Author Topic: Who's in, who's out ?  (Read 13599 times)

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Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2021, 11:51:55 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Keepers for me is

Brown (untouchable)
Nesmith
Pritchard
Langford (needs offseason)
TL

Coaching
Brad Stevens - extended last season. Can't see going anywhere anytime soon. Unless traded

Trades (unpopular)
- Smart and Gwilliams to Rockets for Eric Gordon and 2021 least favorable 1st
- Walker to Spurs for TPE and 2nd round pick
- Tatum traded to Bulls for Young, White, Patrick Williams, 2021 1st round pick
- TT to Wolves for Hernangomez
-Carsen Edwards waived

2021-2022 Lineup

TL/Lopez/Bassey
Patrick Williams/Young/Hernangomez
Brown/Gordon/Pons
Nesmith/Langford
White/PP/Yam

2021 draft picks -  Bassey, Pons
FA signing. Robin Lopez. 2 years at full MLE per

Interesting trade thought with CHI, but we're asking them to give up their 2019, 2020, and 2021 1st round picks for Tatum.  I'm not sure they would, but kudos for being one of the few here willing to move on from him and not JB.
I think Chicago would pull the trigger in a heartbeat.  I think it's a genuine underpay for Tatum.  none of those players are likely to be as good as Tatum.

The Walker deal is a non-starter.  if we trade him while we still have him under contract for 2 years and only get a TPE for it, Danny needs to be fired.

Walker value is not as high as you think. Contract, injury, size, age all goes against him

Yes the Bulls trade seems a little underwhelming. But several pieces for one piece is always going to be perceived that way

However P. Williams and White would fit Brad Stevens system like a glove.   P Williams is an amazing physical defender. Able to guard almost all 5 positions. His offense is only going to get better.... I dont think Bulls would trade him

Coby White is underrated and also up and coming.  The way he can drive to the basket or shoot the 3. Dangerous offensive talent.Plus defend at 6'5

Brad Stevens could do much more with Williams, White, Young imo


Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2021, 11:58:24 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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At this point, Tatum and Brown are the only sure things (well as sure as a player is with Ainge)

Everyone else could be moved if they think it is a better fit around those two.   

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2021, 11:58:51 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Keepers for me is

Brown (untouchable)
Nesmith
Pritchard
Langford (needs offseason)
TL

Coaching
Brad Stevens - extended last season. Can't see going anywhere anytime soon. Unless traded

Trades (unpopular)
- Smart and Gwilliams to Rockets for Eric Gordon and 2021 least favorable 1st
- Walker to Spurs for TPE and 2nd round pick
- Tatum traded to Bulls for Young, White, Patrick Williams, 2021 1st round pick
- TT to Wolves for Hernangomez
-Carsen Edwards waived

2021-2022 Lineup

TL/Lopez/Bassey
Patrick Williams/Young/Hernangomez
Brown/Gordon/Pons
Nesmith/Langford
White/PP/Yam

2021 draft picks -  Bassey, Pons
FA signing. Robin Lopez. 2 years at full MLE per

Interesting trade thought with CHI, but we're asking them to give up their 2019, 2020, and 2021 1st round picks for Tatum.  I'm not sure they would, but kudos for being one of the few here willing to move on from him and not JB.

Tatum as a young all star talent that is locked up for the forseeable future = bring back that type of return


Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2021, 12:13:06 PM »

Offline wiley

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My take is quite in line with Triboy.

I think one of Brown and Tatum should be traded.  I would trade Tatum as he'll bring a higher return and, I think for maximizing Brad Steven's strengths as a coach Brown is a better fit than Tatum.

Stevens needs a deep team that can defend.  Trading Tatum can deliver that while also remaining extremely talented.


Main Players:

Out:  Tatum, Walker, maybe Smart maybe not.

In:  Brown, Fournier, Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard, Robert Williams


Brown was great this year but picked up one of Tatum's bad habits of going one on one
and turning the ball over at ill advised moments.  If both Brown and Tatum are going iso it becomes impossible for Steven's to implement what he's trying to do in terms of cohesion.
One option is to be patient with both, keeping both.  Another is to give Stevens a Stevens-type team right now.




Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2021, 12:25:41 PM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Trade Tatum for White, Williams and Bassey ! Not sure this trade proposition age well (I know some people are high on Williams or Bassey but Tatum is still one of the best player of his generation, Williams motor is questioning, Bassey may well finish like the new Bamba)

Even if you say he is a stat guy (which I don't believe) and compare him to Melo at 23 (and if people would have been an oracle to preview he'll never win a title), I guess I wouldn't have traded 23 Melo for Devin Harris, Andrew Bynum and Jeff Green ! Don't say they are the same player, but it is an unconsidereed risk. Tatum is a generational talent, people want to throw everything and anyone have to go for somes (Tatum is responsable for some, Brown is expendable for some, Smart became the worst player with 0 value for some...). Sorry but this is panicing. Even with his mistakes and aging, I am very happy Ainge is still on charge.

