Author Topic: NBA Playoffs 2021  (Read 401830 times)

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Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1380 on: June 07, 2021, 03:04:07 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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I think Luka has indirectly caused Dallas issues with what I call ‘The LeBron Effect’.

When teams draft a franchise rookie they usually have time to slowly build picking up more lottery talent along the way. But players like LeBron & Luka are elite win share producers from the offset. As a result, their team is pushed up into a winning position that the GM isn’t ready for. Without pre-hoarding other teams picks Cavs were never able to get the best young talent around LeBron and I think this could be the case with Luka.
Well it doesn't help that they blew the 9th pick the year before Luka (Dennis Smith) and to get Luka they traded a pick that would end up 10th (Cam Reddish). They then traded two future 1st's for the Zinger.  So they didn't help themselves in the young talent acquisition department.
Imagine if they'd taken Mitchell or Bam instead of Dennis Smith Jr
Luka and Bam would have formed one of the best PnR duos in NBA history (imo, the best). They'd be unstoppable! Swap Zinger with Bam and I bet the Mavs would have won it all this season. At the very least, they wouldn't have been using two oversized bigs at the same time. Why on earth were they starting both Zinger and Marjanovic? Neither of them can play D on the perimeter. It makes zero sense to me. The Clips killed them from the 3pt line (46.5% yesterday).

Wouldn't like the fit of Mitchell next to Luka. They are both ball dominant guards. Mitchell runs the show in Utah. I really don't think he would have been the same player if he were playing off the ball.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 04:06:29 AM by Jvalin »

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1381 on: June 07, 2021, 03:11:28 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Same; Jazz vs Nets finals, I reckon.

Utah is the real deal.

I hope that’s not the case because it’s a horrible matchup for Utah.

If Harden is available then the jazz have no one on the team who can guard him nor Durant and in that series someone like Gobert might not be even be playable.
I think it will be Jazz v Bucks. Which would be very interesting

lol bucks better play better than that crap they displayed last game.
They had a week off. Of course they looked bad
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1382 on: June 07, 2021, 04:19:08 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I think Luka has indirectly caused Dallas issues with what I call ‘The LeBron Effect’.

When teams draft a franchise rookie they usually have time to slowly build picking up more lottery talent along the way. But players like LeBron & Luka are elite win share producers from the offset. As a result, their team is pushed up into a winning position that the GM isn’t ready for. Without pre-hoarding other teams picks Cavs were never able to get the best young talent around LeBron and I think this could be the case with Luka.
Well it doesn't help that they blew the 9th pick the year before Luka (Dennis Smith) and to get Luka they traded a pick that would end up 10th (Cam Reddish). They then traded two future 1st's for the Zinger.  So they didn't help themselves in the young talent acquisition department.
Imagine if they'd taken Mitchell or Bam instead of Dennis Smith Jr
Luka and Bam would have formed one of the best PnR duos in NBA history (imo, the best). They'd be unstoppable! Swap Zinger with Bam and I bet the Mavs would have won it all this season. At the very least, they wouldn't have been using two oversized bigs at the same time. Why on earth were they starting both Zinger and Marjanovic? Neither of them can play D on the perimeter. It makes zero sense to me.

Wouldn't like the fit of Mitchell next to Luka. They are both ball dominant guards. Mitchell runs the show in Utah. I really don't think he would have been the same player if he were playing off the ball.
It also doesn't help that the Mavs need very specific types of players to take them to the next level due to Doncic's skillset (a defensive stud who has an off-ball game on offence like Garnett/AD or an off-ball specialist who can also defend like Klay).

For all of the talk about Doncic needing a secondary offensive star next to him, I'm not sure if it would even be worthwhile to do so. Sure, another offensive star can improve the Mavs' attack - in Brooklyn's non-Durant lineups this year, lineups quarterbacked by Harden (a player functionally similar to Doncic) averaged 117.3 ORTG, but lineups with Kryknee supporting him jumped by more than 3 points to a whopping 120.4 ORTG. However, those offensively-slanted lineups were also porous defensively, leading to the latter having a worse net rating than heliocentric lineups around Harden. Unless you're adding an incredibly scalable offensive superstar to the Mavericks like Curry/Jokic/Bird, it's difficult to get the crazy 6 point bump that Bird 'gave' the Celtics in '88 (the same core in '89 minus Bird had an offence 6 points worse than their '88 attack) to make what you're giving up on defence by replacing a strong defensive role player with said star a significant net gain for the team.

