Roster Construction around Tatum and Brown

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The jazz are a team built for the regular season, but watching them last night made me realize how deep they were compared to us. I like our top three compared to theirs, but then they have bogdon, ingles, Clarkson, favors, and O’Neal. Our bench is just too young. If we got development from 1-2 (rob williams is getting there), and another rotation guy, we could be right there with our depth.

[Sophomore]

Last night we had plenty of chances, but lost focus down the stretch. Again. Not sure what it is they need.

[Moranis]

I think Utah is a good case study in Roster Construction.  It starts with a top end wing or guard scorer (Mitchell).  We are good in that regard with Tatum and Brown.  Their next key player is a big who can score and defend.  That is the piece we don't have.  Their 3rd key piece is Conley who is a decent but not star PG who can pass and score at a reasonable level.  I think Kemba can be that.

So to me it comes back to having a better big in the mix than we have now.  Quite simple actually.  Doesn't have to be exactly like Gobert but just a better big than we have now.

The thing is, Utah is having a great season, but there is almost no one that actually thinks they have a real shot at winning the title.  I have yet to see a single expert project them as even coming out of the west and most have them behind both LA teams and a bunch put Denver ahead of them as well.  And I'm pretty confident that is because Mitchell and Gobert are very good players, but they aren't elite top tier players, and that matters.

They may melt under pressure, but I think they could win the whole thing, especially if the Lakers can't get AD at full strength.

I don't see their roster the way Vermont Green does.

To me the key is 7 legit 3 point shooters in rotation around Gobert, and they have committed to move the ball. They also have players that can produce under pressure like Mitchell and Conley, but mostly, its that they can consistently win the 3 point battle.

The big problem with a 3 point league is that its unreliable in a tight playoff game. But seven shooters (5 of whom can score in volume) smooths that out. A few guys can have a bad night and they can still outshoot you.

It has nothing to do with melting under pressure, it has to do with talent.  Utah doesn't have enough top end talent to really be considered a top tier team. 

[td450]

I think Utah is a good case study in Roster Construction.  It starts with a top end wing or guard scorer (Mitchell).  We are good in that regard with Tatum and Brown.  Their next key player is a big who can score and defend.  That is the piece we don't have.  Their 3rd key piece is Conley who is a decent but not star PG who can pass and score at a reasonable level.  I think Kemba can be that.

So to me it comes back to having a better big in the mix than we have now.  Quite simple actually.  Doesn't have to be exactly like Gobert but just a better big than we have now.

The thing is, Utah is having a great season, but there is almost no one that actually thinks they have a real shot at winning the title.  I have yet to see a single expert project them as even coming out of the west and most have them behind both LA teams and a bunch put Denver ahead of them as well.  And I'm pretty confident that is because Mitchell and Gobert are very good players, but they aren't elite top tier players, and that matters.

They may melt under pressure, but I think they could win the whole thing, especially if the Lakers can't get AD at full strength.

I don't see their roster the way Vermont Green does.

To me the key is 7 legit 3 point shooters in rotation around Gobert, and they have committed to move the ball. They also have players that can produce under pressure like Mitchell and Conley, but mostly, its that they can consistently win the 3 point battle.

The big problem with a 3 point league is that its unreliable in a tight playoff game. But seven shooters (5 of whom can score in volume) smooths that out. A few guys can have a bad night and they can still outshoot you.

It has nothing to do with melting under pressure, it has to do with talent.  Utah doesn't have enough top end talent to really be considered a top tier team.

It only matters whether you can get it done.

Top, top top end talent wins because its reliable, and the league's economics usually prevent teams from having 7-8 really good players. LeBron and Kawhi make a few more plays under pressure than anyone else. Role players almost always shrink when it matters.

Mitchell can go off once in a while but no, he's not an MVP candidate. But they've also got Conley, Ingles and Bogdanović, and I wouldn't be so sure those three don't hold up under pressure against the top teams. They have a lot of experience. If we had those 3 guys instead of Ojeleye, Walker and Thompson, we'd probably be 29-10.

Like I said, any one or two of those guys can have a bad game any night and they can still outshoot you. Then they have a next tier of Clarkson, Niang and O'Neal who can all hit 3's too. They don't have the top end talent but they have more shooters than anyone else and might win anyway.

