Author Topic: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?  (Read 15805 times)

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How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« on: April 26, 2021, 08:13:49 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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First off, I think a lot of what happened this year is due to a very short off-season. Tatum, Stevens and Celtic owner Steve Pagliuca have all linked the poor performance this year to that. I think it’s real as, of the 8 teams that were in the final 8 of the playoffs last year, only Utah and the Clippers have outperformed their records from last year. 3 of the 4 final teams have fallen off precipitously due to missed player games. A usual 5-6 month recuperation period was reduced to 2.5-3 month time frame. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. So I think more normal off-season period is going to help this team immensely.

Second, I think Ainge runs most of this team back. Stevens too. I don’t think Kemba, Smart, the Jays, Timelord, Fournier and Pritchard are going anywhere. I also don’t see Semi, Tacko, Waters or Edwards returning. Everyone else, the remaining TPE and our draft picks could be used as trade bait. I don’t see all of the remaining players (Thompson, Grant, Nesmith, Langford, Kornet and Parker) not being brought back, but I do think some will be gone in trades.

Third, the team will only have the non-taxpayer MLE to use in free agency. We have to remember that using the taxpayer MLE and the bi-annual exception hard caps teams, so neither will be used. Also not being used will be and sign and trades, for the same reason, the hard cap it causes.

As for the draft, I think if Ainge ends up deciding to keep Nesmith and Langford that the pick will be moved. I don’t see Danny wanting to add even more youth, other than maybe Yam Mader on a two way contract and another project guy they can throw into a two-way deal.

So what does he do? If Ainge moves Thompson, a player like Jakob Poetl could fit into the remaining TPE. Players like Nerlens Noel, Rishaun Holmes, Gorgui Dieng and Robin Lopez might be had for the taxpayer MLE. Some other interesting and attainable guys that could fit in the TPE include: Jeremy Lamb, Tomas Satoransky, George Hill, Delon Wright, JaMychal Green, Juancho Hernangomez, Justin Holiday and Zach Collins. A couple of interesting trade targets could be Thaddeus Young, Jonas Valanciunas (this probably means moving Timelord as he fits the Grizzlies timeline better than Jonas) and Danilo Gallinari.

If you see a trend in my suggestions it’s to add a veteran presence and some size. I think those are components this team needs if they keep their core.

Overall, I think the fastest way for this team to improve is for their core to be healthy, playing together and, for the youth, maturing their games. After that, it’s tinkering, adding some quality depth and hoping their two stars take another leap forward.

Let’s remember, Brown and Tatum will only be 25 and 24 years old next year. It took both MJ and LeBron until they were 27, just entering their prime, before they won their first titles, so expectations of a title next year should be set accordingly. I think it’s possible the Jay duo could win a title before reaching 27 years of age, but young stars that lead their teams to titles is a rare thing. It might not be until 2022-23 that we can see this team becoming a legit title contender.

Let's also remember that all this could be upended by ownership if they decide they don't want to pay a huge luxury tax bill. The team has made huge profits for close on two decades. This ownership group has seen their initial $360 million investment to buy the team blossom into the franchise now being worth $3.2 billion. They've made their money and said they would pay the tax for a contender, but how much are they willing to pay? I guess we will have to wait and see.


Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2021, 08:58:00 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Not a veteran addition but I think there’s a good chance Yam Madar come over next year. Could he be signed as a 2 way player to replace Waters?

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 09:06:07 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Not a veteran addition but I think there’s a good chance Yam Madar come over next year. Could he be signed as a 2 way player to replace Waters?

There’s no real incentive for him to agree to a two-way deal, as his European buyout alone might cost more than his salary.


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Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 09:11:44 AM »

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Had this thought a couple times today. Of creating a topic asking; "Who's our best bench player?"

The point being; it's not a name like Griffin. Or Rondo. Or Rose. Or a Morris or a Gasol.

I think that's the biggest thing we lack. We expect a lot of our starting 5 - but I'd rather have 2 of those guys come off the bench.