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2021, 12:48:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Tatum or Brown are going out in a trade, one of the following most definitely needs to be coming back:

Steph
Doncic
Giannis
Davis
Embiid
Jokic
Durant
Kawhi
Zion

Or possibly coming back:

Mitchell
Beal
LaVine
Fox
George
Simmons
Butler
Ingram
Sabonis
And maybe one or three others



Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2021, 12:51:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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We also need a durable center that's not useless with the ball under the basket like TT.   


The failure of TT as a fit with this roster, combined with the success of the team with Rob Williams (when healthy), I think underscores the importance of having a big on the floor who is a rim runner and lob threat.  The alternative would be a stretch 5, but it's harder to find guys who can do that who aren't a drag on the defense.

Durability is a major piece, too.  I think part of the reason it was easy for the team to move on from Theis is that he's had nagging injury issues in the past, despite being pretty health this season and in the playoffs last year.  Rob Williams can't be counted on as a key piece because he hasn't been able to stay on the floor, whether due to fouls, health, or conditioning.


Having a couple of reliable, durable centers who pressure the rim and offer at least solid pick and roll defense would be a huge boon.
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Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2021, 12:54:25 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Trade Tatum for White, Williams and Bassey ! Not sure this trade proposition age well (I know some people are high on Williams or Bassey but Tatum is still one of the best player of his generation, Williams motor is questioning, Bassey may well finish like the new Bamba)

Even if you say he is a stat guy (which I don't believe) and compare him to Melo at 23 (and if people would have been an oracle to preview he'll never win a title), I guess I wouldn't have traded 23 Melo for Devin Harris, Andrew Bynum and Jeff Green ! Don't say they are the same player, but it is an unconsidereed risk. Tatum is a generational talent, people want to throw everything and anyone have to go for somes (Tatum is responsable for some, Brown is expendable for some, Smart became the worst player with 0 value for some...). Sorry but this is panicing. Even with his mistakes and aging, I am very happy Ainge is still on charge.

Patrick Williams motor is questionable? Since when

He works hard on both end. And is a physical dude

Bassey is no next Bamba. What?? Bassey is aggressive and plays with urgency. Anytime there is a odd man opportunity he is running up the floor

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2021, 01:01:08 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Tatum or Brown are going out in a trade, one of the following most definitely needs to be coming back:

Steph
Doncic
Giannis
Davis
Embiid
Jokic
Durant
Kawhi
Zion

Or possibly coming back:

Mitchell
Beal
LaVine
Fox
George
Simmons
Butler
Ingram
Sabonis
And maybe one or three others

Or

Patrick Williams, Coby White, Thad Young and 2021 1st imo

I rather take this package than some the guys you listed under 'possibly' coming back.

Lateral type trades (1:1 big names) almost never happen.   
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 01:09:19 PM by Tr1boy »

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2021, 01:18:36 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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If Tatum or Brown are going out in a trade, one of the following most definitely needs to be coming back:

Steph
Doncic
Giannis
Davis
Embiid
Jokic
Durant
Kawhi
Zion

Or possibly coming back:

Mitchell
Beal
LaVine
Fox
George
Simmons
Butler
Ingram
Sabonis
And maybe one or three others

Or

Patrick Williams, Coby White, Thad Young and 2021 1st imo

I rather take this package than some the guys you listed under 'possibly' coming back.

Lateral type trades (1:1 big names) almost never happen.


Which is why you don't trade Tatum.   


We have seen Tatum and Brown work together long enough to know it works.   It is about putting the right team around them.   

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2021, 01:36:07 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Tatum or Brown are going out in a trade, one of the following most definitely needs to be coming back:

Steph
Doncic
Giannis
Davis
Embiid
Jokic
Durant
Kawhi
Zion

Or possibly coming back:

Mitchell
Beal
LaVine
Fox
George
Simmons
Butler
Ingram
Sabonis
And maybe one or three others

Or

Patrick Williams, Coby White, Thad Young and 2021 1st imo

I rather take this package than some the guys you listed under 'possibly' coming back.

Lateral type trades (1:1 big names) almost never happen.


Which is why you don't trade Tatum.   


We have seen Tatum and Brown work together long enough to know it works.   It is about putting the right team around them.

Im indifferent of keeping or trading Tatum

He is a talent but also plays with bad habit and is at times soft

As a leader that doesnt really help or inspire your team

Yesterday he is about to block or take a charge on Sexton. But just kept backpeddling with arms up/out of bounds

I mean what is that?

