Poll: If one has to go Brad or Danny

[gift]

Oof, a lot of party poopers in this one. It’s a poll meant to make you choose between 2 imperfect options. Therefore, it purposefully doesn’t provide you with a “both” or “neither”.

I’ll play the game. I’ll keep CBS. As critical as I’ve been of him, this is the first year he’s underperformed. Meanwhile, I think DA has let slip some opportunities to shore up the bench or get some value from players he has signed. He’s had an unbelievable streak of getting top flight players here (Horford, Kyrie, Hayward) but they all pretty much left for nothing (except for the Hayward TPE).

I'd say you can argue that 2018-19 and 2020-21 were underachieving years for Brad.
I'd say his first season 2013-14 he achieved about what you'd expect with the team he had.
In every other year (5 seasons) he coached an overachieving team, sometimes significantly so.

That's pretty impressive.

[Sophomore]

Oof, a lot of party poopers in this one. It’s a poll meant to make you choose between 2 imperfect options. Therefore, it purposefully doesn’t provide you with a “both” or “neither”.

I’ll play the game. I’ll keep CBS. As critical as I’ve been of him, this is the first year he’s underperformed. Meanwhile, I think DA has let slip some opportunities to shore up the bench or get some value from players he has signed. He’s had an unbelievable streak of getting top flight players here (Horford, Kyrie, Hayward) but they all pretty much left for nothing (except for the Hayward TPE).

But why would anybody have to make the choice, instead of the obvious alternative that neither is fired. The question is trying to force people to vote for a position many don’t agree with, and they don’t want to play.

It’s like asking the other side: if you had to give Danny executive of the year for the job he did in 2020 or give Brad coach of the year for 2020, which one would you choose? If you can’t explain why we would have to choose one of these, you should be okay with ppl saying “neither”.

[Bobshot]

I say Stevens, though Ainge has made his share of mistakes. The League has basically passed him by: it is no longer about the draft. It is about amassing free agents who want to play together, and filling out the team on the cheap with veteran role players who want to win. The very formula Ainge used to win a Championship in '08. There's the irony.  But the ownership cut off the money, Perk got traded and KG got hurt. So Danny went the draft route, and after 13 years, he has nothing to show for it --by Celtics standards.

A tip off on the problem was Ainge's inability to trade for Vucevic instead of Fournier--another ho-hum 3P shooter--when everyone in the league knows the Celtics weakness is the lack of a rim protector. Paint defense. Not that Vucevic is Bill Russell, but he makes up for it other ways. Rob Williams? He's been brought along so slowly he hasn't had nearly the effect he should have had. That's where Stevens comes in. The guy can't coach bigs. Doesn't want them, never had them at Butler ("we could never recruit any good ones, so we went to a small ball game.") Well, small ball is not the way Celtics teams win championships. Or any team, for that matter. Ainge knows that, and should have realized it when he hired him. Sure they had a good run with Al Horford, who fit as a 'tweener big. But they haven't done much since then.  Both Ainges know the problem--Austin signed Tacko who? Danny signed Rob Williams--too young, not durable. And Thompson hasn't done much. He's passed up many opportunities to sign leading bigs who could make a difference--guys like Drummond, Cousins etc. I suspect Stevens has a personnel say (one-third, as Ainge was quoted), and that has been a fly in the ointment.

Time for a change. The current team is going nowhere, by Celtics old standards. Danny has never really built a balanced team around Tatum and Brown. Just tried to copy them with lesser guys. And then he lost a few stars to bigger markets--maybe because of his coach. He hasn't done a very good job lately molding a balanced team with trades and free agents. Rozier, for example, a guy he let go, turned out to be better than Walker, the expensive free agent he signed without taking a good look at his knees.

[PAOBoston]

I don’t like Stevens but going to say Ainge here only because I think the Cs would replace Ainge internally with someone like Mike Zarren. I don’t think Ainge has done a great job with the roster but also he’s getting older as well and been here for a while.