Does that make sense, or is that just me? :)

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 09:16:34 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Timelord / Thompson / Kornet
Tatum / Parker
Brown / Nesmith
Smart / Fournier / Langford
Kemba / Pritchard

Who does that leave out?  Semi, Williams and Edwards?

In an ideal world, we package together some expirings (or TPE) and our #1 for somebody.  Thompson + Edwards + Williams make a combined $14 million next year.  I believe that means we can take back up to about $17.5 million in salary.  If we add one of Nesmith or Langford plus the signed #1, the options expand even further.

One guy who would probably fit well?  Myles Turner. Lol.


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Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 09:28:55 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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Had this thought a couple times today. Of creating a topic asking; "Who's our best bench player?"

The point being; it's not a name like Griffin. Or Rondo. Or Rose. Or a Morris or a Gasol.

I think that's the biggest thing we lack. We expect a lot of our starting 5 - but I'd rather have 2 of those guys come off the bench.

Does that make sense, or is that just me? :)

Once he’s knocks the rust off, again... it should clearly be Evan Fournier. When he was first able to play for the C’s he had 2 bad games followed by two excellent ones. Hopefully he gets in game shape soon.

If the whole roster is available, I like the  C’s bench for the most part with Fournier, Pritchard, Thompson, and Parker. I’d like to see those guys get all of the backup minutes and shorten the rotation.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 09:31:54 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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TBH, this team is stuck.  Everything depends on the jays becoming super stars that elevate teammates.  Otherwise, there isn’t really any fringe moves that will make this team a real contender and there are no big moves that are realistic assuming you don’t want to include one of them.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 09:32:49 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Had this thought a couple times today. Of creating a topic asking; "Who's our best bench player?"

The point being; it's not a name like Griffin. Or Rondo. Or Rose. Or a Morris or a Gasol.

I think that's the biggest thing we lack. We expect a lot of our starting 5 - but I'd rather have 2 of those guys come off the bench.

Does that make sense, or is that just me? :)

Once he’s knocks the rust off, again... it should clearly be Evan Fournier. When he was first able to play for the C’s he had 2 bad games followed by two excellent ones. Hopefully he gets in game shape soon.

If the whole roster is available, I like the  C’s bench for the most part with Fournier, Pritchard, Thompson, and Parker. I’d like to see those guys get all of the backup minutes and shorten the rotation.
Not sure about adding Parker alone in that rotation. Most likely he and Grant would share time depending on match and what Brad decides he needs more in the game, offense or defense.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 10:05:36 AM »

Online Surferdad

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Other than Marcus Smart, I see a severe lack of leadership qualities in our best players.

Tatum is not a leader.  That lazy pass intercepted by Rozier shows he is not leader.  Great player yes, but not a leader.

Stevens is not a leader.  Great coach yes, but he has lost control of this team.

Quote
I think Ainge runs most of this team back. Stevens too.
 
I just don't see  that as a successful approach.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2021, 10:07:21 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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Had this thought a couple times today. Of creating a topic asking; "Who's our best bench player?"

The point being; it's not a name like Griffin. Or Rondo. Or Rose. Or a Morris or a Gasol.

I think that's the biggest thing we lack. We expect a lot of our starting 5 - but I'd rather have 2 of those guys come off the bench.

Does that make sense, or is that just me? :)

Once he’s knocks the rust off, again... it should clearly be Evan Fournier. When he was first able to play for the C’s he had 2 bad games followed by two excellent ones. Hopefully he gets in game shape soon.

If the whole roster is available, I like the  C’s bench for the most part with Fournier, Pritchard, Thompson, and Parker. I’d like to see those guys get all of the backup minutes and shorten the rotation.
Not sure about adding Parker alone in that rotation. Most likely he and Grant would share time depending on match and what Brad decides he needs more in the game, offense or defense.

It’s not just offense and defense, though.

Grants Per 36: 8pts, 5 reb, 2ast

Parkers per 36: 16pts, 9reb, 3 ast

Grant is an average defender and Parker is below average, but after that, Parker has the edge in almost every category. I also don’t think Jabaris D is as bad as people were saying.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2021, 10:13:21 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Other than Marcus Smart, I see a severe lack of leadership qualities in our best players.

