Al Horford shut down

[GreenlyGreeny]

Maybe on draft day we can trade our pick ( mid teen) plus Kemba plus Thompson for Horford and Minnesota second rounder they own.
Salaries don’t need to match

Why would you trade an All-Star caliber PG in his late 20s, a first round pick and a quality role player for a good (but not elite) big man going on 35 who is pretty much untradeable and is recognised for having one of the worst contracts in the NBA?

Why would we not trade the worst contract in the NBA, with two years left on it after this year, for merely one of the worst expiring contracts in the NBA?

Al can still ball and helps his team win. That’s why OKC has shut him down.

Pretty sure I've pointed this out to you before, but Al and Kemba expire in the same year. Technically, Kemba could expire beforehand if he turned down his option, so you're even more incorrect there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/kemba-walker-8059/

Al is also a worse player than Kemba, and has started to deal with niggling injuries more frequently. He'd be a bench big who we'd be paying near-max money for two years. Disgusting.

Kemba’s fourth year is a player option, but Al’s fourth year is a team option. Clearly his fourth year will be declined by any team that has his rights. Clearly Kemba will not decline his fourth year.

Or at least that was my prior understanding. If instead Al’s contract drops to $14.5 million in 2022-2023 if his team does not make the Finals, or $19.5 million if they make an appearance but do not win, and the full $26.5 million if his team wins the title, that’s not so bad. If it’s still for some reason based on the 76ers, it’s practically guaranteed to be $14.5 million. Al’s like the mailman and will be a serviceable starter well into his 30s. Dude has paid his dues and deserves to be paid. Would rather pay Al $14.5 million (or even $26.5 million) than pay Kemba $37.6 million, especially if we continue to lose with Kemba.

[Big333223]

What if Okc was willing to attach a pick or two and take back whoever we can get back for Kemba? Would we rather have Walker or Horford? Who might want to take Kemba along with his contract? Knicks, Magic,  Mavs, Clippers, Wolves, Bulls? It seems to me like somebody should like him, but I don’t see a clear candidate...
If we could turn Kemba + Thompson into Horford + picks + salary relief or a useful player, I’d be all for it!

I think you are severely underrating Kemba.

Maybe I am underrating him. But he’s an undersized player with chronic knee injury and lately also some consistency issues. I also don’t believe I said that the team trading for Kemba would not give anything of value for him - I don’t think it will be much, if it happens, but maybe someone would be willing to give anything substantial for him. So if he can become a centerpiece of a trade for, let’s say, Bradley Beal, then great. I don’t think Kemba is an all-star-level-player anymore, but he’s paid like one, which would make moving him problematic.
I’ll try to re-articulate my thoughts - if we create a TPE by trading Kemba into another team’s cap space, would we want to absorb Horford with some picks or a young player from OKC into this space? I’d be okay with it, but not for a mere second-rounder.

What do you consider lately?

Over the last 6 weeks(17 games so not a small sample size)  Kemba has been averaging 19.8 points, 3.5 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.3 steals with shooting splits of 42.4/38.9/94.7 and he has drawn like 8 or 9 charges in that time.

That's dang good and those numbers have been very consistent.

I’d consider lately to be pretty much since coming to Boston. I like Kemba, but I believe he’s a liability on defense, hasn’t been that great in the playoffs, has a huge contract and is not particularly young. I am also not sure, if 17 games is that much of a sample size, but that’s not the point.
I don’t get, why my question about Horford’s and Kemba’s trade value seems to be so outrageous. There are many posts in other threads stating that we’d have to attach picks to Kemba in order to trade him (or rather dump him). I don’t think I was really that unfair in my assessment. Frankly, I never said that we couldn’t get anything for Kemba, I just wondered, if others thought that getting Horford in the Kemba deal would be an ok return.
I am not a regular poster, I guess that being a long time reader doesn’t translate, but I’m surprised how far the answers are from my question.
Anyhow, I hope the team turned the corner after the deadline, got their head into the game and is going to compete for a championship so that it doesn’t need rebuilding, but rather some minor improvements. Go Cs!