[PhoSita]

The jazz are a team built for the regular season, but watching them last night made me realize how deep they were compared to us. I like our top three compared to theirs, but then they have bogdon, ingles, Clarkson, favors, and O’Neal. Our bench is just too young. If we got development from 1-2 (rob williams is getting there), and another rotation guy, we could be right there with our depth.

The simplest way I can put it is this:


If you have one of the 5 worst benches in the league, it's going to be very hard to be especially good even if you have one of the 5 best starting lineups in the league.

(to be clear -- I think both of those points are debatable, but I think the Celts are in range on both)

[Who]

I see Utah as a legit threat to win the title for a few reasons and I view Donovan Mitchell as the main reason why.

(1) Donovan Mitchell is not an elite scorer but he is the next rung down and for my money a better scorer than someone like Giannis. Unlike Giannis, you can't game plan Mitchell out of a game. Mitchell has enough scoring versatility (with some playmaking added in) to score against any type of defender / team defense. His ability to score from outside, on long twos, from midrange, floaters in the lane when he can't get to the rim and finish at the rim while creating any and all of these opportunities off the dribble makes him one of the finest scorers in the league.

(2) Terrific depth. They got a lot of a quality.

(3) Loads of shooters. An insane amount of shooters. Clarkson taking that next step and adding a 3 to his repertoire is a big gain for him.

(4) I thought they needed a big four to win without an elite top 10 type talent to build around but they are doing darn good with Conley, Mitchell and Gobert as a Big Three + loads of depth. Bogdanovic is not quite a Big Four but he isn't miles away either.


I see Mitchell as the #1 reason why Utah can win a title - not Gobert. Gobert's inability to maintain his defensive impact in all situations is what hurts him. If teams pull him away from the basket on defense, he just doesn't have enough impact on a series. If he was a quicker more mobile defender and could maintain his impact across more situations, he would have a better case. Mitchell, unlike Gobert, can succeed in all situations and is why he is their main team leader.

[Boise To Boston]

Last night we had plenty of chances, but lost focus down the stretch. Again. Not sure what it is they need.

We need more playmaking.  We miss Gordon and we miss IT/KI.  We need a Lonzo, Dragic, Rubio, or someone of that ilk on this team.  Kemba and Smart are not playmakers who lift the team offensively. 

[Celtics2021]

Last night we had plenty of chances, but lost focus down the stretch. Again. Not sure what it is they need.

I think consistency playing with each other would go a long way.  The 9-man rotation the Jazz played last night have missed a combined 15 games this season (out of 351 games), and only 6 players have started a game for them this year.   Those same six players accounted for 97% of starts last year.  In a condensed season with limited practice time, their precision and familiarity stands out.

I'm not sure, unfortunately, that the Celtics will get to such a level this year.  I do hope that in the playoffs, focused practices around a single opponent for 1-2 weeks will be able to mitigate the daily lapses that the team has fallen into, but it's tough to start clicking once the playoffs start.  Not impossible, but tough.

[td450]

Right now we are a mess. Walker is only capable of providing scoring. If he has a good shooting game now, he is a plus starter. If not, he is a minus starter. He's had more poor shooting games than good ones. I think the big fail here was getting Walker to begin with. Whether we wanted it that way or not, we picked Walker over Hayward. It ruined Hayward's role and he was smart to leave.

Strangely enough, losing Hayward exposed Walker's limitations. He was fine as a complimentary scorer, but he can't create shots for lesser players.

Everyone else on the roster is no better than OK at the moment. Smart and Theis are pretty solid role players. We have 4 good young players in RWill, Pritchard, Langford and Nesmith. They all have real potential, but right now, they only play episodically due to a surprising number of injuries and Stevens reticence, and only occasionally give plus performances.

On net, after Tatum and Brown, we have one of the league's weaker rosters.  They are awesome and not the problem.

We have 4 interesting young guys to develop and two solid rotation vets. Grant Williams should be worth keeping too. But we shouldn't think that such a group is enough to do anything as is. Its pretty impressive that Tatum and Brown will keep us slightly over .500 with such little help. I think they are going to both get better.

One more starter quality player is pretty critical. If we can come up with someone that can play as a two way big wing/pf, or as a playmaking point with some size that can defend, we have to do it. And we have to develop our younger players.

Stop playing Walker, Ojeleye, Teague, Green and Thompson. They are not worth wasting minutes on. Develop younger players. Use picks and one of our 4 younger guys if you can get a plus starter at the point or PF spot. Otherwise, we will be as good as those 4 guys become. They are all capable of being quite good. Just not right now.