Stevens has his warts but he’s mostly over achieved during his tenure here. That being said, the two years he has underachieved have been tough seasons to watch.

[colincb]

“Brad Stevens is going to be back,” Wojnarowski said on ESPN's "Get Up" Tuesday afternoon. “The idea that his job might be in jeopardy is just not accurate. This is a coach who’s been to the conference finals three out of four years. They’re going [to], certainly, continue with Brad Stevens.”

[SparzWizard]

“Brad Stevens is going to be back,” Wojnarowski said on ESPN's "Get Up" Tuesday afternoon. “The idea that his job might be in jeopardy is just not accurate. This is a coach who’s been to the conference finals three out of four years. They’re going [to], certainly, continue with Brad Stevens.”

Welp, they might need to consider changing ownership too lol. If your big historic franchise has only won one championship once within the last 34-35 years then it's a problem.

[LilRip]

Oof, a lot of party poopers in this one. It’s a poll meant to make you choose between 2 imperfect options. Therefore, it purposefully doesn’t provide you with a “both” or “neither”.

I’ll play the game. I’ll keep CBS. As critical as I’ve been of him, this is the first year he’s underperformed. Meanwhile, I think DA has let slip some opportunities to shore up the bench or get some value from players he has signed. He’s had an unbelievable streak of getting top flight players here (Horford, Kyrie, Hayward) but they all pretty much left for nothing (except for the Hayward TPE).

But why would anybody have to make the choice, instead of the obvious alternative that neither is fired. The question is trying to force people to vote for a position many don’t agree with, and they don’t want to play.

It’s like asking the other side: if you had to give Danny executive of the year for the job he did in 2020 or give Brad coach of the year for 2020, which one would you choose? If you can’t explain why we would have to choose one of these, you should be okay with ppl saying “neither”.

It’s like asking “would you rather date someone who you’re physically attracted to or someone who you emotionally connect with or both?”

The obvious answer is “both” because those traits are not mutually exclusive but then that’s definitely a boring answer to an even more boring question. This is why you take away the perfect option to have able to get people thinking and create discussion. There’s no “right” answer because everyone can bring their POV to the table and we can all enjoy just talking to each other.

But I guess it’s inevitable that you’re going to get people who will whine why they have to choose and I suspect these people are also the ones who typically say “I will wish for more wishes”.

It’s a hypothetical. If you don’t want to play the game, then you don’t have to vote.

[GreenlyGreeny]

“Brad Stevens is going to be back,” Wojnarowski said on ESPN's "Get Up" Tuesday afternoon. “The idea that his job might be in jeopardy is just not accurate. This is a coach who’s been to the conference finals three out of four years. They’re going [to], certainly, continue with Brad Stevens.”

Welp, they might need to consider changing ownership too lol. If your big historic franchise has only won one championship once within the last 34-35 years then it's a problem.

That is a problem. And guess who has been GM for over half of those 34-35 years…

[Celtics4ever]

Who needs to go, it is really the Scouting Staff who did the 2019 draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nickagneta]

Who needs to go, it is really the Scouting Staff who did the 2019 draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not be so quick to pan that whole draft. Romeo looked really good in the play-in playoff game last night and, IMHO, has a ton of two way talent. I guess we all will know next year after Romeo finally gets a normal off-season and, if he is still here, should have ample opportunity to show what he is all about.

[Moranis]

Who needs to go, it is really the Scouting Staff who did the 2019 draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not be so quick to pan that whole draft. Romeo looked really good in the play-in playoff game last night and, IMHO, has a ton of two way talent. I guess we all will know next year after Romeo finally gets a normal off-season and, if he is still here, should have ample opportunity to show what he is all about.

I commented on a similar post of his in another thread.  He just isn't in reality when it comes to 2019.  That draft was horrid outside of the lottery.  Like perhaps worst draft ever in that range. Bazley seems like the only guy that could be a multi-year starter coming from those picks and he certainly doesn't look like he could be an all star (or borderline all star), which is quite common from that draft range.  I mean that draft just blows.

