Trade Idea: Brown for Fox and Barnes

[Celtics4ever]

I'd hate to give up Jaylen, love his game.

Yet this is what the second thread today you have either proposed to trade him or regretted we didn't trade him.   Hence, I don't buy you love his game.

[wdleehi]

No, I would not make this trade. 


The only reason the Celtics should trade Brown is if it is a clear up grade next to Tatum.   This is not it.   Celtics are trading away a better player (even if it is close) in a move that makes the teams backcourt even smaller.

Fox and Brown is debatable as to who is better.  Adding Barnes makes it clearly better for Celtics. 

We need a PG who can utilize Rob Williams better. If James Harden was on the team, Rob Williams would be averaging 20 points a game right now. Watch Nets games.  Fox isn't Harden, but he is a very good passer, and able to penetrate into the middle among the elite.

I think it is easier to find more passing then more defenders like Brown.   And I also think if the Celtics want Barnes, they can add him without getting rid of Brown.   


So it comes down to Brown or Fox.   I much rather Brown.


As for Harden, we need to stop thinking he would be playing the same way here as he is with the Nets.   They have Durant and Irving.   Clearly he respects them more.   Just look at how he played with Paul or Westbrook. 

[RJ87]

I'd hate to give up Jaylen, love his game.

Yet this is what the second thread today you have either proposed to trade him or regretted we didn't trade him.   Hence, I don't buy you love his game.

It's the 3rd thread he's made, actually.

[liam]

What does this trade do for our roster exactly?

[slamtheking]

Hard no.

why?

A. we're giving up the best player in the deal.  You don't trade a dollar for 2 50-cent pieces.
B. if you have an issue with the playmaking on this team, start with the PG who's supposed to run the offense, not the guys who are supposed to be the finishers on the team OR take it up with the coach who's installed the offense run by this team

I've never been a fan of score-first PGs.  I find they don't work well with a multi-pass offense like the one Brad says he wants to use.  (This team is not running one, at least effectively, because there's still too much iso offense and part of that is on the PG.)  I have no issue with looking to move on from Kemba to get a more pass-first PG to start with the J's but I'm not moving either of those guys to fill that role.  There's other options out there.

Fox averages nearly 8 assists a game. We're currently paying one averaging 4.5 a game over $34MM a year.

and that is your response to what exactly?  are you saying that 8 assists makes him a better player than Jaylen?  are you saying that means he's a pass-first PG? 

[footey]

It gives us an elite play making PG who is entering his prime, something we sorely lack and need.

[slamtheking]

It gives us an elite play making PG who is entering his prime, something we sorely lack and need.

I disagree on both counts.

'eilite' to me is CP3 or Rondo in terms of playmaking.  Fox isn't on that level.

sorely need?  no.  we could use one, but sorely need is an overstatement.  certainly not a need that requires moving Jaylen Brown to fill that need.

[Moranis]

I like Fox well enough, but I don't think I'd like Barnes or Tatum playing PF full time.  I don't really like that fit much at all. 

I might do it for Bagley though.  I know he has been a disappointment but I like Bagley's talent and he is much more suited to PF full time. 

So I'd probably do this

Fox, Bagley, Bjelica for Brown, Ojeleye, G. Williams

Works with all the poison pill considerations as well.  While that trade might not make Boston as good this season, I do think it would better set the team up to succeed in the future.

big risk on that deal -- really counting on Bagley developing into at least a top quality starter to even make that worth a momentary thought

I don't know, I'm sure there are plenty of basketball minds that would prefer Fox over Brown if they could have either one.  Getting better every year, still just in year 4.  24/7.5/3.5 this year decent enough efficiency.

[byennie]

Fox is talented, but I don't think there's a GM in the league who would rate him above Brown.

No reason to trade the best player in the deal, increase your payroll significantly, and create a logjam at point guard. Maybe if Brown wanted out.

