Author Topic: JT, JB, TL, and PP is our core. How to focus on them this year and beyond  (Read 4379 times)

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Offline Boise To Boston

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The more I watch and rewatch Celtics games, it's becoming more and more apparent to me that the players who will make an impact on this team 2-3 years from now when the Celtics hit their prime are Brown, Tatum, Pritchard, and Time Lord.  The point I cannot emphasize enough is that that group won't hit its collective prime for another 2-3 years.  So how do we get that group ready?  Reps.  Lots of reps.  Reps in the regular season.  And Reps deep into the playoffs.

That is a bit of a catch-22 for sure.  Brad clearly doesn't feel that that best way to win on a night in and night-out basis is by playing those guys (TL and PP specifically).   But I think it's time to throw them into the fire for 28-36 minutes a night, including crunch time.  And I think we also need to make moves that will help that group have deeper playoff runs now.  So the question becomes:  How do you build around those four guys while maximizing their playoff reps now in preparation to try and hand banners in the middle and second half of this decade?

First things first, with those four on the floor what do you really need?  In my opinion Timelord is an above average passer, while PP, JT, and JB are roughly average facilitators.  That's my way of stating what we already know:  we need a shot creator! 

Second, I think our team in general, regardless of who is on the court, is at its best when Tatum is playing the 4, not the 3.  To that end I think we should be looking for wings and guards, not bigs to add to TL and Theis (who I'm hopeful we can resign to something like a 4-year, $32m deal this summer).

Third, While PP can play off ball (and does it really well) as a 2-guard, we really can't be pairing him with a smaller guard.  So to that end, I think we need a larger guard to play with him while JB plays the 3, or alternatively a wing who can slide JB over to the 2.

So what does that mean for our current trade targets?

First and foremost, we DON'T need a center.  Not unless that center's name is Miles Turner and we are ready to move off of TL completely, which I'm not.  So for me, hard pass on Vucevic.

Second, we don't need another player cut from the same cloth as Tatum and Brown - outstanding overall players with adequate but limited playmaking ability.  So I'm out on Aaron Gordon, Jerami Grant (as a primary target.  I would still LOVE him on this team), Fourniere, and Terrance Ross.  To that end, I'm also out on Bradley Beal.  It just wouldn't work.  That aren't enough shots or facilitators to drive a Brown/Beal/Tatum team because that big three doesn't have the passer that the nets or LBJ big-threes have had.  So I'm out on those guys.  Hard pass on whatever Godfather Offer would be required to get Beal.

So what does that leave us with?  We could definitely use a wing like Harrison Barnes.  But beyond that I think we need a PG like Goran Dragic.  Lonzo Ball would be perfect.  Someone like Ricky Rubio could work.  Jrue Holiday would have been great.  Ditto for Conley.  In NBA2k I would love SGA or De'Aron Fox or Ja.  But I really think that is the type of player we need.  Good defender and passer who can penetrate and create at the guard spot.

Now could any of those players be had?  I don't know.  If Danny could push his chips to the middle of the table for Lonzo I think he should do it.  Aside from him I don't know what is available.  But I do know that he is the type of player we need.


Offline droopdog7

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.

Offline GreenEnvy

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I’d like to try to improve the team without moving:

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Pritchard
R. Williams
Theis

Everyone else can go. Kemba would be the next hardest to trade because he’s such a likable guy and we know his upside. Thompson would be the easiest, I’d dump him for nothing.
CELTICS 2024

Offline pearljammer10

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I’d like to try to improve the team without moving:

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Pritchard
R. Williams
Theis

Everyone else can go. Kemba would be the next hardest to trade because he’s such a likable guy and we know his upside. Thompson would be the easiest, I’d dump him for nothing.

Agree with this six 1,000% percent.

Offline Moranis

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Tatum is the only guy I would call a core piece.  I'm fine with Brown, but I'd absolutely move him if the right deal came along.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline gouki88

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.
PP will be a future All-Star. Book it
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline hwangjini_1

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.
PP will be a future All-Star. Book it
done. a friendly tp bet that pp never is an all star in his career.

hmmmmm....it looks that i made a poor bet since i will need to wait over a decade to collect.  ;D

if pp is a key member of the celtics core, the celtics have big troubles. i really like pp, but he is not an upper echelon nba talent.
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Offline Kuberski33

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.
To me he looks more like a rookie who's hit the wall. If he's your starter your team is in the lottery.