Going forward, the Mavs might be better off surrounding Doncic with 3 and D role players in the starting lineup and a couple of ballhandlers (they already have a very good one in Brunson) to keep the offence afloat when Doncic is taking a breather unless they can find the type of rare star detailed above. This is why scaling is so important - you get huge diminishing marginal returns when you add more and more on-ball talent to your squad on offence, and sometimes it might even be better to add an 'inferior player' who defends well and complements on-ball teammates on offence than said 'star'.
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1383 on: June 07, 2021, 06:36:44 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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I think Luka has indirectly caused Dallas issues with what I call ‘The LeBron Effect’.

When teams draft a franchise rookie they usually have time to slowly build picking up more lottery talent along the way. But players like LeBron & Luka are elite win share producers from the offset. As a result, their team is pushed up into a winning position that the GM isn’t ready for. Without pre-hoarding other teams picks Cavs were never able to get the best young talent around LeBron and I think this could be the case with Luka.
Well it doesn't help that they blew the 9th pick the year before Luka (Dennis Smith) and to get Luka they traded a pick that would end up 10th (Cam Reddish). They then traded two future 1st's for the Zinger.  So they didn't help themselves in the young talent acquisition department.
Imagine if they'd taken Mitchell or Bam instead of Dennis Smith Jr
Luka and Bam would have formed one of the best PnR duos in NBA history (imo, the best). They'd be unstoppable! Swap Zinger with Bam and I bet the Mavs would have won it all this season. At the very least, they wouldn't have been using two oversized bigs at the same time. Why on earth were they starting both Zinger and Marjanovic? Neither of them can play D on the perimeter. It makes zero sense to me.

Wouldn't like the fit of Mitchell next to Luka. They are both ball dominant guards. Mitchell runs the show in Utah. I really don't think he would have been the same player if he were playing off the ball.
It also doesn't help that the Mavs need very specific types of players to take them to the next level due to Doncic's skillset (a defensive stud who has an off-ball game on offence like Garnett/AD or an off-ball specialist who can also defend like Klay).

For all of the talk about Doncic needing a secondary offensive star next to him, I'm not sure if it would even be worthwhile to do so. Sure, another offensive star can improve the Mavs' attack - in Brooklyn's non-Durant lineups this year, lineups quarterbacked by Harden (a player functionally similar to Doncic) averaged 117.3 ORTG, but lineups with Kryknee supporting him jumped by more than 3 points to a whopping 120.4 ORTG. However, those offensively-slanted lineups were also porous defensively, leading to the latter having a worse net rating than heliocentric lineups around Harden. Unless you're adding an incredibly scalable offensive superstar to the Mavericks like Curry/Jokic/Bird, it's difficult to get the crazy 6 point bump that Bird 'gave' the Celtics in '88 (the same core in '89 minus Bird had an offence 6 points worse than their '88 attack) to make what you're giving up on defence by replacing a strong defensive role player with said star a significant net gain for the team.

Going forward, the Mavs might be better off surrounding Doncic with 3 and D role players in the starting lineup and a couple of ballhandlers (they already have a very good one in Brunson) to keep the offence afloat when Doncic is taking a breather unless they can find the type of rare star detailed above. This is why scaling is so important - you get huge diminishing marginal returns when you add more and more on-ball talent to your squad on offence, and sometimes it might even be better to add an 'inferior player' who defends well and complements on-ball teammates on offence than said 'star'.
Couldn't agree more. TP! Luka led the NBA is USG% this season. It makes zero sense to pair him with a ball dominant player. Ideally, the Mavs should go after a mobile defensive big man who's a PnR specialist. For instance: AD, Bam, Capela. Alternatively, Luka would also thrive alongside a 2-way star who's happy to play off the ball on offense. For instance: Kawhi, KD, Paul George, Middleton, Tatum, Brown, Klay. Obviously, these guys don't exactly grow on trees. If none such player is available, the best they can do is surround Luka with 3+D (s)wings, plus one defensive minded big.

