Why can’t we get to the line?

[LilRip]

I haven’t checked the stats but it wouldn’t surprise me if we ranked in the bottom 10 in FTA

Sure, we love shooting threes but our main guys still go to the hoop fairly often. Matter of fact, wasn’t Kemba a high volume free throw shooter in Charlotte? What gives? Do our guys just not know how to draw fouls? Can this be taught?

[Moranis]

The lack of attempts doesn't bother me as much as the fact that the C's opponents get to the line 3 more times per game.  Even that though is mostly a result of the C's offensive system with its focus on outside shooting.  I mean the only teams that are in both the top 10 for 3PA and FTA are the Rockets and Nets.  James Harden must still be having an effect in Houston (ha).

[ozgod]

According to Washburn, this is what happened vs. Philly:

Of the 27 field goal attempts from Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, 17 were 3-pointers. The Celtics, completely intimidated by Embiid, just stopped attacking the rim. Embiid played 33 minutes and committed one foul, which occurred with 5:50 left in the game and the Celtics down 20.

So they didn’t make Embiid work on defense at all. They settled for 3-pointers or forced themselves into bad shots with indecisiveness. Defensively, the Celtics again fell for all of Embiid’s tricks. He attempted 20 free throws and single-handedly fouled out Robert Williams in 14 minutes.

What’s more, Ben Simmons attempted more free throws than Tatum and Brown combined, a sign of a lack of aggressiveness and lack of physicality.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/07/sports/celtics-symptoms-defeat-familiar-mistake-laden-loss-76ers/

I posted this last night in the game thread when Washburn (probably needing quotes for his article), kept asking Brad why the Cs sucked at drawing fouls:

Gary Washburn was just asking Brad at the presser why the Celtics didn’t do the same as Philly in terms of drawing fouls. Brad was defending his two All Stars saying that Philly play a much more physical brand of basketball than someone like Tatum and brown who are much more perimeter players and are less physical when they drive the ball, they are more finesse players, and just have a different style of basketball and are much less physical.

Gary kept pushing that Cs were getting killed at the free throw line and need to get better at drawing fouls, Brad was pushing back saying tatum and brown just have a different style of basketball to Simmons and Harris and they will prob never match Philly for drawing fouls. Said obv Embiid is in a different league when it comes to drawing fouls.

Maybe because we have a rep as a finesse jump shooting team, when we do drive the ball we don't get the calls from the refs. Whereas players like Simmons really try to truck people on the way so they get calls.

To your point I did a quick analysis on Pho's a few numbers thread and Kemba's shot profile has changed since he became a Celtic. He's driving the ball less and shooting from 3 more as an overall % of his shot volume, and correspondingly his FTAs have dropped. Gordon had the same issue when he came to the Cs from Utah, albeit to a lesser degree, and with him going to Charlotte his FTAs have gone back up somewhat. So maybe it's a gameplan thing as well. I'd be careful to draw that conclusion at this point though.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

You answered your own question. Our offense has no balance.

[droopdog7]

Because we don't have guys that are good at getting to the line.  No need to overthink it, it's really that simple.

[PAOBoston]

Think it’s the overall system in place. I remember players like Hayward/Kemba getting to the line way more often when they were on other teams. I think there is focus on getting an open shot. That seems to be more outside jumpers and less of a focus on attaching and driving to the hoop. They do it sometimes and you’re like “why don’t they just always do it?” It’s definitely a mentality that needs to be drilled into this team and system. Too many times they fall flat on their face when jump shots don’t go in.

[Ogaju]

Think it’s the overall system in place. I remember players like Hayward/Kemba getting to the line way more often when they were on other teams. I think there is focus on getting an open shot. That seems to be more outside jumpers and less of a focus on attaching and driving to the hoop. They do it sometimes and you’re like “why don’t they just always do it?” It’s definitely a mentality that needs to be drilled into this team and system. Too many times they fall flat on their face when jump shots don’t go in.