Because of his contract, not because of his play. And because of the injury. If the injury persists Kemba is dead weight but if he can stay reasonably healthy, he's a good NBA starter. Horford is about to turn 35 and was just shut down by his team because no one in the NBA wants his contract.

[ETNCeltics]

I don't follow how the NBA is permitting this. He's not injured. If he doesn't want to play, then he should have no recourse but to accept a buyout. If they don't want to play him, sorry, the league can't allow such blatant tanking.

[jambr380]

Maybe on draft day we can trade our pick ( mid teen) plus Kemba plus Thompson for Horford and Minnesota second rounder they own.
Salaries don’t need to match

Why would you trade an All-Star caliber PG in his late 20s, a first round pick and a quality role player for a good (but not elite) big man going on 35 who is pretty much untradeable and is recognised for having one of the worst contracts in the NBA?

Why would we not trade the worst contract in the NBA, with two years left on it after this year, for merely one of the worst expiring contracts in the NBA?

Al can still ball and helps his team win. That’s why OKC has shut him down.

Pretty sure I've pointed this out to you before, but Al and Kemba expire in the same year. Technically, Kemba could expire beforehand if he turned down his option, so you're even more incorrect there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/kemba-walker-8059/

Al is also a worse player than Kemba, and has started to deal with niggling injuries more frequently. He'd be a bench big who we'd be paying near-max money for two years. Disgusting.

Kemba’s fourth year is a player option, but Al’s fourth year is a team option. Clearly his fourth year will be declined by any team that has his rights. Clearly Kemba will not decline his fourth year.

Or at least that was my prior understanding. If instead Al’s contract drops to $14.5 million in 2022-2023 if his team does not make the Finals, or $19.5 million if they make an appearance but do not win, and the full $26.5 million if his team wins the title, that’s not so bad. If it’s still for some reason based on the 76ers, it’s practically guaranteed to be $14.5 million. Al’s like the mailman and will be a serviceable starter well into his 30s. Dude has paid his dues and deserves to be paid. Would rather pay Al $14.5 million (or even $26.5 million) than pay Kemba $37.6 million, especially if we continue to lose with Kemba.

This is not correct about Al. Even though he is only guaranteed $14.5M, a team only pays that amount if they cut him. If he stays on the roster, then he is due the full $26.5M. So a team will need to decide if Al is worth $12M to play for them (difference between $14.5M and $26.5M), because he is getting that $14.5M no matter what.

Al may very well be cut and that could save a team (likely the Thunder) a lot of money in that last year over Kemba, but you are really talking about an $11M difference in 22-23, not $23M, if they are both to play that last year.

[Surferdad]

It’s a shame. If they’d buy him out I’d rather have Horford than Drummond added to this team. What a waste.

THIS.  He would be perfect back with this team.  A passing big-man with deep playoff experience who knows the system.

[nickagneta]

Maybe on draft day we can trade our pick ( mid teen) plus Kemba plus Thompson for Horford and Minnesota second rounder they own.
Salaries don’t need to match

Why would you trade an All-Star caliber PG in his late 20s, a first round pick and a quality role player for a good (but not elite) big man going on 35 who is pretty much untradeable and is recognised for having one of the worst contracts in the NBA?

Why would we not trade the worst contract in the NBA, with two years left on it after this year, for merely one of the worst expiring contracts in the NBA?

Al can still ball and helps his team win. That’s why OKC has shut him down.

Pretty sure I've pointed this out to you before, but Al and Kemba expire in the same year. Technically, Kemba could expire beforehand if he turned down his option, so you're even more incorrect there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/kemba-walker-8059/

Al is also a worse player than Kemba, and has started to deal with niggling injuries more frequently. He'd be a bench big who we'd be paying near-max money for two years. Disgusting.

Kemba’s fourth year is a player option, but Al’s fourth year is a team option. Clearly his fourth year will be declined by any team that has his rights. Clearly Kemba will not decline his fourth year.

