Author Topic: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?  (Read 2228 times)

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Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2021, 01:36:07 AM »

Offline Somebody

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false
To be fair it isn't like Tatum goes full Reggie Miller in the playoffs - he either retains his RS efficacy (which is impressive, don't get me wrong) or suffers a slight dip.

Btw did SGA really fail in the playoffs last year? He only really suffered a dip in scoring volume against one of the best defensive teams in the bubble, which to me is similarly impressive to what Tatum did in the playoffs last year. He's obviously not on Tatum's level as a player though :laugh:
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2021, 01:36:56 AM »

Offline Somebody

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They say the trade deadline is silly season. I disagree. In Boston, it's silly season, at least for the fans, when their team goes on a losing streak.

I can't wait for this team to play better so all these blow it up trades, trade our best player trades, trade a dollar bill and get 55 cents back trades, fire Stevens calls, and fire Ainge calls end.

The easiest and best way to turn things around is already in that Celtics locker room. Get everyone healthy. Get the rotations set. Let the chemistry be re-established. Refocus the team defensively. And I think they go on a run and get better. Much, much better.

Call me a Stevens apologist for thinking this. Call me an Ainge apologist.....a green goggled fan.....an unknowledgeable fan when it comes to trades.....Doesn't matter to me. That's the way this team gets better. Not trading 7 guys for 7 other guys and picks and taking a massive step backwards by trading a cornerstone.

#JKJT Just keep Jayson Tatum
#JKJB Just keep Jaylen Brown

It's really that simple.
^this, although I think we need depth pretty badly.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2021, 04:01:14 AM »

Offline gouki88

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false
To be fair it isn't like Tatum goes full Reggie Miller in the playoffs - he either retains his RS efficacy (which is impressive, don't get me wrong) or suffers a slight dip.

Btw did SGA really fail in the playoffs last year? He only really suffered a dip in scoring volume against one of the best defensive teams in the bubble, which to me is similarly impressive to what Tatum did in the playoffs last year. He's obviously not on Tatum's level as a player though :laugh:
While true, the only year Tatum hasn't improved his game significantly come playoff time was 18-19, which I regard as an anomaly due to the Kypocalypse.

I think he did. His efficiency inside the arc went down considerably (which is where he does his most damage) and his usage dropped a huge amount. IMO he shirked his responsibilities as the #1 offensive option
Fire Brad

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2021, 05:19:15 AM »

Online knuckleballer

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Trade Jayson Tatum for a pu pu platter?  No way in hell.


Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2021, 07:17:40 AM »

Offline boscel33

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It's almost a money ball type move, replace Giambi's output with three players.

People are giving up on Tatum far too soon.  Has he looked great since coming back from Covid?  Not IMO!

That said, those who have had it say there are lingering effects.  He may not be great again this year.  He might just need rest.  Problem?  We're not deep or healthy enough so their hand is forced.

I had Grant as my #1 on another thread, I think I'm changing to Barnes, just in case Tatum needs extended time away.
While the early bird catches the worm, the second mouse gets the cheese!

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2021, 11:05:39 AM »

Offline td450

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false

This is a very weird take.

SGA is currently scoring at 22.8 ppg .506/.407/.783 and averaging 6.5 assists per game. He's a bit younger than Tatum. He's been impressive in the playoffs, and his assists to turnovers is better than Tatum's is. He's a true guard, so yeah, Tatum is a more accomplished rebounder.

It is irrational to look at him as anything other than a legit cornerstone player. Most would agree that Tatum is the more talented player, but not by enough to dismiss the comparison out of hand.

Tatum is on the bubble. He's got the potential to be an MVP level player, but he's currently a ball-stopper with very average court vision, and almost no sense of game management. When things aren't going well, his only response is to take a tough shot. That's not the easiest fix. We are obviously going to keep him and this was just a thought experiment, but they better adjust this roster before he gets too set in his ways.


Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2021, 11:35:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false

This is a very weird take.

SGA is currently scoring at 22.8 ppg .506/.407/.783 and averaging 6.5 assists per game. He's a bit younger than Tatum. He's been impressive in the playoffs, and his assists to turnovers is better than Tatum's is. He's a true guard, so yeah, Tatum is a more accomplished rebounder.

It is irrational to look at him as anything other than a legit cornerstone player. Most would agree that Tatum is the more talented player, but not by enough to dismiss the comparison out of hand.

