brown as well.  He has given his all every minute I ve watched and still I hear moans and belly aching , he needs to do this and that .

[nickagneta]

I think people underestimate the flaws of other teams' star players. All players are flawed. When you follow a player closely and your team isn't winning, those flaws become magnified.

This... but also ... lets face it he didnt have a very good regular season

Covid was a problem. But also growing pains trying to become a leader

Even though the 50pts was great yesterday...and Celts needed it.  Even Brad wanted to see more ball movement (post game presser)

As the game slows down even more for Tatum...hopefully his assist numbers will improve

Btw .. yesterday was his best D performance I have seen out of him. I guess he saves it for the postseason.

I think is one of the biggest complaints folks have.  Pierce was an underrated passer. 

Tatum is amazing but he's a black hole that rarely passes. It all comes down to the overall well-rounded game for some folks.  If he's missing, he becomes one-dimensional (just a scorer, albeit a pretty amazing one).

Pierce didn't have over 4 assists a game until he was 25 when he had 4.4.

Tatum just had 4.3 assists per game in his age 23 year.

Perhaps not comparing a 23 year old Tatum to an in his prime Pierce is warranted here. Compare then at the same age and Tatum is miles ahead of what Pierce was at the same age....and that includes creating for others.

[Roy H.]

People forget how young 23 is.  Larry Bird was 23 midway through his rookie season.

[gouki88]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Not bad.

[colincb]

Basketball Reference bball_ref 6h

Yesterday was Jayson Tatum's third 50-point game this year. According to @Stathead, the only players in NBA history to have more 50-point games in a season (regular season, playoffs, and play-in combined) at Tatum's age or younger are Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain

Tatum's been flashing franchise-player level talent repeatedly this season despite having COVID and long-COVID. He just turned 23, has 3 years before he even enters his prime, and is well on his way to being a top 5 talent.

From the Ringer:

“When it’s all said and done, he’ll be one thousand times better than me.” —Bradley Beal on Jayson Tatum

[tenn_smoothie]

Even though the 50pts was great yesterday...and Celts needed it. 
Even Brad wanted to see more ball movement (post game presser)

Hey Brad - if you want more ball movement, then demand it and hold players accountable instead of talking about what you would like your players to do in the post-game.

You are the head coach, so you get to do that !!!!!

[gouki88]

Basketball Reference bball_ref 6h

Yesterday was Jayson Tatum's third 50-point game this year. According to @Stathead, the only players in NBA history to have more 50-point games in a season (regular season, playoffs, and play-in combined) at Tatum's age or younger are Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain

Tatum's been flashing franchise-player level talent repeatedly this season despite having COVID and long-COVID. He just turned 23, has 3 years before he even enters his prime, and is well on his way to being a top 5 talent.

From the Ringer:

“When it’s all said and done, he’ll be one thousand times better than me.” —Bradley Beal on Jayson Tatum

Man, how forgotten about is Rick Barry when it comes to old stars not getting their due?

Not a bad group to be a part of.

[tenn_smoothie]

Yeah, he's our best player in the last couple of decades. I'm pretty happy with him.

Since April (23 games) he's averaged 29.6PPG, 8.3RPG, 4.2APG, and has rough shooting splits of 48/40/87 shooting while getting to the free throw line about 7 times a game. Those numbers are almost identical to Kevin Durant's averages in his All-Star seasons of 28/7/5 on 50/39/89 shooting.

Our best player in the past 20 years ??

Too many fans judge players strictly by numbers,

Tatum isn't close to Kevin Garnett and has not surpassed Paul Pierce's later years all-around impact on winning. Don't really expect him to this early. I hope he gets there, wins some titles and we hang #0 in the rafters one day, maybe with #7 next to it. Love to have two homegrown guys carry us thru another championship era.