Offline gouki88

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.
PP will be a future All-Star. Book it
done. a friendly tp bet that pp never is an all star in his career.

hmmmmm....it looks that i made a poor bet since i will need to wait over a decade to collect.  ;D

if pp is a key member of the celtics core, the celtics have big troubles. i really like pp, but he is not an upper echelon nba talent.
You just wait, PP will have a Kyle Lowry-esque career
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline liam

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I'm posting this over here too:

Brown and Tatum took 50 of the 88 shots the Celtics had. Smart and Grant Williams had 17 shots.  That's 67 of 88 shots. I'm posting this again because no other team in the league is freezing out the other players like this. Other teams give the ball to the hot hand. That's why some guy you never heard of is always lighting us up and none of our bench guys ever gets enough shots to ever go off. 67 0f 88 shots for 4 guys.

That's losing basketball.

PP and TL 9-11 shooting. Maybe they should get more shots.

Offline Celtics4ever

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I thought Grant rebounded well last night which was a first.   But any game where he is playing over 4-10 minutes is most likely going to be a loss.  It is absurd that he played 22 minutes given his season stats.  It is things like this lack of talent that kills our bench.   We are a top heavy team and the drop off in our talent is precipitous.  Thing is one would think it would l be easy upgrading our bench would not take as much assets.   But Ainge is in love with their guys seems to not realize that depth matters.  It is also demoralizing when you can play and you know when they take you out there is going to be a big time drop off.  There is a reason, Brown is hyping Rob and PP and not the other guys.   I hope DA makes a move because JB and JT could use some help.   Some of these guys have finite ceilings they are not going to improve that much.

 I don't know how anyone can think PP is part of core.   He has been a pleasant surprise but seems to have hit the rookie wall as noted above.    I honestly don't see much more than backup PG.  While I agree with your sentiment, I think he is a NBA player I am skeptical he is a star in the making.   I would like to see that and he is smart heady and can shoot.  I like him, I like his game but don't see him as part of our untouchable core.   He is way better than some of our other guards like Carsen or Tremont.  He shoots better, makes better decision and is scrappy.

Offline Surferdad

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I’d like to try to improve the team without moving:

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Pritchard
R. Williams
Theis

Everyone else can go. Kemba would be the next hardest to trade because he’s such a likable guy and we know his upside. Thompson would be the easiest, I’d dump him for nothing.
This is close to my thinking but not as high on Theis as you are.  Theis is fine as a 4 with a bigger 5 next to him.  He clearly doesn't have the strength to hold his own in the low post which is why Ainge picked up Thompson.

I like Kemba a lot and always have going back to UConn.  Unfortunately, he gets burned frequently on defense, just not tall enough PG for my liking.  However, he's great a taking charges often at a key moment in the game.

Offline Sophomore

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I'm posting this over here too:

Brown and Tatum took 50 of the 88 shots the Celtics had. Smart and Grant Williams had 17 shots.  That's 67 of 88 shots. I'm posting this again because no other team in the league is freezing out the other players like this. Other teams give the ball to the hot hand. That's why some guy you never heard of is always lighting us up and none of our bench guys ever gets enough shots to ever go off. 67 0f 88 shots for 4 guys.

That's losing basketball.

PP and TL 9-11 shooting. Maybe they should get more shots.

The most disheartening thing was the first half. Tatum launched shot after shot early in the clock. Clang, clang, clang. You could tell: he thought they just had to show up in Cleveland and they could shoot themselves past the Cavs. They weren’t going to put forth the effort to get good shots. I wonder what it’s going to take for Tatum not to do that.

Offline Sophomore

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PP?  PP?  He’s already part of our core?  He’s like a role player, average starter at best.
PP will be a future All-Star. Book it

I like PP, but I think his ceiling is a little short of Fred van Vleet. Pretty good, and a solid sixth man, but not all star. I like your book better so I’ll hope I’m wrong.

Offline BruceBanner18

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I read complaints about shot selection but it's what our core players do best. We need to lean into it. Quick offense, fast break points, pressure defense.

If Orlando is interested in Kemba's, a hypothetical return of Gordon and Ball (for insurance) would team up 7 guys who's games are instinctively fast paced, aggressive on both ends of the floor.

Ball, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Time Lord, PP, Smart

I'm not saying that team wins this year, but it's a roster that is cohesive style-wise and could grow into a really tough team to play...and a fun team to watch.