Tatum is on the bubble. He's got the potential to be an MVP level player, but he's currently a ball-stopper with very average court vision, and almost no sense of game management. When things aren't going well, his only response is to take a tough shot. That's not the easiest fix. We are obviously going to keep him and this was just a thought experiment, but they better adjust this roster before he gets too set in his ways.
Tatum is currently better than SGA and Tatum has a higher ceiling.  SGA is a very good prospect though.  Probably similar in ceiling to Brown, but he isn't Tatum.  And the problem with the thought process is it wasn't just Tatum for Collins, SGA, and a bunch of picks, it was trading half of the team and no real analysis on what picks.

I think you could make a reasonable trade proposal that would be a decent thought experiment that would look something like this

Boston - Collins, SGA, 21 MIA or HOU 1st, 22 PHO 1st, 23 DEN 1st
OKC - Tatum, G. Williams, 21 ATL 2nd
Atlanta - Edwards, 22 LAC 1st, 23 MIA 1st

Now that is an interesting thought experiment.  It doesn't involve half the team.  I love Tatum, but I'd at least consider that. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2021, 11:35:39 AM »

Online mrceltics2013

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Blow up the whole team and get Dame, Gannis, and KAT. 🤣

Goodbye JT, JB, and Kemba.

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2021, 12:28:47 PM »

Offline boscel33

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false

This is a very weird take.

SGA is currently scoring at 22.8 ppg .506/.407/.783 and averaging 6.5 assists per game. He's a bit younger than Tatum. He's been impressive in the playoffs, and his assists to turnovers is better than Tatum's is. He's a true guard, so yeah, Tatum is a more accomplished rebounder.

It is irrational to look at him as anything other than a legit cornerstone player. Most would agree that Tatum is the more talented player, but not by enough to dismiss the comparison out of hand.

Tatum is on the bubble. He's got the potential to be an MVP level player, but he's currently a ball-stopper with very average court vision, and almost no sense of game management. When things aren't going well, his only response is to take a tough shot. That's not the easiest fix. We are obviously going to keep him and this was just a thought experiment, but they better adjust this roster before he gets too set in his ways.
Tatum is currently better than SGA and Tatum has a higher ceiling.  SGA is a very good prospect though.  Probably similar in ceiling to Brown, but he isn't Tatum.  And the problem with the thought process is it wasn't just Tatum for Collins, SGA, and a bunch of picks, it was trading half of the team and no real analysis on what picks.

I think you could make a reasonable trade proposal that would be a decent thought experiment that would look something like this

Boston - Collins, SGA, 21 MIA or HOU 1st, 22 PHO 1st, 23 DEN 1st
OKC - Tatum, G. Williams, 21 ATL 2nd
Atlanta - Edwards, 22 LAC 1st, 23 MIA 1st

Now that is an interesting thought experiment.  It doesn't involve half the team.  I love Tatum, but I'd at least consider that.

That's an intriguing idea, still leaving Kemba to possibly use as a chip.
While the early bird catches the worm, the second mouse gets the cheese!

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2021, 01:16:28 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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no need for trading core players. We might have a high enough draft pick that lands us SGA. Then next offseason Atlanta might S&T to us Collins for some rookie contracts and picks in the future.
Keep the course lol.
There is no way we will have a pick that lands SGA.  He isn't Tatum, but he is a high value asset.

SGA is absolutely Tatum or possibly even more. Hes a huge impact player on both sides of the court, makes his team mates better, and is getting better faster than Tatum is currently. SGA is a future all star.
SGA is absolutely none of these things. He is not at all an impact player on defence - he is neutral at absolute best. His jump year 2 to 3 was smaller than Tatum's year 2 to year 3 jump, despite SGA being only a few months younger than Tatum. SGA is a worse scorer, rebounder, and shooter, and is a worse defender. He also turns it over more despite a lower usage, and was a total failure in the playoffs - a place where Tatum has only ever lifted his game.

Everything in your post is categorically false

This is a very weird take.

SGA is currently scoring at 22.8 ppg .506/.407/.783 and averaging 6.5 assists per game. He's a bit younger than Tatum. He's been impressive in the playoffs, and his assists to turnovers is better than Tatum's is. He's a true guard, so yeah, Tatum is a more accomplished rebounder.

It is irrational to look at him as anything other than a legit cornerstone player. Most would agree that Tatum is the more talented player, but not by enough to dismiss the comparison out of hand.

Tatum is on the bubble. He's got the potential to be an MVP level player, but he's currently a ball-stopper with very average court vision, and almost no sense of game management. When things aren't going well, his only response is to take a tough shot. That's not the easiest fix. We are obviously going to keep him and this was just a thought experiment, but they better adjust this roster before he gets too set in his ways.
Tatum is currently better than SGA and Tatum has a higher ceiling.  SGA is a very good prospect though.  Probably similar in ceiling to Brown, but he isn't Tatum.  And the problem with the thought process is it wasn't just Tatum for Collins, SGA, and a bunch of picks, it was trading half of the team and no real analysis on what picks.