Theoretically, Porzingis is a nice fit next to Luka. He ain't mobile enough to defend the perimeter, but you can hide him in a drop scheme on defense. I mean, he comfortably led the league in BLK% in 2018. At the same time, he's perfectly happy to play off the ball on offense. Unfortunately, he's injury prone and he's massively overpaid.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1384 on: June 07, 2021, 08:36:00 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I think Luka has indirectly caused Dallas issues with what I call ‘The LeBron Effect’.

When teams draft a franchise rookie they usually have time to slowly build picking up more lottery talent along the way. But players like LeBron & Luka are elite win share producers from the offset. As a result, their team is pushed up into a winning position that the GM isn’t ready for. Without pre-hoarding other teams picks Cavs were never able to get the best young talent around LeBron and I think this could be the case with Luka.
Well it doesn't help that they blew the 9th pick the year before Luka (Dennis Smith) and to get Luka they traded a pick that would end up 10th (Cam Reddish). They then traded two future 1st's for the Zinger.  So they didn't help themselves in the young talent acquisition department.
Imagine if they'd taken Mitchell or Bam instead of Dennis Smith Jr
Luka and Bam would have formed one of the best PnR duos in NBA history (imo, the best). They'd be unstoppable! Swap Zinger with Bam and I bet the Mavs would have won it all this season. At the very least, they wouldn't have been using two oversized bigs at the same time. Why on earth were they starting both Zinger and Marjanovic? Neither of them can play D on the perimeter. It makes zero sense to me.

Wouldn't like the fit of Mitchell next to Luka. They are both ball dominant guards. Mitchell runs the show in Utah. I really don't think he would have been the same player if he were playing off the ball.
It also doesn't help that the Mavs need very specific types of players to take them to the next level due to Doncic's skillset (a defensive stud who has an off-ball game on offence like Garnett/AD or an off-ball specialist who can also defend like Klay).

For all of the talk about Doncic needing a secondary offensive star next to him, I'm not sure if it would even be worthwhile to do so. Sure, another offensive star can improve the Mavs' attack - in Brooklyn's non-Durant lineups this year, lineups quarterbacked by Harden (a player functionally similar to Doncic) averaged 117.3 ORTG, but lineups with Kryknee supporting him jumped by more than 3 points to a whopping 120.4 ORTG. However, those offensively-slanted lineups were also porous defensively, leading to the latter having a worse net rating than heliocentric lineups around Harden. Unless you're adding an incredibly scalable offensive superstar to the Mavericks like Curry/Jokic/Bird, it's difficult to get the crazy 6 point bump that Bird 'gave' the Celtics in '88 (the same core in '89 minus Bird had an offence 6 points worse than their '88 attack) to make what you're giving up on defence by replacing a strong defensive role player with said star a significant net gain for the team.

Going forward, the Mavs might be better off surrounding Doncic with 3 and D role players in the starting lineup and a couple of ballhandlers (they already have a very good one in Brunson) to keep the offence afloat when Doncic is taking a breather unless they can find the type of rare star detailed above. This is why scaling is so important - you get huge diminishing marginal returns when you add more and more on-ball talent to your squad on offence, and sometimes it might even be better to add an 'inferior player' who defends well and complements on-ball teammates on offence than said 'star'.
Couldn't agree more. TP! Luka led the NBA is USG% this season. It makes zero sense to pair him with a ball dominant player. Ideally, the Mavs should go after a mobile defensive big man who's a PnR specialist. For instance: AD, Bam, Capela. Alternatively, Luka would also thrive alongside a 2-way star who's happy to play off the ball on offense. For instance: Kawhi, KD, Paul George, Middleton, Tatum, Brown, Klay. Obviously, these guys don't exactly grow on trees. If none such player is available, the best they can do is surround Luka with 3+D (s)wings, plus one defensive minded big.