You don’t get to the line when your anointed leader ..strolls the ball up and pounds the ball for 90% of the shot clock before he either jacks up a three or throws the ball to a teammate for a rushed shot? Referees are smart and are not in the business of bailing out soft players and soft play. They will however bailout aggressive play when it is clear that the defensive player is the one that is overpowered. The and ones come from aggressive play, you have to be aggressive to get foul calls and not soft fade away shots from three.

[tonydelk]

Multiple factors.  The C's definitely don't get the calls that Embiid and Simmons do.  It's crazy.

The C's don't post up enough.  Simmons time and time again drove to the post and went to work.  More often then not a player in the post as long as the J's will draw fouls.  When they drive the D just collapses and causes them to either pass out to a perimeter player or turnover if the opening is not there.

The C's don't have a guy that seals off players like Theis did.  He was masterful at this.

The C's don't have players that cut to the hoop off of drives like other teams do.  Avery Bradly was a master at this and got 1-3 hoops per game off of a cut.  The team just stands at the line while the J's or Kemba drive to the hole.  It helps when the Timelord is there to clean up misses but he needs to continue to improve his positioning that opens up space for the drivers. 

All of the above seems like coaching to me.  It's not that the team is full of finesse players they have a finesse system.

[ozgod]

Multiple factors.  The C's definitely don't get the calls that Embiid and Simmons do.  It's crazy.

The C's don't post up enough.  Simmons time and time again drove to the post and went to work.  More often then not a player in the post as long as the J's will draw fouls.  When they drive the D just collapses and causes them to either pass out to a perimeter player or turnover if the opening is not there.

The C's don't have a guy that seals off players like Theis did.  He was masterful at this.

The C's don't have players that cut to the hoop off of drives like other teams do.  Avery Bradly was a master at this and got 1-3 hoops per game off of a cut.  The team just stands at the line while the J's or Kemba drive to the hole.  It helps when the Timelord is there to clean up misses but he needs to continue to improve his positioning that opens up space for the drivers.

All of the above seems like coaching to me.  It's not that the team is full of finesse players they have a finesse system.

It's because they're trying to get the 3s so they're mostly at the perimeter for the drive and kick. They did try cutting to the rim when Tatum or Smart drove to the basket last night but they muffed the passes because they were high risk bounce passes trying to thread the needle between defenses. Partly execution issue and partly difficulty level. Smart in particular tries the most difficult, high risk type of passes possible, because that's his nature. Like they would be red passes in NBA2k. He's a high risk high reward player who can turn a game either way depending on whether he executes properly or not.

[Tr1boy]

I haven’t checked the stats but it wouldn’t surprise me if we ranked in the bottom 10 in FTA

Sure, we love shooting threes but our main guys still go to the hoop fairly often. Matter of fact, wasn’t Kemba a high volume free throw shooter in Charlotte? What gives? Do our guys just not know how to draw fouls? Can this be taught?

Like Marcus Smart said

players don't want to pay a price

Tatum is soft.  I have never seen him pump fake, embrace contact to try to get to the line

Brown is a little better/fearless. But hasn't had whistle luck

Celts could really use TT.  He was the one guy that was able to consistently get to the line

[Tr1boy]

Delete

[Celtics4ever]

I haven’t checked the stats but it wouldn’t surprise me if we ranked in the bottom 10 in FTA

23rd in the NBA

[Yuckabuck33]

Coach Nick thinks that Tatum doesn't get to the line because he always drives with his head down and can't see the play developing so that he can force contact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOea2dBRPJc

[liam]

Coach Nick thinks that Tatum doesn't get to the line because he always drives with his head down and can't see the play developing so that he can force contact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOea2dBRPJc

I agree with this but why doesn't Jaylen get to the line more. He's like a whack a mole out there.

[ozgod]

@gouki88 mentioned this at the end of the game thread but in the past 3 games JT has taken 34 FTAs and hit 31 of them. He's made a much more concerted effort to attack the basket. Adds to the risk of injury of course but he's getting to the line a lot more.