I think you could make a reasonable trade proposal that would be a decent thought experiment that would look something like this

Boston - Collins, SGA, 21 MIA or HOU 1st, 22 PHO 1st, 23 DEN 1st
OKC - Tatum, G. Williams, 21 ATL 2nd
Atlanta - Edwards, 22 LAC 1st, 23 MIA 1st

Now that is an interesting thought experiment.  It doesn't involve half the team.  I love Tatum, but I'd at least consider that.

That's an intriguing idea, still leaving Kemba to possibly use as a chip.

sorry but no its not. Who is going to take that contract + knee health

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2021, 01:18:56 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Blow up the whole team and get Dame, Gannis, and KAT. 🤣

Goodbye JT, JB, and Kemba.

Dame and Giannis duo would be filthy

but likely won't happen in Celts uniforms

Perhaps under Trailblazer setting if Giannis asked for a trade in a year or two

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2021, 01:26:33 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Not in a million years would I make that deal. 

There are only two players in the league right now that I would trade Tatum for, and they are Giannis and Luka.  Anyone else, I'd hang up on the spot. 

Nope

Tatum is a good 1 on 1 talent. But there is no other way to put it.  He is a ball stopper.  Ball stop + slows the pace to a grinding halt.

Because he is one of only three guys on the entire team that is capable of creating his own shot, and the other two (Kemba and Brown) have missed a number or games. 

Team almost blew a 27 pt lead vs Hawks.   Blew 24 pt lead yesterday due to that horrific 3rd quarter.  In both cases Tatum was the main ball handler and/or ended up shooting the ball

Tatum was the one with the ball in those scenarios because he is the go-to guy and #1 scoring option on this team. 

No lead is safe with this team anymore.   Opposing teams are instructed to pressure Tatum/and or double team him.  And have a fighting chance to erase any kind of double digit leads

Since the Heat series (where they also did this to him),  teams have taken notice

The question is, will Tatum be able to identify and break through this.   Or won't because he has to meet his stat quota

Tatum is 22 years old.  In the space of 3 seasons he went from being a rookie, to being a key part of the team, to being the teams #1 scoring option.  That's a massive change in role / responsibility, especially for a player as young as him. 

Last year he established himself as a genuine star in this league, and he kinda caught a lot of teams by surprise.  Now teams know about him, he's not a secret anymore.  Every time Boston plays another team, Tatum is the focal point of their opponent's defence.  That's a very different scenario to the one he was in this time last season, and it's going to take him some time to adjust to that and to learn to counter it.

He's already started to make those adjustments slowly.  He's improving his passing/playmaking ability in a huge way.  his Assist % has gone from 10.0% in his second year, to 14.5% last year, to 20.9% this year.  And even though his assist percentage and usage rate have gone up by a huge margin, his turnover rate hasn't changed at all - in fact at 9.8% it's pretty much the lowest of his career.

So it's clear that Tatum is learning, adjusting, and growing as a player.  But he's a 22 year kid in his 4th season - people should probably be realistic and cut the kid some slack. I cant even imagine the having to deal with the type of pressure and expectations at 22 that Tatum has on him right now. 

And it's hardly unusual that Tatum has the ball in his hands a lot - he's the team's go-to scorer.  That's to be expected. 

Tatum is averaging 25, 7 and 5 with decent efficiency and he's a well above average defender,.  And he's 22 years old.  If anybody came to this forum 3 or 4 years ago and told everybody we'd have a < 25 year old guy averaging 25 PPG and playing quality defence we'd have all lost our minds with excitement.  We have two of them!   

I understand the frustration fans feel with the team at the movement, hell I feel it too.  But I don't think it's fair to dump that frustration on guys like Tatum and Brown.  They are kids, and between the two of them they taking on something like 50% of the team's production.  They are under immense pressure and they are doing all they can to carry the load.  Lets show them some appreciation. 

Tatum and Brown are the two biggest, bright spots on this team right now, and are both well beyond the production level that any of us likely expected them to be at right now.  it's not their fault that the rest of the roster (bar Kemba) is made up of rookies and scraps. 

Just imagine what this team's record would be right now if Tatum wasn't on the roster.  Because I assure you it would be a LOT worse.

Re: Trade idea: Would you trade Tatum for John Collins and SGA?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2021, 01:33:21 AM »

Offline mainevent

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Dumbest thread I've seen in a while....
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