[PhoSita]

Who needs to go, it is really the Scouting Staff who did the 2019 draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not be so quick to pan that whole draft. Romeo looked really good in the play-in playoff game last night and, IMHO, has a ton of two way talent. I guess we all will know next year after Romeo finally gets a normal off-season and, if he is still here, should have ample opportunity to show what he is all about.

I commented on a similar post of his in another thread.  He just isn't in reality when it comes to 2019.  That draft was horrid outside of the lottery.  Like perhaps worst draft ever in that range. Bazley seems like the only guy that could be a multi-year starter coming from those picks and he certainly doesn't look like he could be an all star (or borderline all star), which is quite common from that draft range.  I mean that draft just blows.

When it comes to the 2019 draft all I ever hear about is Thybulle and how the Celts could've had him but took Grant and Carsen instead.


Thybulle is .... fine?  Like he's a nice role player to have on the bench but for my money guys who are really good on D but who can't really shoot or punish teams for leaving them open are not that hard to find and are probably hard to have on the floor in a playoff series.

Brandon Clarke was a big miss, too, but I also feel like his production and athleticism kind of leads people to overrate the impact he actually has on his team winning games.  He's a 6'8'' bouncy power forward who can't really shoot and isn't a great rebounder or perimeter defender.


You're totally right that there just doesn't appear to be a lot of sure fire starter level talent in the 6-20 range of that draft.

[Celtics4ever]

Brandon Clarke was a big miss, too, but I also feel like his production and athleticism kind of leads people to overrate the impact he actually has on his team winning games.  He's a 6'8'' bouncy power forward who can't really shoot and isn't a great rebounder or perimeter defender.

5.6 RPG would look a lot better than Grant's 2.   Is this a big miss where he was picked at 21.   I don;t think so.

PPG    RPG  AST    FG          3P       FT        STL    BLOCK    PER
10.3   5.6    1.6   51..7%   26%    69%      1       0.9        17.3

In 24 MPG

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkbr01.html

Grant in 18 MPG gave us    4.7 PPG and 2.8 RPG  on 43% from the field, thought he is markedly better three point shooter.

I will be merciful and not post a comparison of their PER 36

He just isn't in reality when it comes to 2019.

I disagree with your comment and I answered in the other thread using statistics to argue my point ( how is that for reality).....

We have Carsen Edwards, Grant Williams, Romeo Langford and Tacko Fall and Tremont Waters from 2019   of those what four of them were drafted.    Have they helped us much this year?   Much of our under producing bench is from this time period.    Out of these guys only Romeo should be on the team next year and he is largely a defensive specialist just like Thybelle but Matis is taller and arguably a better defender.  Half our bench is from 2019 and there were four players drafted correct.   It definitely hurt us as these guys do not produce consistently.  Making these guys rotational players hampered our bench.

We most likely not going to agree but recently Gary Washburn stated this very thing in a video.  I posted this before he said this a while back on the boards but I am sure we came to this similar conclusion mutually.

Washburn noted that the entire 2019 draft class is still here and relied upon with minimal contributions in return. Ainge used the most picks in the NBA between 2016-2020, with various opportunities to consolidate them, to the point where the Celtics had to start trading them away for little return because they don’t have enough roster spots.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/5/14/22436867/gary-washburn-time-for-new-voices-in-celtics-front-office-boston-nba

I realize the jury is still out on Romeo.   But he is always hurt, I wish him good health and he is good on defense.  But how long do you wait for a guy to put it all together.  3 years?  Five Years?  That is not for me to say.

I doubt I can sway you guys but I firmly believe this was a major factor in our problems that we had in terms of depth and lack of quality depth is having a roster with a bench with a hodge podge of misfit parts from 2019.  Bring on the skilled role player veterans! 

[KG Living Legend]

 Good to know that Wyc is reading Celtics Strong. I voted to fire Danny haha. Guess who's laughing now Danny!

[KG Living Legend]

 Two more votes for Danny after he's already canned.