JT vs PP

[CelticsBR]

I am surprised by Tatum averaging more assists than Pierce. From what I remember, late in his career one of the greatest things about PP was his ability to bring the ball down the court and play like a point guard.

[Alleyoopster]

The main thing from Pierce's game that Tatum has been missing is craftiness getting to the basket and drawing fouls.

The last few games Tatum has been really aggressive in taking over late when the team was going to lose otherwise.  He's gotten to the line a fair amount.  If he can keep up that kind of aggressive intensity, the Celts will be an entirely different kind of team.

Again, not fair - you're not comparing apples to apples. In the past few years it's been a lot harder for offensive players going to the hoop to get fouls called on the opposing players.

Sometimes players are getting hammered and there's no whistle. Other times their hands or wrists are slapped and there's no call.

It used to be, if you leaned into the player while slashing to the hoop you'd almost automatically draw a foul call. Those days are over. The defensive player has a lot more leeway in creating contact or avoiding fouling simply by standing his ground.   

[RPGenerate]

The main thing from Pierce's game that Tatum has been missing is craftiness getting to the basket and drawing fouls.

The last few games Tatum has been really aggressive in taking over late when the team was going to lose otherwise.  He's gotten to the line a fair amount.  If he can keep up that kind of aggressive intensity, the Celts will be an entirely different kind of team.

Again, not fair - you're not comparing apples to apples. In the past few years it's been a lot harder for offensive players going to the hoop to get fouls called on the opposing players.

Sometimes players are getting hammered and there's no whistle. Other times their hands or wrists are slapped and there's no call.

It used to be, if you leaned into the player while slashing to the hoop you'd almost automatically draw a foul call. Those days are over. The defensive player has a lot more leeway in creating contact or avoiding fouling simply by standing his ground.   

You can't possibly be serious, right?

[GreenEnvy]

Jayson Tatum  2020-21 4th NBA Season 2X All-Star 25.7 PPG 7.1 RPG 4.2 AST (Age 23)

Paul Pierce      2002-03 5th NBA Season 2X All Star 25.9 PPG 7.3 RPG 4.4 AST (Age 25)

I think your age is a little off.  At the start of the 2002 season, Pierce was 25 but 26 at the end (Born October 1977).  Tatum was 22 at the start of the 2020 season and turned 23 in March 2021.  You don't have apples to apples.  You either have to say they were 22/25 at the start of the season or 23/26 at the end.

Doesn't take away from the point though, perhaps even reinforces it.  Tatum is doing well as compared to Pierce and doing it at a younger age.

Pierce could draw more fouls and even if the numbers don't show it, Pierce was a better rebounder as he could muscle his way to getting some really important rebounds.  Tatum is a better pure shooter but not as versatile of an overall scorer (at least not yet).

What do you think he lacks in terms of scoring versatility?

ability to draw fouls and get the line.  Ability to put the team on his back in the fourth quarter and score down the stretch of close games.  a reliable go-to shot defenders can't stop --> a sidestep 3 isn't that shot.

Pierce just had more muscle and that allowed him to have an arsenal of shots that weren't jump shots or full out drives to the hoop.  As others have said, these were shots that would draw more fouls.

Tatum is still young.  All this may come for him but right now Tatum isn't great at muscling his way to tough buckets or fouls, something Pierce was able to do very well.

Another major component of Pierce’s scoring prowess that didn’t rely on quickness or strength was his innate ability to change speeds. Many of his contemporaries lauded the way he seamlessly adjusted his tempo to get where he wanted.

I think if Tatum can learn that, he can be a scoring champ.

[gouki88]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

[Big333223]

Like other have said, Tatum has a slightly higher ceiling. He's taller than Pierce, a little more athletic, and his offense is just so smooth. Pierce has incredibly skilled offensively and an underrated defender and he built his career on skill and craftiness.

Tatum has some gifts Pierce didn't have that raises his ceiling, but if he wants to get to that ceiling, he'd be smart to watch as much film on Pierce as he can.

[greg683x]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

[Rondo9]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

The Twolves game? Where if they lost they’re back below .500?

[dannyboy35]

 Tatum is an amazing bad shot maker. I’m relieved we have him. He’s a bad ballhandler. That’s it. Once he becomes a better ballhandler he’ll get to the line easier. It’s a lot of not fun back breaking drilling but once he improves this one skill I don’t know how he can be stopped . But it’s important he does improve it.

[gouki88]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

Game 5 against Philly in his rookie year he scored 10 in the 4th quarter to close the series.
Game 4 against Philly in the bubble he was the only Celtic to score over 4 points in the 4th quarter (he had 9), and he closed the series in a sweep.
Game 6 against Toronto, in OT2 Tatum scored 7 but was let down by the coaching in OT1 (no shots).
Game 5 against Miami Tatum scored 17 in the 3rd quarter to singlehandedly get us back in the game, backs against the wall. Not the 4th quarter, but just as important.