[Moranis]

Fox is talented, but I don't think there's a GM in the league who would rate him above Brown.

No reason to trade the best player in the deal, increase your payroll significantly, and create a logjam at point guard. Maybe if Brown wanted out.

Fox has been better than Brown at every age/experience level.  It isn't crazy to think a team would prefer the guy that has been at every stage.  Brown did take a pretty big leap from year 4 to year 5 though, and maybe Fox doesn't have that in him. 

Either way I think they are comparable players so if I could swap them and get someone like Bagley for lesser parts, I'd probably do that.  Gives the team a shot at getting that 3rd piece to the puzzle.  Probably worth the risk.

[todd_days_41]

Hard no.

why?

A. we're giving up the best player in the deal.  You don't trade a dollar for 2 50-cent pieces.
B. if you have an issue with the playmaking on this team, start with the PG who's supposed to run the offense, not the guys who are supposed to be the finishers on the team OR take it up with the coach who's installed the offense run by this team

I've never been a fan of score-first PGs.  I find they don't work well with a multi-pass offense like the one Brad says he wants to use.  (This team is not running one, at least effectively, because there's still too much iso offense and part of that is on the PG.)  I have no issue with looking to move on from Kemba to get a more pass-first PG to start with the J's but I'm not moving either of those guys to fill that role.  There's other options out there.

Fox averages nearly 8 assists a game. We're currently paying one averaging 4.5 a game over $34MM a year.

and that is your response to what exactly?  are you saying that 8 assists makes him a better player than Jaylen?  are you saying that means he's a pass-first PG?

Nothing to do with Jaylen.

Point is: Fox is 12th in the league in assists -- can't see how averaging 24ppg along side this is a bad thing.

Who are these "other options out there" to replace Kemba?

[todd_days_41]

I like Fox well enough, but I don't think I'd like Barnes or Tatum playing PF full time.  I don't really like that fit much at all. 

I might do it for Bagley though.  I know he has been a disappointment but I like Bagley's talent and he is much more suited to PF full time. 

So I'd probably do this

Fox, Bagley, Bjelica for Brown, Ojeleye, G. Williams

Works with all the poison pill considerations as well.  While that trade might not make Boston as good this season, I do think it would better set the team up to succeed in the future.

big risk on that deal -- really counting on Bagley developing into at least a top quality starter to even make that worth a momentary thought

I don't know, I'm sure there are plenty of basketball minds that would prefer Fox over Brown if they could have either one.  Getting better every year, still just in year 4.  24/7.5/3.5 this year decent enough efficiency.

Bagley just broke his hand. 

[Birdman]

Bagley hurt again..he is worse than Romeo

[Tr1boy]

Why?  Because neither Brown nor Tatum is a legit playmaker.  To get an elite playmaker (Fox), you have to give up elite talent. 

A roster with Fox, Barnes and Tatum is better than a lineup with Brown and Tatum.  I think the trade off between Brown to Barnes is not that significant.  To get someone like Fox would make us special.  He could do a much better job of running the offense, something that Tatum and Brown are not equipped to do.  Fox would further unleash the upside of Rob Williams, who is under-utilized by his current team-mates. (Exhibit A: Watch how many lobs per game go to DeAndre Jordan from Harden and even Kyrie.  Tatum and Brown are below average play-makers; just don't have the skill set. Fox does).

This would necessitate trading Kemba in the off-season, but frankly I think the hand-writing is already on the wall to do that. We will be lucky to get a protected first round pick for him, and that's okay with me.

Starting Line Up:

Fox
Smart
Rob Williams
Tatum
Barnes

Bench:
Romeo
Pritchard
Thompson
Nesmith
Semi/Grant

I'm assuming Theis walks after the season as FA.

Thoughts?

I would consider

Walker would need to be traded to another team also

Fox can become unguardable in the 4th

[Goldstar88]

Hard no.

why?

I wouldn’t trade two non-all star players for an all-star.