Tatum is not a leader.  That lazy pass intercepted by Rozier shows he is not leader.  Great player yes, but not a leader.

Stevens is not a leader.  Great coach yes, but he has lost control of this team.

Quote
I think Ainge runs most of this team back. Stevens too.
 
I just don't see  that as a successful approach.

We need someone in the mold of Pierce or KG. Legit go to guys and emotional leaders to lift the team’s spirit up when the chips are down. I was hoping JB could be that guy but apparently he’s more of a “lead by example” type of player as opposed to a vocal leader. How I miss the IT days. A healthy IT would have been perfect for this team.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 10:32:01 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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First off, I think a lot of what happened this year is due to a very short off-season. Tatum, Stevens and Celtic owner Steve Pagliuca have all linked the poor performance this year to that. I think it’s real as, of the 8 teams that were in the final 8 of the playoffs last year, only Utah and the Clippers have outperformed their records from last year. 3 of the 4 final teams have fallen off precipitously due to missed player games. A usual 5-6 month recuperation period was reduced to 2.5-3 month time frame. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. So I think more normal off-season period is going to help this team immensely.

Second, I think Ainge runs most of this team back. Stevens too. I don’t think Kemba, Smart, the Jays, Timelord, Fournier and Pritchard are going anywhere. I also don’t see Semi, Tacko, Waters or Edwards returning. Everyone else, the remaining TPE and our draft picks could be used as trade bait. I don’t see all of the remaining players (Thompson, Grant, Nesmith, Langford, Kornet and Parker) not being brought back, but I do think some will be gone in trades.

Third, the team will only have the non-taxpayer MLE to use in free agency. We have to remember that using the taxpayer MLE and the bi-annual exception hard caps teams, so neither will be used. Also not being used will be and sign and trades, for the same reason, the hard cap it causes.

As for the draft, I think if Ainge ends up deciding to keep Nesmith and Langford that the pick will be moved. I don’t see Danny wanting to add even more youth, other than maybe Yam Mader on a two way contract and another project guy they can throw into a two-way deal.

So what does he do? If Ainge moves Thompson, a player like Jakob Poetl could fit into the remaining TPE. Players like Nerlens Noel, Rishaun Holmes, Gorgui Dieng and Robin Lopez might be had for the taxpayer MLE. Some other interesting and attainable guys that could fit in the TPE include: Jeremy Lamb, Tomas Satoransky, George Hill, Delon Wright, JaMychal Green, Juancho Hernangomez, Justin Holiday and Zach Collins. A couple of interesting trade targets could be Thaddeus Young, Jonas Valanciunas (this probably means moving Timelord as he fits the Grizzlies timeline better than Jonas) and Danilo Gallinari.

If you see a trend in my suggestions it’s to add a veteran presence and some size. I think those are components this team needs if they keep their core.

Overall, I think the fastest way for this team to improve is for their core to be healthy, playing together and, for the youth, maturing their games. After that, it’s tinkering, adding some quality depth and hoping their two stars take another leap forward.

Let’s remember, Brown and Tatum will only be 25 and 24 years old next year. It took both MJ and LeBron until they were 27, just entering their prime, before they won their first titles, so expectations of a title next year should be set accordingly. I think it’s possible the Jay duo could win a title before reaching 27 years of age, but young stars that lead their teams to titles is a rare thing. It might not be until 2022-23 that we can see this team becoming a legit title contender.

Let's also remember that all this could be upended by ownership if they decide they don't want to pay a huge luxury tax bill. The team has made huge profits for close on two decades. This ownership group has seen their initial $360 million investment to buy the team blossom into the franchise now being worth $3.2 billion. They've made their money and said they would pay the tax for a contender, but how much are they willing to pay? I guess we will have to wait and see.

Great post.  Despite the disappointing mercurial season there’s still much to be hopeful for.  A good off-season with rest, keep the core, and have some improvement to the current roster would be great.