Theoretically, Porzingis is a nice fit next to Luka. He ain't mobile enough to defend the perimeter, but you can hide him in a drop scheme on defense. I mean, he comfortably led the league in BLK% in 2018. At the same time, he's perfectly happy to play off the ball on offense. Unfortunately, he's injury prone and he's massively overpaid.
Maybe before 2017 or so. The NBA has become a game of chess in the playoffs - teams pound away at their opponents' weaknesses until they adjust and then proceed to pick on another soft spot that inevitably appears with the adjustment. Porzingis is a defensive weakness that teams simply can't solve when they run into capable pull up shooters with ballhandling skills in the playoffs due to his nonexistent lateral quickness and poor defensive awareness on the perimeter. I mean you can look at what teams have been doing in the playoffs this year - the Clippers benched an elite point of attack defender in Beverley who was starting almost every game for them in the regular season because he was too small to guard Doncic and Dallas kept on forcing switches on him. Players like Porzingis are only valuable to teams who have the personnel and schemes to cover his defensive weaknesses even when opponents start spamming the high PnR against him, and Dallas simply doesn't have that when their franchise cornerstone is Luka Doncic.

Also Tatum isn't that happy to play off the ball on offence :laugh:
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 08:44:12 AM by Somebody »
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1385 on: June 07, 2021, 02:11:43 PM »

Online Moranis

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I think Luka has indirectly caused Dallas issues with what I call ‘The LeBron Effect’.

When teams draft a franchise rookie they usually have time to slowly build picking up more lottery talent along the way. But players like LeBron & Luka are elite win share producers from the offset. As a result, their team is pushed up into a winning position that the GM isn’t ready for. Without pre-hoarding other teams picks Cavs were never able to get the best young talent around LeBron and I think this could be the case with Luka.
Well it doesn't help that they blew the 9th pick the year before Luka (Dennis Smith) and to get Luka they traded a pick that would end up 10th (Cam Reddish). They then traded two future 1st's for the Zinger.  So they didn't help themselves in the young talent acquisition department.
Imagine if they'd taken Mitchell or Bam instead of Dennis Smith Jr
then Luka might be a Hawk or some other team since the Hawks only made the deal believing they would get Young.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1386 on: June 07, 2021, 02:17:16 PM »

Online Moranis

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Same; Jazz vs Nets finals, I reckon.

Utah is the real deal.

I hope that’s not the case because it’s a horrible matchup for Utah.

If Harden is available then the jazz have no one on the team who can guard him nor Durant and in that series someone like Gobert might not be even be playable.
I think it will be Jazz v Bucks. Which would be very interesting

lol bucks better play better than that crap they displayed last game.
They had a week off. Of course they looked bad
Yeah.  Not surprised at all they couldn't hit a broad side of the barn.  I expect Milwaukee to win tonight because Brooklyn quite simply cannot guard Giannis.  He has had a field day all 4 games they've played against the Nets this season.  They just need Middleton to not shoot 6 of 23 (0 of 5 from 3) or the team to be 6 of 30 from 3. 

Prediction: Milwaukee 112, Brooklyn 103
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1387 on: June 07, 2021, 08:02:04 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Giannis needs to step it up. Too much one on one and it’s not working...
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1388 on: June 07, 2021, 08:15:48 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Middleton only shows up against the C's, huh?
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1389 on: June 07, 2021, 08:17:01 PM »

Offline terra haute

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Going to get out of hand fast I am afraid

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1390 on: June 07, 2021, 08:17:35 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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This is a joke. Bucks look like a bunch of deer in the headlights. Terrible, I know... :)
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1391 on: June 07, 2021, 08:19:18 PM »

Kiorrik

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This is a joke. Bucks look like a bunch of deer in the headlights. Terrible, I know... :)

Gonna be the sweep I predicted :D

Glad to be right for once.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1392 on: June 07, 2021, 08:21:40 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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This is a joke. Bucks look like a bunch of deer in the headlights. Terrible, I know... :)

Gonna be the sweep I predicted :D

Glad to be right for once.

But but but some experts said....

I told y’all bucks should have fired their head coach on the spot last game.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1393 on: June 07, 2021, 08:22:28 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Blake Griffin..another one that wasn’t good enough for the Celtics.

Re: NBA Playoffs 2021
« Reply #1394 on: June 07, 2021, 08:22:32 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Milwaukee getting caned just like we were in Game 2.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D