Gasper: Beal for Brown trade proposal. Yes or No? (poll)

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Beal and Brown don’t even play the same position. Beal is a point guard and Brown is a 3&D wing, and arguably the best one in the NBA sans Klay Thompson. Brown’s combination of defense and scoring is more valuable in today’s NBA than Beal’s extra scoring is.

[keevsnick]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

[Tr1boy]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

Kyrie Irving is a mediocre defender

Harden is decent but nothing great

So how are they winning?

[Vermont Green]

I see fair value being something like Brown and Pritchard for Beal.  Maybe we even have to add a future 1st.  Any more than that and I pass just on the value comparison.

Say that deal is done in the off season.  Beal and Walker are not a good pairing so then we have to move Walker.  If Walker continues to play well, he will have some trade value but it is not like we are going to get a true star, 3rd option back, I don't think.

So our big 3 of Tatum, Brown, Walker becomes a big 2 of Beal and Tatum plus whatever additional depth we can get for Walker.

I like Beal.  I think he has shown that he is a star in the game.  Certainly right there with Damian Lillard or any other guard I can think of not named Curry or Harden.  But I don't see a trade like this moving us in the right direction.

[Tr1boy]

I see fair value being something like Brown and Pritchard for Beal.  Maybe we even have to add a future 1st.  Any more than that and I pass just on the value comparison.

Say that deal is done in the off season.  Beal and Walker are not a good pairing so then we have to move Walker.  If Walker continues to play well, he will have some trade value but it is not like we are going to get a true star, 3rd option back, I don't think.

So our big 3 of Tatum, Brown, Walker becomes a big 2 of Beal and Tatum plus whatever additional depth we can get for Walker.

I like Beal.  I think he has shown that he is a star in the game.  Certainly right there with Damian Lillard or any other guard I can think of not named Curry or Harden.  But I don't see a trade like this moving us in the right direction.

If Celtics trade for Collins also

Theis
Collins
Tatum
Beal
Smart

Would be more functional

[Vermont Green]

I see fair value being something like Brown and Pritchard for Beal.  Maybe we even have to add a future 1st.  Any more than that and I pass just on the value comparison.

Say that deal is done in the off season.  Beal and Walker are not a good pairing so then we have to move Walker.  If Walker continues to play well, he will have some trade value but it is not like we are going to get a true star, 3rd option back, I don't think.

So our big 3 of Tatum, Brown, Walker becomes a big 2 of Beal and Tatum plus whatever additional depth we can get for Walker.

I like Beal.  I think he has shown that he is a star in the game.  Certainly right there with Damian Lillard or any other guard I can think of not named Curry or Harden.  But I don't see a trade like this moving us in the right direction.

If Celtics trade for Collins also

Theis
Collins
Tatum
Beal
Smart

Would be more functional

So that is two supplemental moves you need to do.  First get Beal, then get Collins, then trade Walker.  All to go from a big 3 of Tatum, Brown, Walker to Tatum, Beal, Collins, while giving up some picks and depth.  Beal is good, that is known, but I am just not sure how good Collins is.  I am not sure Beal and Collins is better than Brown and Walker.  We do need a big and Collins does give us that.

[Moranis]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

Kyrie Irving is a mediocre defender

Harden is decent but nothing great

So how are they winning?

They are better offensive players than Beal.  Far more efficient scorers, better passers, better rebounders, etc.  And it isn't like either one has won a ton without another star player next to them. 

Beal is a nice solid #2 type player.  That is all he is.  I have no idea where this idea came from that he is a superstar that can take a team over the top.  He has never done that in his career and has been on truly bad teams when he is the main guy. 

[blink]

No way I trade Brown for Beal, even straight up.  Brown is younger, a better two way player, is more efficient scoring the ball.  I feel like it would be a major mistake to trade Brown or Tatum for Beal.  We think we have ball movement issues now? 

We have two all star wings.  Build around them in a complimentary way.  I feel like Brown and Tatum would take a step back with a player like Beal thrown in the mix.  We need a big who is athletic and can open up the lane by shooting 3s.  A point guard that is a great ball handler and distributer (who can hit the 3 as well) and another 3-D wing.  We might have 2 of the 3 on the roster right now (PP and Nesmith) but it will be awhile til we really know.

[tstorey_97]

Interesting debate. Beal is one of the top offensive players in the game.