These are just the playoff games that I looked into briefly. In regular season games there are plenty more. Not sure if for some reason that doesn't fit your definition of 'taking over', but it's just as impressive as PP's early career playoff performances (he had a number of stinkers, especially against New Jersey and those 04-05 Indiana series')

[Donoghus]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

Game 5 against Philly in his rookie year he scored 10 in the 4th quarter to close the series.
Game 4 against Philly in the bubble he was the only Celtic to score over 4 points in the 4th quarter (he had 9), and he closed the series in a sweep.
Game 6 against Toronto, in OT2 Tatum scored 7 but was let down by the coaching in OT1 (no shots).
Game 5 against Miami Tatum scored 17 in the 3rd quarter to singlehandedly get us back in the game, backs against the wall. Not the 4th quarter, but just as important.

These are just the playoff games that I looked into briefly. In regular season games there are plenty more. Not sure if for some reason that doesn't fit your definition of 'taking over', but it's just as impressive as PP's early career playoff performances (he had a number of stinkers, especially against New Jersey and those 04-05 Indiana series')

Pierce has had a couple of playoff game ejections too.  Something Tatum has yet to achieve.

[gouki88]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

Game 5 against Philly in his rookie year he scored 10 in the 4th quarter to close the series.
Game 4 against Philly in the bubble he was the only Celtic to score over 4 points in the 4th quarter (he had 9), and he closed the series in a sweep.
Game 6 against Toronto, in OT2 Tatum scored 7 but was let down by the coaching in OT1 (no shots).
Game 5 against Miami Tatum scored 17 in the 3rd quarter to singlehandedly get us back in the game, backs against the wall. Not the 4th quarter, but just as important.

These are just the playoff games that I looked into briefly. In regular season games there are plenty more. Not sure if for some reason that doesn't fit your definition of 'taking over', but it's just as impressive as PP's early career playoff performances (he had a number of stinkers, especially against New Jersey and those 04-05 Indiana series')

Pierce has had a couple of playoff game ejections too.  Something Tatum has yet to achieve.

Ha, maybe one day. Although I think that will more likely be something Smart and TT rack up than Tatum

[greg683x]

The difference in free throw attempts is huge.  There are playoffs games that Pierce single handedly won for us just because the other team couldn’t keep him off the free throw line.  It’s a weapon he always had if his shot wasn’t falling.  If Tatums shot isn’t falling he has a tendency to disappear.

Pierce also had the clutch gene and could just take over games, I can’t think of one meaningful game that Tatum completely took over.

Really?

yes really.   Can you name a MEANINGFUL game that Tatum put this team on his back and completely took over a game in the 4th quarter?

Game 5 against Philly in his rookie year he scored 10 in the 4th quarter to close the series.
Game 4 against Philly in the bubble he was the only Celtic to score over 4 points in the 4th quarter (he had 9), and he closed the series in a sweep.
Game 6 against Toronto, in OT2 Tatum scored 7 but was let down by the coaching in OT1 (no shots).
Game 5 against Miami Tatum scored 17 in the 3rd quarter to singlehandedly get us back in the game, backs against the wall. Not the 4th quarter, but just as important.

These are just the playoff games that I looked into briefly. In regular season games there are plenty more. Not sure if for some reason that doesn't fit your definition of 'taking over', but it's just as impressive as PP's early career playoff performances (he had a number of stinkers, especially against New Jersey and those 04-05 Indiana series')

Fair enough, these are meaningful games where he didn’t disappear and he did show up, so yes technically you’re right.  For me though there’s still something missing.  Pierce would have games in the playoffs that I would call statement games.  Like a game 7, or some kind of pivotal game, Pierce would just drop 40 points and just own the game.  The close out game against Philly in 2002, the Pierce/Lebron game 7 battle in 2008 are a couple that immediately come to mind. 

Perhaps I’m putting Pierce up on too much a pedestal, but I do think there’s merit to my point

[tenn_smoothie]

I believe Tatum needs a strong influence to lead this group to title contention the way Pierce did. Pierce wins nothing without Garnett.
Yes, Garnett brought All-NBA talent, but he changed the culture of that team and taught them mental toughness and how to compete.

[Kiorrik]

We'll see after this season.

He's got something to prove now. This team will need to fight. This year we've underperformed hard, if you were to go off expectations. So let's see if he puts us on his back. Or if he has to, in the playoffs.

(Guess what I'm saying is; let's give him a chance!)