I have never seen him take a charge also. I dont know how thats possible unless purposely trying to avoid contact

He also takes some crazy shots thats unnecessary.  When you have no choice you do it. When you have a choice make the correct play/pass

Look he is not perfect and still young. But if Brad is not going to get through to him. Then let someone else try... or fire Brad. Which seems like the last thing the Celts are going to do

What shouldnt happen is keeping things the same and expecting different results.  Bringing back Horford or Draymond Green would help. But it would be costly... and who is to say Tatum will listen to them at this point of his career
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 01:42:08 PM by Tr1boy »

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2021, 01:50:52 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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If Tatum or Brown are going out in a trade, one of the following most definitely needs to be coming back:

Steph
Doncic
Giannis
Davis
Embiid
Jokic
Durant
Kawhi
Zion

Or possibly coming back:

Mitchell
Beal
LaVine
Fox
George
Simmons
Butler
Ingram
Sabonis
And maybe one or three others

Or

Patrick Williams, Coby White, Thad Young and 2021 1st imo

I rather take this package than some the guys you listed under 'possibly' coming back.

Lateral type trades (1:1 big names) almost never happen.


Which is why you don't trade Tatum.   


We have seen Tatum and Brown work together long enough to know it works.   It is about putting the right team around them.

Im indifferent of keeping or trading Tatum

He is a talent but also plays with bad habit and is at times soft

As a leader that doesnt really help or inspire your team

Yesterday he is about to block or take a charge on Sexton. But just kept backpeddling with arms up/out of bounds

I mean what is that?

I have never seen him take a charge also. I dont know how thats possible unless purposely trying to avoid contact

He also takes some crazy shots thats unnecessary.  When you have no choice you do it. When you have a choice make the correct play/pass

Look he is not perfect and still young. But if Brad is not going to get through to him. Then let someone else try... or fire Brad. Which seems like the last thing the Celts are going to do

What shouldnt happen is keeping things the same and expecting different results.  Bringing back Horford or Draymond Green would help. But it would be costly... and who is to say Tatum will listen to them at this point of his career

It is like we forget how hard it is to get a player of Tatum's level.   


Yes, changes likely need to happen with the team but not changes that makes the team within striking distance of being a top 4 team in the East to being down with Detroit. 


Build around Tatum and Brown.   Don't trade them for the hope of another player getting close to that level.

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2021, 01:53:41 PM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Trade Tatum for White, Williams and Bassey ! Not sure this trade proposition age well (I know some people are high on Williams or Bassey but Tatum is still one of the best player of his generation, Williams motor is questioning, Bassey may well finish like the new Bamba)

Even if you say he is a stat guy (which I don't believe) and compare him to Melo at 23 (and if people would have been an oracle to preview he'll never win a title), I guess I wouldn't have traded 23 Melo for Devin Harris, Andrew Bynum and Jeff Green ! Don't say they are the same player, but it is an unconsidereed risk. Tatum is a generational talent, people want to throw everything and anyone have to go for somes (Tatum is responsable for some, Brown is expendable for some, Smart became the worst player with 0 value for some...). Sorry but this is panicing. Even with his mistakes and aging, I am very happy Ainge is still on charge.

Patrick Williams motor is questionable? Since when

He works hard on both end. And is a physical dude

Bassey is no next Bamba. What?? Bassey is aggressive and plays with urgency. Anytime there is a odd man opportunity he is running up the floor

I did say it may not be good coparaison as I don't pretend to know well Williams that I just watched 3 or 4 times and not at all Bassey.
 From what I saw Williams was a big reach of Chicago, some compared his potential to Siakam (the comparaison we see each years, many times) and showed some flash... But when I speak about motor it is because he had a lot of no show matches, at least in stats and tend to disapear on a quiet bad team, where we give him a lot of credit and playing time. An he isn't really definite as a 3 or a 4, having fluke for both posts. If one year he become the half of player Tatum is it would already be a good thing for him.
Bassey from what I just watch on draft net is an injury prone end 1st round who may be a good defender but not that athletic (OK if you don't want Bamba, so Xavier Tillman if you want).
Every year fans have darling draft guys and when like for Bane it pays we ear all year they were right... But when they said Tyrell Terry, Kira Lewis or RJ Hampton were crack we don't listen to them anymore... I knew Maledon would probabmy be a reach for a second round, as I am french, but not much sure than that...

Whatever the trade you propose just seem crazy, and you don't have to have a great knowledge in Basketball to understand that. I mean Tatum has all time stats at this stage and just reched Larry picking point at 23 of age... And everybody speak about him responsable of performances of others, because he isn't a leader... I am teacher and it remains me when you have an A+ pupils and in the class council you complain about him not driving the class with him. And then there is ideas like trading our superstar for some raft catch and young with big if... As most will recognise, tatum is much more promising than Pierce at this stage... So we didn't that qualitie of a player since 40 years...  And then people bring back their science. Just LOL.
Again last year many Philly fans proposed trade for Embid or Simmons. One year later, this seems totally stupid.