I wish I understood the bolded paragraph better in terms of actual luxury tax burden and owner mindset.  Owning a basketball team and being legit (believable) fans, you’d have to think the priority of this ownership group is winning. However commitment to shareholders would also seem to mean prioritizing profit. Obviously the two can go hand in hand much of the time but don’t always.  It would be frustrating nonetheless that a franchise that has been very profitable and that has grown a $billion in value in what 20 years (?) would be pulling purse strings too tightly. I’m not saying profit can ever be a non-consideration, but I hope the balance leans heavily to let’s get the right players to win another championship.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2021, 10:43:29 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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what I think they'll do to improve isn't the same as what I want them to do to improve.

What I think:
Danny basically brings almost everyone back. 
- He's able to resign Fournier but Fournier's performance the rest of the season could lead to some contentious negotiating.
- Kornet's contract is allowed to expire
- Semi's contract is allowed to expire
- C's 13 players under contract.  they sign their first rounder and and use their MLE money on a big to help Timelord and TT.
- Waters and Tacko are let go from their 2-way contracts and Danny finds other possibly useful deep bench players.

What I'd like to see happen
Low-hanging fruit:
- let Waters and Tacko go.  find better deep bench prospects
- Let Semi walk.  Let Kornet walk
- Move Edwards -- probably require using the second rounder and cash to pay off the contract to do so.
More difficult moves:
- Use a combination of Kemba, Smart, TT and GWill in a deal to get a real playmaking PG that can provide respectable scoring and defense as well as a 4/5 player that plays good D, rebounds and can at least reliably score around the basket if not also provide a reliable jumper out to 18 feet.

==> health SHOULD help this team but there's other real gaps that health won't fix like a PG that can handle the ball without getting stripped under pressure and can initiate the offense.  Smart is not the answer to this problem so if Kemba is moved, they still need a starting caliber PG.  The passing this year has been bad -- no one seems to be able to hit their man square in the chest or hands so they lose time lunging for the misfired pass thus allowing the D time to catch up to the pass.

They also need a big that can play and provide the type of skills a team needs from a big man.  Timelord's shown a lot of promise but can't stay on the court which is a big issue.  TT provides toughness and has been providing good rebounding the past few weeks but he really struggles to score around the rim.

Hopefully the J's continue to develop -- especially their ballhandling and passing.  they still have serious issues with getting stripped and making low quality passes.  Also need Romeo to get his scoring touch back as well as Nesmith.  having those 2 able to provide reliable scoring and D off the bench would make Smart and Fournier eventually expendable in trades.   Pritchard needs some consistency in his shooting.  not sure how much more upside he has but he's pretty solid already.  GWill needs to get it together to at least begin the next season at the same level he ended his rookie year when he was a reliable shooter and played good defense.  This has been a completely lost year for him and if he doesn't show major improvements, his time here should come to an end after next season (if he's not used in a trade this offseason).

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 10:44:02 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Other than Marcus Smart, I see a severe lack of leadership qualities in our best players.

Tatum is not a leader.  That lazy pass intercepted by Rozier shows he is not leader.  Great player yes, but not a leader.

Stevens is not a leader.  Great coach yes, but he has lost control of this team.

Quote
I think Ainge runs most of this team back. Stevens too.
 
I just don't see  that as a successful approach.

I see leadership in Marcus and somewhat with Kemba.  But I agree we need a Jay to step up. I’m encouraged by remembering Paul Pierce who grew significantly in leadership skills after his mid-twenties.

Re: How will the Celtics improve this off-season?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 10:47:55 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Not sure what they are planning but I'd be open to moving anyone but the Js.

I'd consider Christian Wood for Smart and a first. Smart is a Houston guy. Wood gives the team another scoring big.

I'd also look at Kemba for Ball sign and trade. Give Ball a Terry contract. Ball impacts the game beyond scoring. I feel it works for both team's goal.

Then resign Fournier.

So
Ball/PP/Yam
Fournier/Langford/Edwards
Brown/Nesmith/(2021 1st)
Tatum/Parker/Grant
Wood/TL/TT

Let everyone else go or trade them for picks.