Losing Brown hurts the Celtic's defense. Auerbach would never make a move that would hurt the defense. I understand the NBA has changed, but, overall in athletics, defense wins championships. The Buccaneers' defense ran the Chiefs out of the gym.

Kevin Garnett was the"center" of the Celtic's defense, Cowens, Russell, Parish...all of these defensive centric players have all the rings.

When the Celtics or any team has rhythm and is scoring in transition it is from their defensive play.

Walker for Beal sounds fantastic unless you are Tommy Sheppard.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Beal is 20-25 point per game player on a well functioning team that is good. He’s enjoying the Kevin Love in Minnesota effect right now.

Case and point: Beal’s stats in 2016-2017.

I’m a huge Beal fan but not on this Celtics squad and not for Jaylen. We need less volume scorers not more.

[keevsnick]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

Kyrie Irving is a mediocre defender

Harden is decent but nothing great

So how are they winning?

The answer is...

A) neither of those guys have ever won anything unless they were playing next to an MVP level top 5 guy like Lebron and the two of them together won't win this year with out Durant. Also

B) the nets may still not win this year even with 3 of those guys all whom may be better offensive players then either beal or tatum.

So kind of proving my point.

[Tr1boy]

Beal is 20-25 point per game player on a well functioning team that is good. He’s enjoying the Kevin Love in Minnesota effect right now.

Case and point: Beal’s stats in 2016-2017.

I’m a huge Beal fan but not on this Celtics squad and not for Jaylen. We need less volume scorers not more.

Beal is not a volume shooter

He is efficient for a guard. 3s could a tad better but he can still make it late in games

Brown right now runs into three players waiting for him. Or shoots stinkers off the rim at times.

He is a much better 1st half scorer. 

Beal is an electric 2nd half scorer. 

[Tr1boy]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

Kyrie Irving is a mediocre defender

Harden is decent but nothing great

So how are they winning?

They are better offensive players than Beal.  Far more efficient scorers, better passers, better rebounders, etc.  And it isn't like either one has won a ton without another star player next to them. 

Beal is a nice solid #2 type player.  That is all he is.  I have no idea where this idea came from that he is a superstar that can take a team over the top.  He has never done that in his career and has been on truly bad teams when he is the main guy.

Disagree

One can argue Irving and Beal are about the same offensively

Beal has size and vertical leap advantage also

Harden is a black hole at times. Talented but he is a major ball stopper

Look Beal can be also. But he also does pass the ball and does not need to force bad shots.  This is why I like him.  He takes good shots usually or gets to the foul line

[nickagneta]

My opinion

Just Keep Jaylen Brown!

[Moranis]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

 

Ya Beal has by most defensive metrics been one of the single worst guards defensively in the league the last few years. I also hate his fit with kemba.

Kyrie Irving is a mediocre defender

Harden is decent but nothing great

So how are they winning?

They are better offensive players than Beal.  Far more efficient scorers, better passers, better rebounders, etc.  And it isn't like either one has won a ton without another star player next to them. 

Beal is a nice solid #2 type player.  That is all he is.  I have no idea where this idea came from that he is a superstar that can take a team over the top.  He has never done that in his career and has been on truly bad teams when he is the main guy.

Disagree

One can argue Irving and Beal are about the same offensively

Beal has size and vertical leap advantage also

Harden is a black hole at times. Talented but he is a major ball stopper

Look Beal can be also. But he also does pass the ball and does not need to force bad shots.  This is why I like him.  He takes good shots usually or gets to the foul line

except statistically none of what you said is actually true.  I mean this year Beal has a TS% of 59.9% which is very good but not elite.  Harden for example hasn't been below 59.8% since his rookie year and 9 of his 12 seasons he has been well above 60%.  That is elite.  Irving is closer to Beal offensively, but over the last 5 years, Irving has been at 59.6 while Beal has been at 58.3 and Irving has been better in each of the last 4 seasons, including this one.  But that is the only thing Beal is even close in.  Harden (especially) and even Irving have much higher AST% than Beal.  Harden and Irving are better rebounders.  Irving turns it over less (Harden doesn't, but that is more a function of him being an actual PG).

Beal is quite simply not on the level of Irving offensively and is no where near Harden offensively.  So even though Irving's defense may actually be as bad as Beal's (I'm not saying it is, but they are close), Irving is a better player overall.  Harden isn't even in the same class as either Irving or Beal, he is much higher up as he is quite simply a better offensive and defensive player than either.