Or at least that was my prior understanding. If instead Al’s contract drops to $14.5 million in 2022-2023 if his team does not make the Finals, or $19.5 million if they make an appearance but do not win, and the full $26.5 million if his team wins the title, that’s not so bad. If it’s still for some reason based on the 76ers, it’s practically guaranteed to be $14.5 million. Al’s like the mailman and will be a serviceable starter well into his 30s. Dude has paid his dues and deserves to be paid. Would rather pay Al $14.5 million (or even $26.5 million) than pay Kemba $37.6 million, especially if we continue to lose with Kemba.

This is not correct about Al. Even though he is only guaranteed $14.5M, a team only pays that amount if they cut him. If he stays on the roster, then he is due the full $26.5M. So a team will need to decide if Al is worth $12M to play for them (difference between $14.5M and $26.5M), because he is getting that $14.5M no matter what.

Al may very well be cut and that could save a team (likely the Thunder) a lot of money in that last year over Kemba, but you are really talking about an $11M difference in 22-23, not $23M, if they are both to play that last year.

You sure about this because this is hoophype's notes on that last year:

Only $14,500,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He would get $19,500,000 guaranteed if his team makes it to the NBA Finals in 2019/20, 2020/21 or 2021/22. His 2022/23 would be fully guaranteed if his team wins the NBA championship.

[Vermont Green]

To me, Kemba clearly has more value than Horford.  No way the Celtics are going to trade for Horford, including Kemba or otherwise.  Trading either player will be difficult but Kemba is playing well enough that we may be able to do something for him, if we want, in the off season.  I don't know how OKC is going to trade Horford.  No one is going to offer anything but equally bad contracts and why would OKC want to take that back?  Maybe something like Wiggins for Horford if GSW wanted to balance out their roster by adding a big?  But what does that really do for OKC?

[jambr380]

Maybe on draft day we can trade our pick ( mid teen) plus Kemba plus Thompson for Horford and Minnesota second rounder they own.
Salaries don’t need to match

Why would you trade an All-Star caliber PG in his late 20s, a first round pick and a quality role player for a good (but not elite) big man going on 35 who is pretty much untradeable and is recognised for having one of the worst contracts in the NBA?

Why would we not trade the worst contract in the NBA, with two years left on it after this year, for merely one of the worst expiring contracts in the NBA?

Al can still ball and helps his team win. That’s why OKC has shut him down.

Pretty sure I've pointed this out to you before, but Al and Kemba expire in the same year. Technically, Kemba could expire beforehand if he turned down his option, so you're even more incorrect there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/kemba-walker-8059/

Al is also a worse player than Kemba, and has started to deal with niggling injuries more frequently. He'd be a bench big who we'd be paying near-max money for two years. Disgusting.

Kemba’s fourth year is a player option, but Al’s fourth year is a team option. Clearly his fourth year will be declined by any team that has his rights. Clearly Kemba will not decline his fourth year.

Or at least that was my prior understanding. If instead Al’s contract drops to $14.5 million in 2022-2023 if his team does not make the Finals, or $19.5 million if they make an appearance but do not win, and the full $26.5 million if his team wins the title, that’s not so bad. If it’s still for some reason based on the 76ers, it’s practically guaranteed to be $14.5 million. Al’s like the mailman and will be a serviceable starter well into his 30s. Dude has paid his dues and deserves to be paid. Would rather pay Al $14.5 million (or even $26.5 million) than pay Kemba $37.6 million, especially if we continue to lose with Kemba.

This is not correct about Al. Even though he is only guaranteed $14.5M, a team only pays that amount if they cut him. If he stays on the roster, then he is due the full $26.5M. So a team will need to decide if Al is worth $12M to play for them (difference between $14.5M and $26.5M), because he is getting that $14.5M no matter what.

Al may very well be cut and that could save a team (likely the Thunder) a lot of money in that last year over Kemba, but you are really talking about an $11M difference in 22-23, not $23M, if they are both to play that last year.

You sure about this because this is hoophype's notes on that last year:

Only $14,500,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He would get $19,500,000 guaranteed if his team makes it to the NBA Finals in 2019/20, 2020/21 or 2021/22. His 2022/23 would be fully guaranteed if his team wins the NBA championship.