And I don't know if it is doable, but 90% will prefer my 5 composed of Ball/Brown/Tatum (replace him at 3!!)/ Collins or Markanen or Barnes / Timelord than White/Springer/Brown/Williams/Bassey... This is almost a tanking team.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 02:31:12 PM by Rikibellevie »

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2021, 02:45:53 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Trade Tatum for White, Williams and Bassey ! Not sure this trade proposition age well (I know some people are high on Williams or Bassey but Tatum is still one of the best player of his generation, Williams motor is questioning, Bassey may well finish like the new Bamba)

Even if you say he is a stat guy (which I don't believe) and compare him to Melo at 23 (and if people would have been an oracle to preview he'll never win a title), I guess I wouldn't have traded 23 Melo for Devin Harris, Andrew Bynum and Jeff Green ! Don't say they are the same player, but it is an unconsidereed risk. Tatum is a generational talent, people want to throw everything and anyone have to go for somes (Tatum is responsable for some, Brown is expendable for some, Smart became the worst player with 0 value for some...). Sorry but this is panicing. Even with his mistakes and aging, I am very happy Ainge is still on charge.

Patrick Williams motor is questionable? Since when

He works hard on both end. And is a physical dude

Bassey is no next Bamba. What?? Bassey is aggressive and plays with urgency. Anytime there is a odd man opportunity he is running up the floor

I did say it may not be good coparaison as I don't pretend to know well Williams that I just watched 3 or 4 times and not at all Bassey.
 From what I saw Williams was a big reach of Chicago, some compared his potential to Siakam (the comparaison we see each years, many times) and showed some flash... But when I speak about motor it is because he had a lot of no show matches, at least in stats and tend to disapear on a quiet bad team, where we give him a lot of credit and playing time. An he isn't really definite as a 3 or a 4, having fluke for both posts. If one year he become the half of player Tatum is it would already be a good thing for him.
Bassey from what I just watch on draft net is an injury prone end 1st round who may be a good defender but not that athletic (OK if you don't want Bamba, so Xavier Tillman if you want).
Every year fans have darling draft guys and when like for Bane it pays we ear all year they were right... But when they said Tyrell Terry, Kira Lewis or RJ Hampton were crack we don't listen to them anymore... I knew Maledon would probabmy be a reach for a second round, as I am french, but not much sure than that...

Whatever the trade you propose just seem crazy, and you don't have to have a great knowledge in Basketball to understand that. I mean Tatum has all time stats at this stage and just reched Larry picking point at 23 of age... And everybody speak about him responsable of performances of others, because he isn't a leader... I am teacher and it remains me when you have an A+ pupils and in the class council you complain about him not driving the class with him. And then there is ideas like trading our superstar for some raft catch and young with big if... As most will recognise, tatum is much more promising than Pierce at this stage... So we didn't that qualitie of a player since 40 years...  And then people bring back their science. Just LOL.
Again last year many Philly fans proposed trade for Embid or Simmons. One year later, this seems totally stupid.

And I don't know if it is doable, but 90% will prefer my 5 composed of Ball/Brown/Tatum (replace him at 3!!)/ Collins or Markanen or Barnes / Timelord than White/Springer/Brown/Williams/Bassey... This is almost a tanking team.

Ok sure buddy. Mr basketball genius

You probably thought the same about Carmelo Anthony once upon a time

Lets just hope Tatum(his show now) doesnt turn out to have a similar career

Re: Who's in, who's out ?
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2021, 03:51:50 PM »

Offline seancally

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Wait wait wait - people wanna trade Tatum? Now??? Didn’t he just tie the Legend’s franchise scoring record (and get cheated out of the outright record with that and-1 non-call)?

Not gonna happen. Shouldn’t happen.

You have two all-stars under 25. Tatum all-NBA-level, with a better team record probably gets the nod this year.

In what universe is trading him a sound idea? Not to mention - an idea that any sane mgmt would consider, for optics alone?

He’s a keeper. He’s a max star who can play with others, who can defend, score at 3 levels, developing as playmaker… 6’10”.. how many guys like this exist on earth?

This nonsense “can he lead us to a finals” line is just that - nonsense. “Not a competitor… selfish… not a killer…” give me a break. He’s hit gamewinners. He dunked on Lebron. He’s brought the team to the ECF twice as its best player. During his first 3 seasons. Stop.

Thank goodness we have Jayson Tatum and I hope he’s a Celtic for life. Jaylen Brown too! We need upgrades at the margins. A solid, reliable, competent 4/5 would do wonders; and a playmaking, shooting PG. I think Pritchard might get there but he’s not some 19-yr-old, unclear what’s his ceiling is. Bench is already better with Nesmith/PP/Fournier (or smart), it’s just we’ve never had everyone healthy.

That said - this roster, with health and consistency together, is a top-4 team in the East without question.
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