I guess I am not sure and am just basing it off of what I heard when he signed the contract. It was always my understanding that he would just receive the full amount of his contract if he played it out through 22-23; but a team could cut him and only owe him [a guaranteed] $14.5M in that last year (not including Finals/Championship incentives). If that is not the case, then I apologize for putting out false information

[nickagneta]

Maybe on draft day we can trade our pick ( mid teen) plus Kemba plus Thompson for Horford and Minnesota second rounder they own.
Salaries don’t need to match

Why would you trade an All-Star caliber PG in his late 20s, a first round pick and a quality role player for a good (but not elite) big man going on 35 who is pretty much untradeable and is recognised for having one of the worst contracts in the NBA?

Why would we not trade the worst contract in the NBA, with two years left on it after this year, for merely one of the worst expiring contracts in the NBA?

Al can still ball and helps his team win. That’s why OKC has shut him down.

Pretty sure I've pointed this out to you before, but Al and Kemba expire in the same year. Technically, Kemba could expire beforehand if he turned down his option, so you're even more incorrect there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/kemba-walker-8059/

Al is also a worse player than Kemba, and has started to deal with niggling injuries more frequently. He'd be a bench big who we'd be paying near-max money for two years. Disgusting.

Kemba’s fourth year is a player option, but Al’s fourth year is a team option. Clearly his fourth year will be declined by any team that has his rights. Clearly Kemba will not decline his fourth year.

Or at least that was my prior understanding. If instead Al’s contract drops to $14.5 million in 2022-2023 if his team does not make the Finals, or $19.5 million if they make an appearance but do not win, and the full $26.5 million if his team wins the title, that’s not so bad. If it’s still for some reason based on the 76ers, it’s practically guaranteed to be $14.5 million. Al’s like the mailman and will be a serviceable starter well into his 30s. Dude has paid his dues and deserves to be paid. Would rather pay Al $14.5 million (or even $26.5 million) than pay Kemba $37.6 million, especially if we continue to lose with Kemba.

This is not correct about Al. Even though he is only guaranteed $14.5M, a team only pays that amount if they cut him. If he stays on the roster, then he is due the full $26.5M. So a team will need to decide if Al is worth $12M to play for them (difference between $14.5M and $26.5M), because he is getting that $14.5M no matter what.

Al may very well be cut and that could save a team (likely the Thunder) a lot of money in that last year over Kemba, but you are really talking about an $11M difference in 22-23, not $23M, if they are both to play that last year.

You sure about this because this is hoophype's notes on that last year:

Only $14,500,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He would get $19,500,000 guaranteed if his team makes it to the NBA Finals in 2019/20, 2020/21 or 2021/22. His 2022/23 would be fully guaranteed if his team wins the NBA championship.

I guess I am not sure and am just basing it off of what I heard when he signed the contract. It was always my understanding that he would just receive the full amount of his contract if he played it out through 22-23; but a team could cut him and only owe him [a guaranteed] $14.5M in that last year (not including Finals/Championship incentives). If that is not the case, then I apologize for putting out false information

It's cool my friend. I get stuff wrong, like everyday. TP.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Why is Al’s fourth year so unclear? Haha

In any case, if Al joined us and helped us win, I’d rather have that than Kemba if having Kemba means losing. Horford helps his teams win. That’s why they shut him down because clearly OKC wants one of the top picks. The money we’ve sunk into Kemba is sunk and if we could instead sink it into Horford, it’s worth it if it improves our odds of winning. Because of the commitment to Kemba, we’re stuck overpaying someone unless we’re willing to part with a first in a salary dump.

[gouki88]

Why is Al’s fourth year so unclear? Haha

In any case, if Al joined us and helped us win, I’d rather have that than Kemba if having Kemba means losing. Horford helps his teams win. That’s why they shut him down because clearly OKC wants one of the top picks. The money we’ve sunk into Kemba is sunk and if we could instead sink it into Horford, it’s worth it if it improves our odds of winning. Because of the commitment to Kemba, we’re stuck overpaying someone unless we’re willing to part with a first in a salary dump.

OKC have a higher winning percentage without Horford than they do with him